DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Uh, huh...Jesus lifts your sins on demand, eh? As mentioned...folks who sin all the time and claim to be Christian aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Uh, huh...Jesus lifts your sins on demand, eh? As mentioned...folks who sin all the time and claim to be Christian aren't. And the argument changes again.... So now it's "sinning all the time".... You seem confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 And the argument changes again.... So now it's "sinning all the time".... You seem confused. As mentioned: The Ten Suggestions. It's either a command or it isn't. But, unless you tie this to Islam being dangerous, aren't you derailing this conversation? Perhaps you'd like to now defend Islam by claiming Christian tenets towards sin absolve Muslims from following the Quran? That would be about par for the course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 As mentioned: The Ten Suggestions. It's either a command or it isn't. But, unless you tie this to Islam being dangerous, aren't you derailing this conversation? Perhaps you'd like to now defend Islam by claiming Christian tenets towards sin absolve Muslims from following the Quran? That would be about par for the course. You're arguing against something I never said. Nice try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 You're arguing against something I never said. Nice try. I'm trying to get this back on topic. So since Christians can forgive murderers on their death beds, are Muslims free to ignore Allah's commands in the Quran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 I'm trying to get this back on topic. So since Christians can forgive murderers on their death beds, are Muslims free to ignore Allah's commands in the Quran? There are billions of Muslims that ignore the horrible crap in the Quran. It has nothing really to do with Christians being forgiven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 There are billions of Muslims that ignore the horrible crap in the Quran. It has nothing really to do with Christians being forgiven. And back around to the beginning. Islam and Christianity have nothing to do with genetics. One either follows the rules or they are not part of the club. No such thing as half a Muslim. A point that the fellows with the guns will drive home rather briskly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) And back around to the beginning. Islam and Christianity have nothing to do with genetics. One either follows the rules or they are not part of the club. No such thing as half a Muslim. A point that the fellows with the guns will drive home rather briskly. At one time hot and cool didn't used to be synonyms either. The Westboro types will also point out that their more literal take on the Bible is the only correct one. Thanks to the reform movement and some creative apologetics, like Christians, many Muslims are free to cherry pick or creatively reinterpret the scripture. That's a good thing. Kind of like hybrid cars, which are a stepping stone to something better. Reform and moderation is a stepping stone in the direction of secular humanist values....then eventual disbelief. Edited September 9, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 At one time hot and cool didn't used to be synonyms either. The Westboro types will also point out that their more literal take on the Bible is the only correct one. Thanks to the reform movement and some creative apologetics, like Christians, many Muslims are free to cherry pick or creatively reinterpret the scripture. That's a good thing. Kind of like hybrid cars, which are a stepping stone to something better. Reform and moderation is a stepping stone in the direction of secular humanist values....then eventual disbelief. Reform is essential. Nobody would give a rat's rear about Islam and its creepy ways if it WASN'T killing folks. But, as I've pointed out to others and they've ignored it...Islam's track record speaks for itself. From Day One speaks for itself. Here was a guy...Muhammad...who had a BIG chip on his shoulder and could NOT take being rejected. Much like the wimp at the beach getting bullied...he showed them. He showed them ALL. Islam's goal is to eliminate all other religions. Nobody likes to grapple with that bit of interfaith dialogue. Jesus's role in Islam is to SLAY the Christians on Judgement Day...almost funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 The West is not responsible for everything. Acknowledge that and I'll continue. Really? I concur, always have, which was s why I thought we disagreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 You thought wrong. How much you imagine I thought or said the west is responsible for is where the disagreement lies. You said it was everything, not me. Do you really understand what it is you're concurring with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) Well, the issue me and Dogonportch have is that he thinks ISIS is the true and only serious rendition of Islam and when shown an interpretation from learned scholars of Islam - Ignores it. Does he ponder that perhaps those learned scholars may be as qualified as himself or Sam Harris to argue interpretation of Islam? Nope. But sure calling bullshit from time to time is a good thing, particularly when confronting bullshit. You seem to think that you know what every sect, every Muslim is thinking.Who are you to say what their interpretation is? Edited September 9, 2016 by drummindiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 You thought wrong. How much you imagine I thought or said the west is responsible for is where the disagreement lies. You said it was everything, not me. Do you really understand what it is you're concurring with? Lol. Thanks for your time. If I want to play games I'll go outside and play hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 As mentioned: The Ten Suggestions. It's either a command or it isn't. But, unless you tie this to Islam being dangerous, aren't you derailing this conversation? Perhaps you'd like to now defend Islam by claiming Christian tenets towards sin absolve Muslims from following the Quran? That would be about par for the course. This is one of my main issues with Chrristianity (besides the fact I'm not delusional) is that you can murder someone on Sat and go to the church on Sunday and confess, state Jewus is your saviour and all is forgiven, in a theological sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) You seem to think that you know what every sect, every Muslim is thinking.Who are you to say what their interpretation is? Did I say what their interpretation of Islam is? No. The authors certainly have a different interpretation than Dog on Porch does They wrote a letter to al-Baghdadi telling al-Baghdadi why he and ISIS are wrong. I am pretty sure that their interpretation stands on its own with no need for approval from me you or anybody else. Do you know what every muslim is thinking? Do I? does Dog? Does Argus? Did I claim such? Edited September 9, 2016 by Peter F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Well, the issue me and Dogonportch have is that he thinks ISIS is the true and only serious rendition of Islam and when shown an interpretation from learned scholars of Islam - Ignores it. Does he ponder that perhaps those learned scholars may be as qualified as himself or Sam Harris to argue interpretation of Islam? Nope. But sure calling bullshit from time to time is a good thing, particularly when confronting bullshit. Who would you classify a learned scholar? Surely members and leaders of ISIS could be considered such? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Did I say what their interpretation of Islam is? No. The authors certainly have a different interpretation than Dog on Porch does They wrote a letter to al-Baghdadi telling al-Baghdadi why he and ISIS are wrong. I am pretty sure that their interpretation stands on its own with no need for approval from me you or anybody else. Do you know what every muslim is thinking? Do I? does Dog? Does Argus? Did I claim such? "Their interpretation" Many Muslims interpretation matches theirs and don't consider it wrong. 122 members signed. Out of 1!5 billion, that's what known as a shit turn out. Several of the signees were part of terrorist instances. Widely stated that those who supported letter were apostates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) Not being a scholar of Islam myself, so it would be very difficult and tremendously presumptuous of me to provide you a list of approved-by-PeterF scholars of Islam. I assume the authors of the letter are scholarly types. Perhaps some members of ISIS are Islamic scholars too, maybe. The authors of the letter didn't think so. But I can say who I definately do not think are scholars of Islam: Peter F; Dog on Porch; Drummindiver; Argus and pretty much everyone else on Maple Leaf Web. *in reply to post 241 Edited September 9, 2016 by Peter F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 "Their interpretation" Many Muslims interpretation matches theirs and don't consider it wrong. 122 members signed. Out of 1!5 billion, that's what known as a shit turn out. Several of the signees were part of terrorist instances. Widely stated that those who supported letter were apostates. Fine. So you dismiss the letter as drivel. Help yourself, consider them apostates and terrorists and fringe elements. But do not proclaim ISIS as the right and true and only interpretation of Islam - just as DogonPorch did . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 I think the difference between Muslims and Christians is that Christians are told to WAIT for Jesus to do the killing. Muslims are instructed to do the killing themselves. This is what makes them more dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Fine. So you dismiss the letter as drivel. Help yourself, consider them apostates and terrorists and fringe elements. But do not proclaim ISIS as the right and true and only interpretation of Islam - just as DogonPorch did . I don't think I did that. I was just stating there are many interpretations, and everyone believes theirs is the one true one, even those who advocate violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) I don't think I did that. I was just stating there are many interpretations, and everyone believes theirs is the one true one, even those who advocate violence. I agree. The issue we have with DoP is that he keeps insisting that the violent interpretation is the correct one, and that the non-violent Muslims aren't following the teachings of Islam, and so aren't true Muslims. I do think it's important to fight this message of Islamic violence whether it comes from a non-believer, such as DoP, or a Muslim - except I don't know any Muslims who advocate for violence and conversion by the sword, either personally or online. Edited September 9, 2016 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 I agree. The issue we have with DoP is that he keeps insisting that the violent interpretation is the correct one, and that the non-violent Muslims aren't following the teachings of Islam, and so aren't true Muslims. I do think it's important to fight this message of Islamic violence whether it comes from a non-believer, such as DoP, or a Muslim - except I don't know any Muslims who advocate for violence and conversion by the sword, either personally or online. Didn't say ANY of that. ^^^^^ My source is the Quran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Today's question not meant to be asked....or answered...is: What's a Shahid? What does the Quran say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Hit a nerve, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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