WIP Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Posted January 24, 2015 Hell yes! I'd live in a warmer climate too! With climate change, we're going to have the opposite problem: millions of Americans fleeing the Southwest as it dries out and crossing our borders in droves.....then they'll start planting flags and claiming it was their country all along! Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
WestCoastRunner Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 With climate change, we're going to have the opposite problem: millions of Americans fleeing the Southwest as it dries out and crossing our borders in droves.....then they'll start planting flags and claiming it was their country all along! You know what? That has been a concern of mine. Seriously! They want our water and our oil! Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Bonam Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 All of society is getting messed up. Look at Jupiter Ascending and its ridiculous message of being "born better" . If that is where we are at these days then society is definitely going down hill... You know, I hadn't heard of this movie. But if it has a message that annoys people, I guess I better watch it Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Speaking of Jupiter Ascending, there is a triple moon shadow transit in progress right now....and it's free ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WIP Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Posted January 24, 2015 You know what? That has been a concern of mine. Seriously! They want our water and our oil! Sounds like it's time to start building that border fence. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Sounds like it's time to start building that border fence. But what about all that cross border shopping...to the real Targets....hell...Super Targets ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WestCoastRunner Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Sounds like it's time to start building that border fence. It's never too late. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
August1991 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 If you're not aware of the absurdities in that short paragraph: if the CEO of Target was concerned about the long term viability of the Company, he would have done what was necessary to avoid the disaster caused by incompetence....poor supply networks, costly overruns and delayed openings of stores. If the company was a success, then he should have received more compensation than for its failure....but I'm not a CEO or a member of a corporate board of directors...the realm where you win whether you earn or lose profits.And WIP, you are not aware of how investors make their decisions. WIP, do you buy a car or house without thought to its resale value - possibly decades into the future? Anyone buying a share, believe me, thinks about its resale value in the same way. And CEOs too, if the Boards of Director have any sense. Quote
kimmy Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 The good thing about modern so called "free enterprize" is that if you've got enough money or you are well enough connected with the upper echalons of corporate power, you only fail upwards when you screw up! Exhibit A: Target's package for ex-CEO matches package for all 17,600 Canadian workers I think it should be pointed out that this Stienhafel guy was the CEO of the entire company, not its Canadian expansion effort. While the Canadian expansion attempt was an unmitigated disaster, Target as a whole seems to be doing very well in spite of that. Stienhafel resigned in May 2014, and it was not due to the Canadian expansion, but rather due to a massive data security breach in December 2013, in which tens of millions of credit card numbers and tens of millions of shoppers' personal information was put at risk. So I think the whole premise of this thread is a little flawed-- the way it's presented, it is made to look as if Stienhaffel got a $60 million golden parachute for botching Target Canada. In fact, Stienhaffel appears to have been a very successful executive overall. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
kimmy Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) And WIP, you are not aware of how investors make their decisions. WIP, do you buy a car or house without thought to its resale value - possibly decades into the future? Anyone buying a share, believe me, thinks about its resale value in the same way. And CEOs too, if the Boards of Director have any sense. You told me this before, in the thread where we were discussing the fact that Dick Fuld made a half billion dollars in pay and bonuses in the few years leading up to the destruction of Lehmann Brothers. Your contention was that CEOs would operate with the long-term interests of their company in mind. I contended, and continue to, that if you can pocket a half billion dollars in pay and bonuses in the span of a few years by thinking short-term instead of long-term, then you have no motivation to think long-term. Or, to frame this in terms of cars or houses... if some sucker came up to you and offered you an outrageous price for your car RIGHT NOW, why would you possibly give a crap what its resale value is going to be decades in the future? -k Edited January 24, 2015 by kimmy Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Accountability Now Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 Fine then! Tax his severance at 90%. Tell ya what....you find enough people who think the same way you do and get them to vote in the right people that will then change the current laws to the communist approach that you seem to favor and then I will actually take you serious. Until then I have no problem with a CEO of a private company making whatever money the company wants to pay him/her. As long as he is legally earning that money then we have nothing to gripe about no matter how jealous you are. Quote
Ash74 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 It is really none of the public's business how much a private citizen receives from a private company. The share holders have a right to know but it really does not concern me. i have opinions about it but at the end of the day what right do I have to tell Target what to do with their money? Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
Michael Hardner Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 It is really none of the public's business how much a private citizen receives from a private company. The private companies do use government to set labour and salary policies that help them, such as TFW and so on. So the public appears to have some say in the matter. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
WIP Posted January 25, 2015 Author Report Posted January 25, 2015 I think it should be pointed out that this Stienhafel guy was the CEO of the entire company, not its Canadian expansion effort. While the Canadian expansion attempt was an unmitigated disaster, Target as a whole seems to be doing very well in spite of that. It still provides an example of how disaster/gangster capitalism functions today. These corporatists and their investors earn more money by destroying jobs and gutting companies than they do by establishing businesses and growing them! A case in point...since they are both failed presidential candidates in the U.S. are George Romney and his son - Mitt. Both Republicans, George Romney began American Motors, and became Governor of Michigan, and was asked to run for president in 1968 by that now extinct moderate wing of the Republican Party. Mittens on the other hand, earned his fortune as an arbitrager - a disaster capitalist...although rumors fly that his appointment was mostly about patronage and his family and political connections, not his earning value. Regardless, Mitt somehow became Governor of Massachussets when he was pretending to be a moderate Republican, until he reversed polarity to try to become president....which he is still trying to do. What the Romneys' show us is a microcosm of the difference between how tax and business laws and just plain old ethics and morality change from one generation to the next. So, I don't really give a crap about how much Target's CEO has earned, I still want to see him in a jail cell! Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 ... So, I don't really give a crap about how much Target's CEO has earned, I still want to see him in a jail cell! Why would he be in jail cell ? Especially in Hug-a-Thug" Canada ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Ash74 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 The private companies do use government to set labour and salary policies that help them, such as TFW and so on. So the public appears to have some say in the matter. Fair enough but that is for the bare minimum of what a employer must pay. My bonus structure is not discussed with the unionized employee's and is really none of their business. What a CEO gets for a severance is of no concern to me but the catch is a good chunk (not enough some would say) will be taxed Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
Michael Hardner Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 Fair enough but that is for the bare minimum of what a employer must pay. Well... there's more to it than that. There are labour laws, trade laws, copyright & patent & trademark laws, and competition and so on and so on... My bonus structure is not discussed with the unionized employee's and is really none of their business. If they can gain an advantage is making your bonus structure known to the world, then it seems like it becomes their business. What a CEO gets for a severance is of no concern to me but the catch is a good chunk (not enough some would say) will be taxed Word to that. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 It is really none of the public's business how much a private citizen receives from a private company. The share holders have a right to know but it really does not concern me. i have opinions about it but at the end of the day what right do I have to tell Target what to do with their money? None, and you're right, it's the CRA's business to know how much their employees receive. Our business is to see to it that the CRA is collecting at least 90% of it when it's at the scale of people like Target's CEO's. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Ash74 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 None, and you're right, it's the CRA's business to know how much their employees receive. Our business is to see to it that the CRA is collecting at least 90% of it when it's at the scale of people like Target's CEO's. Yeah. From a emotional perspective I do not understand how a person can fail and still receive this kind of payment. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
eyeball Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 Yeah. From a emotional perspective I do not understand how a person can fail and still receive this kind of payment. I don't understand how a person can succeed and receive this kind of payment, not without sharing it with his team and co-workers and if he can't well, I'm perfectly content with the CRA stepping in. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 If shareholders can't stand the idea of feeding the beast so directly they should pay the employees way way way down the food chain more. Let us worry about constraining the CRA's appetite. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Ash74 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 If shareholders can't stand the idea of feeding the beast so directly they should pay the employees way way way down the food chain more. Let us worry about constraining the CRA's appetite. Yes but than you run the risk of a talent drain like that in France. A 75% tax bracket chased many professionals out of the country. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
eyeball Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 I know, that's why working people need to start directing the world's government's to more closely integrate and harmonize their economies with other working people's governments. Up until now it's only been CEO's and shareholders who have been directing the world's government's to do things. There is a very good reason why incomes gaps are spreading and not closing. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Ash74 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 I know, that's why working people need to start directing the world's government's to more closely integrate and harmonize their economies with other working people's governments. Up until now it's only been CEO's and shareholders who have been directing the world's government's to do things. There is a very good reason why incomes gaps are spreading and not closing. Riiiiiiiiight, cause governments have a long history of being fair to everybody. Governments never end up being the only ones with the money. How are you going to make people think? How are you going to force people to invent and create? If a person can get away with the bare minimum they very much will if there is no reward for producing. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 I know, that's why working people need to start directing the world's government's to more closely integrate and harmonize their economies with other working people's governments. Errr...no....that would be "diddling" according to your previous manifesto. Make up your mind.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.