Hidden Liberal Agenda?

[socialist]

No I really don't. But with all due respect to teachers it is an incredibly sweet deal having summer off. Two weeks at Christmas a full pension once your age and years as a teacher reach 85. Time in the class room with the students is under six hours a day and yes I know that it takes time to mark tests and prepare lessons but the actual schedule is a hell of a good reason to become a teacher. With weekends and holidays they work less than 7 months a year for a very liveable wage in most areas. Big cities it would be harder I admit but for the majority it is a good place to be in

I fell on the floor laughing after reading this uninformed post.

Summer off? No. Teachers spend a good chunk of summer preparing for the next year and gathering new resources to be used in the classroom. We are constantly looking for things that will benefit our learners. Many of us take extra courses to complete a Masters in Education. Also, we are not paid for the summer. We can choose to have our salary paid for 10 months or have some clawed back so we receive a check during summer months. But we don't get paid for July and August. The hard work we do in the summer is unpaid volunteer work for the benefit of our learners.

2 weeks at Christmas. Yes we get two weeks paid vacation? Find a profession that doesn't

.

6 Hours a day. This was very funny. All teachers I know are in school for 8 hours a day. Many coach and run clubs after school (unpaid). Then we go home and mark and prepare lessons for the next day. 10-12 hour days are the norm for teachers. But some people. think we start at 9 and end at 3. That is totally wrong.

Then we have to deal with all kinds of issues. Look at this poster If you want to understand what a teacher deals with every day. This poster should be hung everywhere so people can begin to understand what the job of an educator entails.

http://busyteacher.org/6967-poster-im-so-much-more-than-just-a-teacher.html

[Ash74]

They do have to work a lot of extra nights and long days as you said. In terms of hours it's not far off from what others work from what I understand.

The salary and time off are definitely good, though.

Not really proof but a friend of mine who has been a teacher for about 15 years told me the first couple years are the hardest. Once you design your lesson planner it becomes a routine. Exams and papers are a pain but he is at work around 8 am everyday and home by 5 pm. He marks while watching a hockey game or a movie after his kids are in bed. He figures he puts in about 50 to 55 hours a week.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Ash74

[Ash74]

I fell on the floor laughing after reading this uninformed post.

Summer off? No. Teachers spend a good chunk of summer preparing for the next year and gathering new resources to be used in the classroom. We are constantly looking for things that will benefit our learners. Many of us take extra courses to complete a Masters in Education. Also, we are not paid for the summer. We can choose to have our salary paid for 10 months or have some clawed back so we receive a check during summer months. But we don't get paid for July and August. The hard work we do in the summer is unpaid volunteer work for the benefit of our learners.

2 weeks at Christmas. Yes we get two weeks paid vacation? Find a profession that doesn't

.

6 Hours a day. This was very funny. All teachers I know are in school for 8 hours a day. Many coach and run clubs after school (unpaid). Then we go home and mark and prepare lessons for the next day. 10-12 hour days are the norm for teachers. But some people. think we start at 9 and end at 3. That is totally wrong.

Then we have to deal with all kinds of issues. Look at this poster If you want to understand what a teacher deals with every day. This poster should be hung everywhere so people can begin to understand what the job of an educator entails.

http://busyteacher.org/6967-poster-im-so-much-more-than-just-a-teacher.html

Of the twenty things on that poster I am 19 of them. (the picture thing)

I run a business with 88 employee's that I am hoping will grow up any day now.Between dealing with union bullshit,training,payroll,scheduling and egos yes I as well feel more like a babysitter some days.

Ages range from 15 to 65 years and the drama is epic.

Yes two weeks at Christmas,a week in the spring, regular holidays that the private sector do not get, plus a salary that is set up to cover the summer vacation. Excellent benefits great pension. Plus a general respect from most educated people. Oh the horror.

Oh and I want credit for not just saying " that knowledge on the subject was just over rated "

[Michael Hardner]

He figures he puts in about 50 to 55 hours a week. That is still about 400 hours less than the average person.

If he works 50 hours a week for 38 weeks that's 1900 hours a year. (52 weeks minus 10 for summer, 2 for Christmas, 2 for stat holidays). 1900 hours is over 50 weeks of 37.5 hours a week so it seems like teachers work more.

Is my math right ?

[socialist]

Of the twenty things on that poster I am 19 of them. (the picture thing)

I run a business with 88 employee's that I am hoping will grow up any day now.Between dealing with union bullshit,training,payroll,scheduling and egos yes I as well feel more like a babysitter some days.

Ages range from 15 to 65 years and the drama is epic.

Yes two weeks at Christmas,a week in the spring, regular holidays that the private sector do not get, plus a salary that is set up to cover the summer vacation. Excellent benefits great pension. Plus a general respect from most educated people. Oh the horror.

Oh and I want credit for not just saying " that knowledge on the subject was just over rated "

I can choose to get my full salary over 10 months. Then I would not receive my deferred salary in the summer.

Edited November 20, 2014 by socialist

[Ash74]

I can choose to get my full salary over 10 months. Then I would not receive my deferred salary in the summer.

That is your choice. Not a good one in my opinion but not my concern.

[Ash74]

If he works 50 hours a week for 38 weeks that's 1900 hours a year. (52 weeks minus 10 for summer, 2 for Christmas, 2 for stat holidays). 1900 hours is over 50 weeks of 37.5 hours a week so it seems like teachers work more.

Is my math right ?

Yeah I messed up. But I did 40 hours a week for 48 weeks in a full time job is 1920

Teaching i did 188 days at ten hours a day would be about 1900 hours so about the same.

My bad I only counted the classroom time was not my intention.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Why would it cost more?

Teachers teach 188 days a year in the public schools. Less in high school with 6 professional development days.

Now a teacher earns a not terrible wage after ten years

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/anatomy-of-an-ontario-teachers-paycheque/article6015968/

They have excellent benefits and a pension we in the private sector can only dream about.

Why should teachers only work 194 days a year when most people are in the 240ish range.

Janitors still work all year. The only extra cost I see is school buses.

----I made this post before seeing the few above it, so it is redundant----

Your 240 number fails to take into account statutory holidays from working days, as the 194 days has them factored in. In Ontario, it's 229.

Also, 194 days does not include the prep time before school starts. My wife goes in and preps her classroom and material well before the start of class.

Comparing jobs by days worked fails to represent the actual intensity and stress or time consumption of the work. Teachers work 50-60 hours a week when you take into account everything they are required to(paperwork, evaluate work outside of class time, call parents, etc.), and volunteer to do (clubs, sports, competitions, food programs, student council, etc.). Numbers are UK so I assumed CDN teachers were slightly more lazy than their figures:[BBC Link].

The MOST PEOPLE that you compared teachers to in Ontario work on average: 36.6 hours a week. Remember, classroom time is not when they are planning, assessing, or performing administrative work.

1676 - hours worked by a standard Canadian each year over 229 days.

~2000 - hours worked by a Teacher over ~200 days.

My hours are capped at 37.5 hours a week, and I make almost 6 figures, my benefits are better, and I rarely have to take work home.

I WOULD NEVER WANT MY WIFE'S JOB.

Edited November 20, 2014 by MiddleClassCentrist

[socialist]

----I made this post before seeing the few above it, so it is redundant----

Your 240 number fails to take into account statutory holidays from working days, as the 194 days has them factored in. In Ontario, it's 229.

Also, 194 days does not include the prep time before school starts. My wife goes in and preps her classroom and material well before the start of class.

Comparing jobs by days worked fails to represent the actual intensity and stress or time consumption of the work. Teachers work 50-60 hours a week when you take into account everything they are required to(paperwork, evaluate work outside of class time, call parents, etc.), and volunteer to do (clubs, sports, competitions, food programs, student council, etc.). Numbers are UK so I assumed CDN teachers were slightly more lazy than their figures:[BBC Link].

The MOST PEOPLE that you compared teachers to in Ontario work on average: 36.6 hours a week. Remember, classroom time is not when they are planning, assessing, or performing administrative work.

1676 - hours worked by a standard Canadian each year over 229 days.

~2000 - hours worked by a Teacher over ~200 days.

My hours are capped at 37.5 hours a week, and I make almost 6 figures, my benefits are better, and I rarely have to take work home.

I WOULD NEVER WANT MY WIFE'S JOB.

Good post. Teachers have one of the most difficult jobs out there and I think they should be paid on par with pharmacists and accountants, and slightly below doctors.

[Ash74]

----I made this post before seeing the few above it, so it is redundant----

Your 240 number fails to take into account statutory holidays from working days, as the 194 days has them factored in. In Ontario, it's 229.

Also, 194 days does not include the prep time before school starts. My wife goes in and preps her classroom and material well before the start of class.

Comparing jobs by days worked fails to represent the actual intensity and stress or time consumption of the work. Teachers work 50-60 hours a week when you take into account everything they are required to(paperwork, evaluate work outside of class time, call parents, etc.), and volunteer to do (clubs, sports, competitions, food programs, student council, etc.). Numbers are UK so I assumed CDN teachers were slightly more lazy than their figures:[BBC Link].

The MOST PEOPLE that you compared teachers to in Ontario work on average: 36.6 hours a week. Remember, classroom time is not when they are planning, assessing, or performing administrative work.

1676 - hours worked by a standard Canadian each year over 229 days.

~2000 - hours worked by a Teacher over ~200 days.

My hours are capped at 37.5 hours a week, and I make almost 6 figures, my benefits are better, and I rarely have to take work home.

I WOULD NEVER WANT MY WIFE'S JOB.

I was comparing to the 40 hour work week. I am salary and work 50 and also am close to 6 figures but I do not get Christmas or summers off. That is the life I chose.

My wife is a stay at home mom that volunteers at the school and goes on just about every class trip as a chaperone at the teachers request. As I have pointed out I receive many calls for donations to the school and help out with what I can.

But you can't deny it is a sweet deal having the summer off. Two weeks at Christmas and week in the spring.

I don't know your benefits but teachers have a pretty good package and the retirement pension is one that many envy. The banking of sick days which was an issue in Ontario and more than a little over the top in my opinion.

I have made it clear about my respect for teachers and never claimed I would want to do it.

But the original hidden agenda of the Liberals has just been released in part for I think this is only the beginning that they spent over $400 million breaking the teachers contract while screaming that Hudak had a hidden agenda.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/11/19/liberals_decision_to_reopen_teacher_contract_cost_468m_auditor_says.html

Now I would LOVE to know how any Liberal voter can defend that?

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I was comparing to the 40 hour work week. I am salary and work 50 and also am close to 6 figures but I do not get Christmas or summers off. That is the life I chose.

My wife is a stay at home mom that volunteers at the school and goes on just about every class trip as a chaperone at the teachers request. As I have pointed out I receive many calls for donations to the school and help out with what I can.

But you can't deny it is a sweet deal having the summer off. Two weeks at Christmas and week in the spring.

I don't know your benefits but teachers have a pretty good package and the retirement pension is one that many envy. The banking of sick days which was an issue in Ontario and more than a little over the top in my opinion.

I have made it clear about my respect for teachers and never claimed I would want to do it.

But the original hidden agenda of the Liberals has just been released in part for I think this is only the beginning that they spent over $400 million breaking the teachers contract while screaming that Hudak had a hidden agenda.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/11/19/liberals_decision_to_reopen_teacher_contract_cost_468m_auditor_says.html

Now I would LOVE to know how any Liberal voter can defend that?

The Star Article doesn't look at overall cost savings. They look at where they had originally legislated teachers to, and what they softened their stance to later. And there is still a court battle being fought over what the Liberals did to impose it by blocking teacher's access to human rights tribunal and labour law.

Pension Envy is used by conservative hacks make an argument for taking away pensions from people who still have them. It's a bizarre conservative war on the middle class to support 1% earners goals of having more money at the expense of everyone else. Currently, 13% of a teacher's pay goes into their pension. I would be hard pressed to find any of my friends putting away 13% of their pay every week into a retirement savings right now in their 30's... The conservative mantra is to tear down the benefits of people who have them instead of encouraging people to ask for their own. It's quite sad actually.

Time Off: Flexible time off is worth much more than non-flexible time off. Teachers have non-flexible vacation time that can't be booked whenever they feel that they need a break. They also only get to travel during peak season when it's really busy and expensive to go anywhere. It's really nice if you own a cottage/invested your life to pay for a cottage because you can be up at it all summer. If cottaging isn't your thing then it is definitely not an ideal career vacation setup. That being said, being guara the same time off as your children is ideal for having a family.

[Boges]

The Summer isn't really peak travelling system if you want to go to a Sun location, it's really hot and it's also Hurricane season.

The only reason Summer can be seen as peak travelling season is because . . . Schools Are Out! It's the only practical time families with kids can get away.

Going away on March Break or Christmas is even worse. Would teachers prefer the alternative model of of sprinkling the time off throughout the year?

[GostHacked]

Teachers make in excess of $100k a year.

Which ones?

I don't have much sympathy for them having to pay a little extra for the vacation. They are rich compared to most other people and work much less. They have an easy job as well. No wonder so many people want to be teachers.

I'd have sympathy for any teacher that has to deal with your children. Teaching is not an easy job. They do not work less. I would challenge you to do it for a month or so.

Unlike most jobs where you can call in someone to replace you if you are sick, it is a little tougher to get a qualified supply teacher to make up the slack.

My cousin is a grade school teacher and this year she has a large amount of disruptive students. More so than any year she has been teaching. Making it difficult for her to do her job properly and help those who are trying to learn something. She is stressed out and is not getting much help from the school administration to address the issues.

[Big Guy]

I keep hearing how advantageous it is to be a teacher. I am surprised that more posters on this board don't just get their University degree (or degrees), do your two years in Teachers College and presto! You have (what I read here) is one of the softest and best paid jobs in Canada! Why not join the parade to the public trough?

[Boges]

I keep hearing how advantageous it is to be a teacher. I am surprised that more posters on this board don't just get their University degree (or degrees), do your two years in Teachers College and presto! You have (what I read here) is one of the softest and best paid jobs in Canada! Why not join the parade to the public trough?

Look at how many people are doing just that. Supply teacher lists are very long. Retirees are double dipping on their pensions.

In Ontario they actually extended the Teacher's College program to 2 years to try to slow down the stream of teachers coming out of school looking for non-existent jobs.

[Big Guy]

Great! Now set up a hiring system based on merit and not on filling quotas and affirmative action pressures.

BTW - I do not agree with what you state is the reason for extending the Teacher's College program in Ontario to 2 years.

[PIK]

Right now it is their new sex ed that is coming, but they seem to be hiding the facts. This is disgusting want these so called progressives are doing.

[overthere]

Good post. Teachers have one of the most difficult jobs out there and I think they should be paid on par with pharmacists and accountants, and slightly below doctors.

No, teachers have jobs that are well paid for the hours and working conditions. The workplace is warm, dry , clean and safe. The benefits are excellent, with plenty of time off. There is stress, but few jobs in those salary brackets do not have stress, it comes with the income levels everywhere. They should be paid in accordance with market conditions, supply and demand, like most other careers.

In Ontario they actually extended the Teacher's College program to 2 years to try to slow down the stream of teachers coming out of school looking for non-existent jobs.

In Alberta there are no teachers colleges, all teachers must now have a minimum 4 year Bachelor of Education university degree. You can get an afterdegree 2 year BEd, but it is very hard to get into that program, and you'll take 6 years overall for a second undergraduate degree.

In the 90s, there were many graduates with BEd degrees and few retirees, hence very few new jobs. Within a year or two, applications from high school students to enter the BEd degree program started to shrink as kids recognized job prospects as teachers were limited, because of the backlog of unemployed graduates.

The Faculty response was amazing. Instead of cutting back in recognition of the situation in the real world they.... reduced the entry requirements to the Faculty for high school grads. IIRC, their standard requirement of 70% average was dropped to 65%. Other faculties maintained their 70% requirement. Of course, that meant that high school grads with weak averages that could not get into any other Faculty could now get into Education. It kept enrollment up in the Faculty, which meant admin and professors and support people kept pumping out grads that would not get jobs. It was a near complete disconnect from the community they supposedly serve.

[eyeball]

Is there a premium paid for the stress of being in such a politicized, envied and or reviled occupation?

Teachers seem to forever be caught in some judgmental cross hair or another. That must kinda suck.

[overthere]

Is there a premium paid for the stress of being in such a politicized, envied and or reviled occupation?

Teachers seem to forever be caught in some judgmental cross hair or another. That must kinda suck.

according to this poll, teachers are not reviled but do make the top five 'most trusted professions in Canada'.

http://www.canada.com/news/Trust+greatest+pharmacists+doctors+soldiers+poll+says/5941671/story.html

Teachers are the source of much of their own politicization. In my province, the Teachers Association tries to be both a union and an advocate for public education/professional standards/discipline. They really need to separate those two, for their own credibility.

And teachers are paid a premium, or at the very least are well compenstaed for the whole package. Salaries here for an experienced primary school teacher with a Masters degree will hit $100k(plus excelent benefits) soon. Many of them work very hard, but is that unusual for a $100k income?

[Michael Hardner]

No, teachers have jobs that are well paid for the hours and working conditions. The workplace is warm, dry , clean and safe.

OT, that's a pretty low bar for good working conditions.

with plenty of time off.

But long hours in between... and no flexibility for vacation time as pointed out above.

You made some other points that are fair, which I won't comment further on.

There is stress, but few jobs in those salary brackets do not have stress, it comes with the income levels everywhere. They should be paid in accordance with market conditions, supply and demand, like most other careers.

They are paid according to market conditions, but they have formed a guild that holds a monopoly on the labour, just as the NHLPA has, just as the police have.

In Alberta there are no teachers colleges, all teachers must now have a minimum 4 year Bachelor of Education university degree. You can get an afterdegree 2 year BEd, but it is very hard to get into that program, and you'll take 6 years overall for a second undergraduate degree.

I think Ontario is the same now.

The Faculty response was amazing. ...

How so ? It sounds like the faculty behaved like many other self-supporting education services I've heard of.

[The_Squid]

100k a year and they still strike and complain constantly. Teachers have it made. 100k a year to brainwash our kids.

Cite for your salary figure please.

[GostHacked]

Sure, no problem. Here you go...

So , as you can see teachers are very well paid. I would even say they are rich. To many people this is rich.

So who is making 100k?

[The_Squid]

Lol

So your claim was false. Thanks.

[Topaz]

I was told when a teacher retires in Ontario, they have no health care , other than OHIP True???