Israeli company Sodastream bows to the BDS Movement.

[BC_chick]

Rue, I won't quote your entire post to me, but here I'm addressing your post earlier on the thread to me.

The settlements have no logic. They do not serve a security purpose and they are a serious hindrance to peace and a two-state solution. However, what they do achieve is further animosity and reactionary extremism.

If Israel (and Netanyahu as you claim) truly wanted a two-state solution why would they choose a policy that blatantly hinders peace and fuels hostilities? Does that make any sense to you?

On the other hand, if they do not support a two-state solution and they are keen on keeping the West Bank, would it not make sense to keep taking more land, use the ensuing (and anticipated) hostilities to justify the status quo and further entrenching their stakes in the area?

Actions speak louder than words and Israel's actions clearly demonstrate the desire to keep the land. As dre said earlier, anyone with a working brain cell can see that.

As for the issue of a majority of Israelis supporting a Palestinian state while Hamas claims to not recognize Israel - it's the exact same situation on the Palestinian side. Polls show that Palestinians support a two-state solution while their leadership does something else.

Israelis elect their leaders as much as Palestinians do. Neither side is working in the interest and desires of their people. This is not just a Hamas issue.

Your point is therefore moot - what the people want is completely irrelevant when leadership does not act on their wishes. Clearly this goes for both sides.

Israel cries victim but they are just as complicit. The only difference is that Israel has far more power which does not make the issue a "war" as the media so shamelessly portrays it every time Israel goes on a bombing spree.

Israel has the might and the means to make amends but they choose policies that fuel the fire and justifies more land-grabbing. I don't buy it for one second that they are victims who are merely posturing when deep down inside they want to see a Palestinian state.

Edited November 8, 2014 by BC_chick

[Rue]

BC to answer you directly with no b.s., it does not help and makes no sense for Israel in my personal opinion to keep expanding on the West Bank and

I do not agree with collective punishment of Palestinians if terrorists among them engage in such acts.

For me it does not make sense to think you can achieve peace doing things you know incite and alienate anger on either side.

Both sides to me other than the terrorists, i.e., Abbas and Netanyahu for me are mirror images of one another playing the same game of bluff and one upsmanship. Both have shaky coalitions with diverse and often volatile players in their coalitions.

I do not think at this time, Netanyahu believes peace is possible as long as terrorists remain armed on the West Bank (Fatah Hawks/Eagles) or with Hamas in the Gaza. I believe he thinks Abbas has no real power to deal with and he plays his hard line for the others in the PA and Hamas.

I think beneath Netanyahu's rhetoric is in fact a very conservative, pragmatic man, who loaths risks but loaths war even more. Do not mistake this man as a war monger. Most former Israeli senior officers loath war contrary to what you think. But they are privy to info you and I aren't that suggests to them the true extent of terrorist threats not just against their state but Abbas and other moderate leaders.

I do not think Abbas myself is a true moderate. His standing up and giving an ovation to a fellow member of the PA chanting death to Israel and his pointed and repeated refusal to recognize a Jewish state of Israel and to tell the Arab media repeatedly the only solution for Israel is a Muslim state there, makes him questionable.

I do think though there are moderate Palestinians outside the country who would recognize an Israeli state. The problem is to get them and moderate Israeli politicians together an phase out the powers that be now would be a very hard task.

The current generation of Abbas and Netanyahu are not going to change. Both are entrenched. Deeply so because they both believe peace is beyond their control in theory or in practice so they play tit for tat.

I also think the failed interventions and absolute insanity of Obama foreign policy undermined if not castrated Abbas before Hamas, humiliated Netanyahu and the Egyptians and directly threatened King Abdullah of Jordan which is one reason there are in fact American troops in Jordan which further make Abdullah a vulnerable individual and unable to use his moderate position to advance peace.

I think Israel deserves criticism yes. I do not think though either side's people deserve the on-going conflict fueled by terrorism, Muslim extremism, Israeli political extremist beliefs and reactions to terrorism, oil politics, and the disasterous foreign policy of the US.

For there to be peace we need a strong US leader not alienating his country from the principal players of peace, Egypt, Israel, Jordan and the PA.

I am of the school of foreign policy that believes the vacuum caused by Obama's failed foreign policy enabled Hamas and ISIL and even Al Quaeda to gain more power.

I obviously disagree with you, but am upfront. I do not blindly support Israeli policies on the West Bank. I personally think they should unilaterally establish a border and pull the rest of their people out. It would cause havoc for sure though. The timing can not be done at this point. The reality is with the on-going war in Syria and Iraq, the destabilization of the petro dollar, the potential larger war that could loom in the Ukraine, Israel will not do anything unilaterally. It believes its best bet is to wait until a Republican President is elected and hope they send back Colin Powell as the US envoy for peace negotiations someone all sides in this conflict respect.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not so fast....those who spend time bitching about "Conflict Dirt Farm" better have more skin in the game than just pointing at the United States for leadership. America has already been there and done that to the tune of more than $100,000,000,000.

[GostHacked]

Jacee you have stated on this forum you will not recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Do you deny that?

Please correct me. Tell me you recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state.

I believe I am the only one who makes the claim that Israel has no right to exist. I don't believe anyone else here has said that. But, Israel exists and nothing I can do about it.

You keep asking what Israel's border's are to Tim Why?

Because the borders are not solid, and have been changing for decades. Israel treats the West Bank as it's own via increased Jeiwsh settlements built there. That to me says they are not done with drawing the border and will finalize that when they say so. Until then, I do not see a clearly defined internationally recognized border. Eventually it will all be under Israeli control while being part of Israel proper.

This little graphic gets throw up here and there, and it's a good reminder of what Jacee is talking about. What are the borders?

[Rue]

LOL....more crap again.

Lol tee hee. Sorry I forgot to respond earlier.

[Rue]

I believe I am the only one who makes the claim that Israel has no right to exist. I don't believe anyone else here has said that. But, Israel exists and nothing I can do about it.

Correction you are the only one who admits to the position that Israel has no right to exist. Your compatriots have the exact same opinion but won't admit it. Some do giggle though.

As for the map are you serious? That map has been repudiated as many times as its been used to try engage in piss on Israel's existence threads. The amount of times its been used and discarded reminds me of Paris Hilton.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Rue

[jacee]

Jacee you have stated on this forum you will not recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Do you deny that?

Please correct me. Tell me you recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state.

I don't give a hoot what kind of state Israel wants to call itself, and you know that.

You keep asking what Israel's border's are to Tim Why?

Do you not know where they are?

Do you?

You want to cling to self defeating anti Jew hating rhetoric that sees no future allowing any nation but a Muslim one-yah we get it.

What does that even mean? :/

'Anti-Rue' would make sense ... but don't overestimate your importance.

.

.

Edited November 14, 2014 by jacee

[jacee]

I believe I am the only one who makes the claim that Israel has no right to exist.

I stand corrected.

I don't believe anyone else here has said that. But, Israel exists and nothing I can do about it.

Because the borders are not solid, and have been changing for decades. Israel treats the West Bank as it's own via increased Jeiwsh settlements built there. That to me says they are not done with drawing the border and will finalize that when they say so. Until then, I do not see a clearly defined internationally recognized border. Eventually it will all be under Israeli control while being part of Israel proper.

This little graphic gets throw up here and there, and it's a good reminder of what Jacee is talking about. What are the borders?

Waiting for an answer from rue ... ... ...

<crickets>

[Big Guy]

I would expect that if Rue rejects the map as shown above then he/she would post one that is correct and shows the true changes in the boundaries of Israel. Unless of course if he/she is mistaken and will not admit to the mistake.

[Rue]

The map being used Big Guy has been repudiated on this forum numerous times in the past by me and others.

You act as if the first time its ever been referred to. Lol.

Yah yah. Paris Hilton is a virgin.

Here's a little suggestion Big Guy. You want to provide a map that arbitrarily starts with some small white dots called "Jewish land" and suggest there were no Jews elsewhere makes me want to dance the Horah.

As for you Jacee, you have stated on this forum you are against the creation of a Jewish site and consider Hamas legitimate freedom fighters to be distinguished from ISIS.

As for your winking at Ghost Hacked and not me I think that's really mean.

One last thing. Tell your buddy Ghost Hacked for him to say he is the only one who is against the creation of Israel as a Jewish state seems like a slight to his compatriots especially Hudson Jones who claimed Zionism is a cancer that needs to be wiped out.

You guys are fun.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

Zionism is a cancer. Just like Salafism/Wahabism is.

Both ideologies destroy people and lives.

There should be no room for these barbaric and violent selfish ideologies on this planet.

They should be rejected and wiped out.

[dre]

I would expect that if Rue rejects the map as shown above then he/she would post one that is correct and shows the true changes in the boundaries of Israel. Unless of course if he/she is mistaken and will not admit to the mistake.

You can tell when someone bleats out "its been repudiated!!!" but makes no effort to repudiate it, that they dont have anything.

[BubberMiley]

Correction you are the only one who admits to the position that Israel has no right to exist. Your compatriots have the exact same opinion but won't admit it. Some do giggle though.

That's one way of making an argument. Say people believe things they've never said they believe. That way, you don't have to provide citations. There's no evidence to cite!

Personally, I'm beginning to think some people on this board are pretending they are defending Israel but are actually anti-Israel and are just intent on making it seem extremist and insane. I would think they're rather clever if they were more coherent.

Edited November 17, 2014 by BubberMiley

[Hudson Jones]

That's one way of making an argument. Say people believe things they've never said they believe. That way, you don't have to provide citations. There's no evidence to cite!

Story of Rue's forum life.

Repeatedly accuse of saying things they have never said before.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Hudson Jones

[Rue]

You can tell when someone bleats out "its been repudiated!!!" but makes no effort to repudiate it, that they dont have anything.

Dre I have in the past on this forum numerous times as others have repudiated the above map and others like it with you and your entourage. If you think I am going to engage the lot of you in the same debates over and over is hilarious. But please join in with the chorus. Lol.

[Rue]

Story of Rue's forum life.

Repeatedly accuse of saying things they have never said before.

For someone who recycles the same anti Israel diatribes over and over you sure you are in the position to talk of my forum life? Lol. Hudson Jones the map produced, the USS Liberty shtick, the telling Jews to go back to Germany, the Zionism is cancer comment, its all old repeated Israel drivel. Oh I get the game. Keep recycling the same crap, over and over. See the problem is you can, I won't respond. Once was enough. Once it was clear to me what your agenda was you got one response. You never debated back. Its over. What you do now to bait, and join in with the entourage of Israeli haters is wasted. You can also tell Big Guy youyr "entourage" is engaging itself in anti Jewish and anti Israeli diatribes. Its spent. No one cares. Knock yourself out. Bad bad bad bad Israel. Cancer wipe it out.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Rue

[dre]

Dre I have in the past on this forum numerous times as others have repudiated the above map and others like it with you and your entourage.

Iv never ready any real attempt to repudiate those maps - a the very least they are pretty close. In any case its pretty clear you have nothing

[dre]

See the problem is you can, I won't respond. Once was enough.

You respond over and over and over again.... Your entire posting history consists of it.

[Rue]

You respond over and over and over again.... Your entire posting history consists of it.

Lol. I respond to specific things I decide to respond to. If you can't get that Dre by now, so be it. Neither you nor anyone else can bait me or anyone else to respond to only the words they want to hear.

Read it back Dre. We are now on a yet another thread that uses the pretext of discussing a matter on thee West Bank to insult and spew hatred about Israelis and Jews.

Who turned this forum into a theatre to do that Dre? Do I come on with the same old map that has been presented and debated on this forum ad infinitum and try pass it off as never being presented on this forum?

Do I hijack threads to tell Jews to go back to Germany or resurrect the stale USS Liberty debate that has been presented on this forum over and over to engage in the same anti Israel diatribes?

Isn't it interesting you expect me to be silent but do not make the same comment to the entourage you join in with to engage in anti Israel diatribes.

You pick out my words as repetitive but not a peep about the recycled diatribes against Jews under the pretext of questioning Israel state policies?

Get this clear Dre and tell it to your colleague Hudson and Marcus or Bud or Naomi or whatever name they use. I am no cancer. No Jew who believes they have a right to a Jewish state and to live in one is. Not one Jew who has an ounce of self respect will come on this forum or any forum and not challenge someone who says that or spit at us to go back to Germany.

If I was a black man and you said go back to Africa what would you expect me to say. Yassuh Mssuh Dre az a goin right now. Say now, that's reasonable. You heard Moonlight Graham. Its reasonable to tell Jews to go take a slice out of Germany.

See even when blacks were insulted with they were at kleeast told to go back to where they originated from. Funny with Jews though we are told to go to Germany though. You think I or any Jew will be told to return to where the gas chambers exterminated 6 million of us?

Do I sound like someone who will be patronized by you, Moonlight Graham, Eye anyone? You want to insult the legacy of despair we went through? Is that a reasonable component of discussing Israeli state policies, to insult holocaust survivors?

I am a Jew. I make no apologies for it just as no Christian or Muslim need apologize for their origins.

You want to keep jumping in on the chorus here I am to spit right back your words of contempt.

I will not give even an inch of my people's dignity away.

Go on spit.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Rue

[jbg]

Sodastream will be closing down its controversial factory, located in an illegal settlement in the West Bank.

“SodaStream’s announcement … shows that the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement is increasingly capable of holding corporate criminals to account for their participation in Israeli apartheid and colonialism,” said Rafeef Ziadah, a spokesperson.

“[The] BDS campaign pressure has forced retailers across Europe and North America to drop SodaStream, and the company’s share price has tumbled in recent months as our movement has caused increasing reputational damage to the SodaStream brand.”

The BDS movement is one of the main engines of the non-violent Palestinian resistance against the brutal Zionist regime. This powerful and influential movement continues to gain momentum and will be a huge part of the inevitable, which is when Palestinians will experience freedom, human rights and self-determination.

Read it back Dre. We are now on a yet another thread that uses the pretext of discussing a matter on thee West Bank to insult and spew hatred about Israelis and Jews.

Sigh. Another in a long string of anti-Jewish threads. Edited November 23, 2014 by jbg

[marcus]

The international community has overwhelmingly recognize Palestine. However, recently, major European countries are having votes and doing it as well. This is a powerful step forward, as for so long, they have chosen to not touch this topic.

Another vote by a European parliament to recognize Palestine.

So that's Sweden, England, Ireland and now Spain that will be going on the anti-semite list for recognizing Palestine.

The lower houses of Spain's parliament voted overwhelmingly Tuesday to recognize “Palestine” as a state.

“I want to express my satisfaction that all (political parties) have decided to vote for this declaration,” said Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Garcia-Margallo.

Link

Israel is angry at the move. I guess they don't believe Palestinians deserve their own state.

The Foreign Ministry put out a caustic statement on Wednesday, saying that rather than voting on Tuesday to recognize a Palestinian state, the Spanish parliament would have been much better off had it condemned the Palestinian terrorist attack on a Jerusalem synagogue earlier in the day.

[jbg]

The Foreign Ministry put out a caustic statement on Wednesday, saying that rather than voting on Tuesday to recognize a Palestinian state, the Spanish parliament would have been much better off had it condemned the Palestinian terrorist attack on a Jerusalem synagogue earlier in the day.

What do ou think? Do you think that the attack on the synagogue was right?

[marcus]

What do ou think? Do you think that the attack on the synagogue was right?

That's a silly question. Of course it wasn't. I don't support or try to excuse terrorism. Whether it's done by Palestinians or Israelis or anyone else.