Mighty AC Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 The far left has simply seized on this as an excuse, as they usually do, to absolve Islam of any connection or blame. To be fair though both the far right and left are disingenuous in their portrayal of any event involving Muslims. The right unfairly links religion to everything negative action committed by a Muslim, whereas the left unfairly removes religion from the equation. Of course the opposite often applies when dealing with Christianity. There is no evidence whatever that the individual had any kind of mental illness. Maybe we should treat religious belief and woo in general like mental illness. We have programs and resources dedicated to undoing the cycle of indoctrinated racism, violence and abuse. Why not religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I didn't want to start this topic yesterday, because the gunman's identity was still unknown, but it was already suspected to be a hate crime. The "parking dispute" excuse, seems to be coming from the killer's wife.....as if it's okay to kill three people if they take your parking spot or something! Care to point out where anyone said that? As for the rest of your long-winded rant about atheism... kind of off topic. If you want to start a thread about atheism, feel free to do so. This one happens to be about 3 people being killed by someone over a parking dispute. To be fair though both the far right and left are disingenuous in their portrayal of any event involving Muslims. The right unfairly links religion to everything negative action committed by a Muslim, whereas the left unfairly removes religion from the equation. Of course the opposite often applies when dealing with Christianity. Which is pretty much why it's impossible to have any kind of rational discourse with a partisan of either stripe. Logic or reality doesn't enter into things. Maybe we should treat religious belief and woo in general like mental illness. We have programs and resources dedicated to undoing the cycle of indoctrinated racism, violence and abuse. Why not religion? Or political party affiliation, for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I find the double standard that the politicians and media have quite interesting. Muslims kill atheists while yelling Allahu Akbar. -> Media tells us it has nothing to do with Islam. An atheist kills 3 muslims. -> Media tells us it is a hate crime that is motivated by hatred of Islam. Sure but when it comes to double standards... If this was a muslim that shot a bunch of other Americans or Canadians it would be a massive story. The government would be drafting legislation with words like "freedom" or "patriot" in the title, that lets them read peoples emails or conduct warrantless surveillance, and millions of spineless sycophantic cowards would be cheerleading them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Out here in the real world (no equations necessary), every time a Muslim does anything bad, we get another round of Islamic extremism, and all 1.5 billion Muslims are expected to apologize and make another declaration that they will root out their extreme thinkers to turn them over to police authorities!* No. That's your Ben Affleck-like / 'progressivism' mental delusion making you interpret reality that way. Reuters news service and the major newspapers that show up on a google search inform us that this terrorist's motives are "disputed." More like the motives are unknown. There is no manifesto. No video explaining the motives. No people witnessing him decry his motives during the attack. All I have seen are some facebook comments describing that he was a vocal atheist that disliked religion. But of course the media has instantly jumped on this as the explanation. Furthermore, according to the media, the attack was due to racism because apparently 'atheists' and 'muslims' classify as races now. atheism describing a lack of belief/ not a belief system, nobody can commit a genocide or murder on behalf of atheism, to be vapid and shallow ideological beliefs. There is no doctrine of atheism to justify killing in the name of atheism. is the problem that both cyber and real world atheists who want to have an atheist - non-theistic identity are almost all men, and almost all white and middle class! There are atheists of all races, genders, sexual orientations, etc. As for your claim that the vast majority of atheists are while males, I want to see evidence to back it up. This seems like a ploy to associate atheism with whiteness and maleness and thereby discredit atheism via guilt by association since white males are the most demonized group in western society today. we are informed by some psychological researchers that female test subjects will skew towards intuitive understandings and decisions more so than men. I have a question for you. If this is the case, then could these neurological differences help explain some of the 'gender wage gap'? Or would that violate the doctrine of progressivism? Online, I've noticed many of the worst misogynists are often atheists. I think you are confusing misogyny with advocation for gender equality (example: Karen Straughan). Edited February 12, 2015 by -1=e^ipi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 There is no doctrine of atheism to justify killing in the name of atheism. Nor does Christianity. The opposite actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 The problem here is obviously Islam. If these three young people were not Muslim then they wouldn't have been shot. It was their choice to be Muslim you know, so it is their fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Care to point out where anyone said that? His wife said it...pay attention! As for the rest of your long-winded rant about atheism... kind of off topic. If you want to start a thread about atheism, feel free to do so. This one happens to be about 3 people being killed by someone over a parking dispute. Every time a Muslim kills anywhere at any time, it's because of his religion, so since this guy is an atheist anti-theist (meaning actively opposed to religion), why can't his atheism be examined as a possible motive for killing three people for no good reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 To be fair though both the far right and left are disingenuous in their portrayal of any event involving Muslims. The right unfairly links religion to everything negative action committed by a Muslim, whereas the left unfairly removes religion from the equation. Of course the opposite often applies when dealing with Christianity. No, the left does not remove links to religion; just demands that it be recognized that Christianity, or more appropriately - Christendom is the religion with the greatest military and economic power in the world today...not Islam! As well, Muslims in the west are minorities who are often exposed to the same kinds of hate crime attacks that other minorities can face. This isn't the first time that Muslims...or even people suspected of being Muslims (like Sikh victims of crimes) have been targeted because of their religion and ethnicity. The left also demands that full context be applied to these snapshot stories of what this or that Muslim did, or this Muslim terrorist group etc. Right now - today, the United States of America is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, while most of its violence is excused as fighting a nebulous War on Terror. The Islamic terrorist groups like ISIS or Boko Haram, are not the beginning of a story. They are a development in modern times that has been inspired by elements of foreign encroachment and exploitation, and the removal of any democratic means to remove foreign-sponsored dictators they are saddled with for generations. Terrorism is asymmetrical warfare, and it is not all that more disgusting and revolting than conventional warfare! The only difference is that it is in the media spotlight, while the hundreds of casualties to drone-bombings and uranium-enriched mortar shells are not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Terrorism is asymmetrical warfare, and it is not all that more disgusting and revolting than conventional warfare! The only difference is that it is in the media spotlight, while the hundreds of casualties to drone-bombings and uranium-enriched mortar shells are not! That's not true. If it was true the "terrorists" would be going after military targets. They specifically go after civilians for the shock value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 That's not true. If it was true the "terrorists" would be going after military targets. They specifically go after civilians for the shock value. We don't hear as much about their attacks on military targets, which is the bulk of the war that allowed them to take over so much of Iraq and Syria. Certainly, beheading civilians carries a lot of shock value, but the ISIS terrorist attack that has scared the crap out of the Saudi oligarchs was the cross-border attack they made on a Saudi convoy that killed a top Saudi general a few weeks ago. That's got them all riled up about building a "maginot line" type of border wall across the desert to prevent attacks coming from Iraq. Once again though, the obvious blowback is ironic and almost laughable, since ISIS and Al Qaeda are largely products of Saudi designs to attack their enemies. So, they live in fear of having them come back at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 No, the left does not remove links to religion; just demands that it be recognized that Christianity, or more appropriately - Christendom is the religion with the greatest military and economic power in the world today...not Islam! As well, Muslims in the west are minorities who are often exposed to the same kinds of hate crime attacks that other minorities can face. This isn't the first time that Muslims...or even people suspected of being Muslims (like Sikh victims of crimes) have been targeted because of their religion and ethnicity.Defending minorities is admirable and important, but the left often goes beyond the defense of individuals into Islam apologetic territory. Acknowledging the role of religion in unethical and violent acts, or the high number of adherents that condone them is not an attack on peaceful Muslims. Just like condemning the actions of Putin is not a slight against Russian Canadians. The left also demands that full context be applied to these snapshot stories of what this or that Muslim did, or this Muslim terrorist group etc. Right now - today, the United States of America is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, while most of its violence is excused as fighting a nebulous War on Terror. The Islamic terrorist groups like ISIS or Boko Haram, are not the beginning of a story. They are a development in modern times that has been inspired by elements of foreign encroachment and exploitation, and the removal of any democratic means to remove foreign-sponsored dictators they are saddled with for generations. Terrorism is asymmetrical warfare, and it is not all that more disgusting and revolting than conventional warfare! The only difference is that it is in the media spotlight, while the hundreds of casualties to drone-bombings and uranium-enriched mortar shells are not!Agreed. Governments use fear and the 'us vs them' patriotism attitude to further their own agenda, economic or otherwise. Harper is attempting to give the state more power over us right now, doing just that. The (mainly) US has been charged with locking up access to oil for western economies for some time. I hope that the inevitable shift away from fossil fuels will signal an end to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Sure but when it comes to double standards... If this was a muslim that shot a bunch of other Americans or Canadians it would be a massive story. The government would be drafting legislation with words like "freedom" or "patriot" in the title, that lets them read peoples emails or conduct warrantless surveillance, and millions of spineless sycophantic cowards would be cheerleading them. Exactly! If a Muslim uses his car to run down a soldier, it's a terrorist attack and we need more of our rights and freedoms taken away for our collective protection from the Islamic threat. If it was anyone else....it was just some a**hole who killed a soldier...end of story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Nor does Christianity. The opposite actually. Have you actually read the bible? There are all sorts of reasons why different people should be killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) The right unfairly links religion to everything negative action committed by a Muslim, whereas the left unfairly removes religion from the equation. What about people like David Cameron who claim that the killing of Lee Rigby had 'nothing to do with Islam' and that ISIS are not even 'muslim'. Harper has made similar concepts? More like on the right you have religious apologists that don't want to associate anything bad with religion and on the left you have cultural relativists who think criticizing any religion that isn't christianity is racist. I don't think this is a left-right issue, because the mainstream position across the political spectrum is to hide from reality. The people that do challenge this come from all sorts of political positions (Bill Maher to Tarek Fatah to Geert Wilders), but all of them are in the minority. Sure but when it comes to double standards... If this was a muslim that shot a bunch of other Americans or Canadians it would be a massive story. The government would be drafting legislation with words like "freedom" or "patriot" in the title More like the cities of Toronto and New York would be twittering about how they need to stop the non-existent 'counter attacks' and politicians from Obama to David Cameron to Harper would be going on about how it has nothing to do with Islam or Islamism even if the shooter was yelling allahu ackbar while killing people and released a video online clearly explaining their motive. All of the progressives would give themselves a pat on the back for not being 'racist'. Edited February 12, 2015 by -1=e^ipi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Exactly! If a Muslim uses his car to run down a soldier, it's a terrorist attack and we need more of our rights and freedoms taken away for our collective protection from the Islamic threat. If it was anyone else....it was just some a**hole who killed a soldier...end of story! That's because you're ignoring the loooooong pattern of violence in the name of jihad over decades. Some a-hole is usually just random. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Have you actually read the bible? There are all sorts of reasons why different people should be killed. Not coming from Jesus. Edited February 12, 2015 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Nor does Christianity. The opposite actually. It's in one of your ten commandments. Thou shall keep the sabbath holy. And 'thou shall not kill' is a mistranslation. It is closer to 'though shall not murder'. The bible commands people to kill those that work on the sabbath It doesn't count as murder of course because the person was violating the sabbath. Numbers 15:32. Edited February 12, 2015 by -1=e^ipi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) It's in one of your ten commandments. Thou shall keep the sabbath holy. And 'thou shall not kill' is a mistranslation. It is closer to 'though shall not murder'. The bible commands people to kill those that work on the sabbath It doesn't count as murder of course because the person was violating the sabbath. Numbers 15:32. Again, those are Jewish laws, Jesus is constantly saying "You have heard X, I now tell you Y." I doubt atheists care too much what's in the Bible actually says or what Christians do or don't believe. But if the Religion is based on following what Christ said, he called for peace at every turn. In fact Christians probably shouldn't even aspire to levels of power either. Edited February 12, 2015 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Not coming from Jesus. Jesus was hardly a messenger of peace... although, that's an excellent way that Christianity was brought into the secular world and forced to be more compassionate and less violent. Jesus has all sorts of things to say about how great it was when God killed everyone... He mentions that punishments will be worse for cities of nonbelievers than what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah.... He says he has not come to replace the old laws... Yes, there is a lot of contradictory stuff in the bible, which is how it can be cherry picked for the less violent things. But, when they feel it's necessary, Christians turn to the other stuff when it suits them. Never mind the belief that when Jesus shows up again, LOOK OUT!! That will be some good violence!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 /muslims-north-carolina-funerals Hate crime or not, 3 decent and innocent Americans are dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 His wife said it...pay attention! Every time a Muslim kills anywhere at any time, it's because of his religion, so since this guy is an atheist anti-theist (meaning actively opposed to religion), why can't his atheism be examined as a possible motive for killing three people for no good reason? Muslim's kill people for all the same reasons people of other religions do. They get jumped on when their inspiration/motivation was clearly religious, which isn't too difficult since they usually say outright that this was their motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) No, the left does not remove links to religion; just demands that it be recognized that Christianity, or more appropriately - Christendom is the religion with the greatest military and economic power in the world today...not Islam! Okay. So what? Irrelevant. As well, Muslims in the west are minorities who are often exposed to the same kinds of hate crime attacks that other minorities can face. How often? I don't remember the last time any Muslim was killed specifically because of their religion, though that happens fairly often to Jews - mostly by Muslims. I wouldn't say the 'hate crimes' perpetrated on Muslims has reached anything like that for Jews or Blacks or Gays. This isn't the first time that Muslims...or even people suspected of being Muslims (like Sikh victims of crimes) have been targeted because of their religion and ethnicity. Usually pretty minor, and we don't know they were targeted for their religion this time either. left also demands that full context be applied to these snapshot stories of what this or that Muslim did, or this Muslim terrorist group etc. Right now - today, the United States of America is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, while most of its violence is excused as fighting a nebulous War on Terror. This is sorry assed left wing bullshit. There have been over ten thousand terrorist acts committed by Muslims since 9/11. Most of the victims have been innocent, helpless civilians. The US targets violent people, terrorist leaders, and you people on the fringes refuse to make any sort of distinction there. The Islamic terrorist groups like ISIS or Boko Haram, are not the beginning of a story. They are a development in modern times that has been inspired by elements of foreign encroachment and exploitation, and the removal of any democratic means to remove foreign-sponsored dictators they are saddled with for generations. Bullshit. None of the terrorist groups involved was inspired by 'foreign encroachment or exploitation'. They were inspired by Allah. And most of the people they kill are fellow Muslims. Don't give me any crap about Boko Haram being outraged at foreign exploitation when their main targets are helpless villagers. Same goes for ISIS, who mostly target Muslims or religious minorities. You're simply trying to make excuses for them and blame it all on the evil west. Edited February 13, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Have you actually read the bible? There are all sorts of reasons why different people should be killed. Yep, but no modern Christian leaders will support that. Taint the same in Islam. Edited February 13, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Not coming from Jesus.JC and the Funky Bunch tell followers to obey the old testament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 JC and the Funky Bunch tell followers to obey the old testament. I think the most obvious thing that was preached by him was peace and non violence. Not saying followers listen or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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