Why Islam is dangerous

[Moonlight Graham]

The Quran on Martyrdom.

The Bible says all sorts of crazy shit. The Bible supports slavery and talks about stoning people to death for all sorts of sins. Anyone who believes these old fart books literally is a complete moron and a nut.

Not every Muslim believes this stuff, just relax.

[Scott Mayers]

On the topic, while I appreciate the 'Four Horsemen' of Atheism, I disagree with Sam Harris since even what is apparently 'less subtle' as being extreme, ALL religions are just such when or where they are pressed. Much of the less obvious forms of abuses are always the indirect hidden forms that authoritarian cultures conspire among themselves. Religion is overtly a construct of irrational beliefs and is NOT always simply of the 'traditional' forms. As such, even Atheism by some is a religion.

Islam is no more 'extreme' except by chance. To me (and many others), Israeli Nationalism (Zionism) is just as equally violent. They just have the fortune of power in relative wealth and support that grants them the capacity to delude others (even themselves) into interpreting their acts as non-violent (as "terrorist" implies of the 'enemy'). Every cult(ure) who supports a fixed belief in themselves as having some collective inherent right is a threatening 'religion' to at least some outside group. They use 'terrorist' tactics when they are in relative weakness only. [Even Hitler's "Final Solution" against the Jews and many other victims only derived as their weakness was more perceptible to themselves in the end.]

[cybercoma]

What is a Shahid, cybercoma? Or would you prefer to pretend such a thing does not exist?

Again, if 1 million Muslims wanted you dead, you already would be. Your fear is the result completely irrational hyperbole.

[Goddess]

Again, if 1 million Muslims wanted you dead, you already would be. Your fear is the result completely irrational hyperbole.

Of course they don't want us all dead.

Who would pay them jizya then?

[eyeball]

Religion is overtly a construct of irrational beliefs and is NOT always simply of the 'traditional' forms. As such, even Atheism by some is a religion.

No, atheism is not as such at all really, and I doubt if capitalizing the word will change that.

[DogOnPorch]

What cybercoma is saying is that you can't paint all Muslims with one broad brush.

I have female Muslims friends who don't wear a hijab or anything covering their heads/face etc and are otherwise pretty modern., but they don't eat pork and they celebrate Eid.

Just like Christians, every individual has their own interpretations of their own religion and follow it uniquely. Some Muslims believe in a ridiculous hyper-conservative and violent ideology and must be condemned just like any ridiculous beliefs, while other Muslims are peaceful and secular etc and I have no problem with them.

As mentioned:

Islam is a dangerous ideology due to its promise of great reward for violence perpetrated in the name of Allah. Martyrdom and Jihad combine together to make a potent carrot over the stick that would be one's mortality. What's worse, is that apparently peaceful Muslims can suddenly turn 'radical' and act on the Quran's orders...Allah's orders.

A scenario where a Muslim puts himself into enough sin that he would surly be going to the Hell-fires...but cleanses away the sin by becoming a Shahid is not out of the question.

So the question at this point is: how much death is acceptable from Islam in the West? The defenders of Islam say this number is tiny...so I guess we can expect a small amount of death in Canada. But do we accept it?

Again, if 1 million Muslims wanted you dead, you already would be. Your fear is the result completely irrational hyperbole.

Which has happened numerous times. So again....how much death is acceptable to you?

[TimG]

The Bible says all sorts of crazy shit. The Bible supports slavery and talks about stoning people to death for all sorts of sins. Anyone who believes these old fart books literally is a complete moron and a nut.

Not every Muslim believes this stuff, just relax.

With Christianity the message of peace came later and it fairly straight forward to argue that the old stuff can be ignored. My understanding is that with Islam the peaceful message came first and was later supplanted by a violent message. On top of this there is a formal Islamic doctrine called 'abrogation' that says the later passages invalidate earlier passages. This makes it more difficult for Islamic scholars to argue that the 'true' Islam is one of peace. Many Muslims choose to ignore these finer points and focus on the message of peace but from a philosophical perspective it is much easier for a Muslim to convince themselves that Allah condones violence that it is for a Christian to convince themselves that Christ condones violence. Edited September 11, 2016 by TimG

[DogOnPorch]

With Christianity the message of peace came later and it fairly straight forward to argue that the old stuff can be ignored. My understanding is that with Islam the peaceful message came first and was later supplanted by a violent message. On top of this there is a formal Islamic doctrine called 'abrogation' that says the later passages invalidate earlier passages. This makes it more difficult for Islamic scholars to argue that the 'true' Islam is one of peace. Many Muslims choose to ignore these finer points and focus on the message of peace but from a philosophical perspective it is much easier for a Muslim to convince themselves that Allah condones violence that it is for a Christian to convince themselves that Christ condones violence.

There is no unconditional Thou Shalt Not Kill in the Quran. Some killing is permissible: see Quran 17:33

[DogOnPorch]

Which says for the Quranically challenged: You may not kill a soul Allah considers sacred (Muslims) unless it is a just cause. Anybody else is fair game as far as Allah is concerned.

[Moonlight Graham]

As mentioned:

Islam is a dangerous ideology due to its promise of great reward for violence perpetrated in the name of Allah. Martyrdom and Jihad combine together to make a potent carrot over the stick that would be one's mortality. What's worse, is that apparently peaceful Muslims can suddenly turn 'radical' and act on the Quran's orders...Allah's orders.

A scenario where a Muslim puts himself into enough sin that he would surly be going to the Hell-fires...but cleanses away the sin by becoming a Shahid is not out of the question.

So the question at this point is: how much death is acceptable from Islam in the West? The defenders of Islam say this number is tiny...so I guess we can expect a small amount of death in Canada. But do we accept it?

Which has happened numerous times. So again....how much death is acceptable to you?

So then I want to know, what is your goal then? What's the solution here? Should we ban all Muslims because a very small minority act violently in the name of Islam?

Yes some Muslims belief in horrible things that are unacceptable in Canada and pose security risks. What to do...

[DogOnPorch]

So then I want to know, what is your goal then? What's the solution here? Should we ban all Muslims because a very small minority act violently in the name of Islam?

Yes some Muslims belief in horrible things that are unacceptable in Canada and pose security risks. What to do...

I'm not YOUR problem solver. This is YOUR problem.

[Peter F]

So then I want to know, what is your goal then? What's the solution here? Should we ban all Muslims because a very small minority act violently in the name of Islam?

Yes some Muslims belief in horrible things that are unacceptable in Canada and pose security risks. What to do...

Dog says it needs fixing: So FIX it!

[Guest]

If the solution to a problem is not readily apparent, that's no reason to not acknowledge the problem.

[DogOnPorch]

Dog says it needs fixing: So FIX it!

Indeed. Let's keep it peaceful, too. No concentration camps as has been done in the past.

If Islam was smoking, it would have gross warning labels. But it's a religion...so we 'respect it'.

If the solution to a problem is not readily apparent, that's no reason to not acknowledge the problem.

Crisis? What crisis??

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Supertramp_-_Crisis.jpg

Edited September 11, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[Moonlight Graham]

I'm not YOUR problem solver. This is YOUR problem.

Sounds like your problem too.

[DogOnPorch]

Sounds like your problem too.

Those who import Islam into Canada made it mine.

[GostHacked]

I'm not YOUR problem solver. This is YOUR problem.

Does this mean you are under no threat at all by Muslims? Got it.

Those who import Islam into Canada made it mine.

Holy damn, make up your mind, which is it?

But if you continue to support the war on terror and having our military over there killing them, then, you have no problem with bringing some here.

I hear nothing but bitching and complaining from you with not one single idea on how to fix this so called problem that is/or is not yours.

This is what I term 'shitting up a thread'.

[DogOnPorch]

I look forward to your: "Why Islam Is Peaceful" thread.

I've stated my case clearly. You have no defense or you would present one instead of attacking me.

[GostHacked]

I look forward to your: "Why Islam Is Peaceful" thread.

I've stated my case clearly. You have no defense or you would present one instead of attacking me.

Well, you offer a lot of rhetoric up and history, but not one single idea of a solution. But hey you should fear being attacked by Muslims more, but that is just my 'interpretation' of it all.

[Guest]

I look forward to your: "Why Islam Is Peaceful" thread.

I've stated my case clearly. You have no defense or you would present one instead of attacking me.

There's only one defence. Attach blinkers, cover ears and say, repeatedly, "Why, oh why, are you tarring all Muslims with the same brush, you racist?".

There are variations. Bigot, Islamophobe, Xenophobe, Nazi, all are valid last words to the defence.

But other than that...

Edited September 11, 2016 by bcsapper

[DogOnPorch]

There's only one defence. Attach blinkers, cover ears and say, repeatedly, "Why, oh why, are you tarring all Muslims with the same brush, you racist?".

There are variations. Bigot, Islamophobe, Xenophobe, Nazi, all are valid last words to the defence.

But other than that...

Of course, the irony is that Islam as an ideology has that exact reputation of assassinating its detractors. Which is why it's a threat.

There are x number of Hell's Angels....if they wanted you dead...........

Check a search for Muhammad and poets and see what you find.

Edited September 11, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

If Islam was smoking, it would have gross warning labels. But it's a religion...so we 'respect it'.

Who's this we you're talking about? If by respect you mean keeping it front and centre of one's consciousness I can't think of anyone who does that more or better than you.

[DogOnPorch]

Who's this we you're talking about? If by respect you mean keeping it front and centre of one's consciousness I can't think of anyone who does that more or better than you.

The Manson Family is in prison for less than what Islam encourages.

[eyeball]

Nobody is in prison for what your side has encouraged.

[GostHacked]

There are x number of Hell's Angels....if they wanted you dead...........

Good analogy, if Muslims wanted you dead . . .