Why Islam is dangerous

[Goddess]

Would you give evidence against them if they were investigated in Canada? Do you know if there is any push to do that?

I just figured out how to quote on my phone. Yay, me!

I would absolutely give evidence.

There are groups of ex's all over the world working actively on this. We are actually a pretty tight community and very supportive of each other. When I was working on the recovery board, I often took phone calls in the middle of the night from people all over the world needing helpand advice on the best way to get out.

Steven Hassan works with us a lot.

Rampant and unreported pedophilia and their policies of protecting pedos is what is bringing them to the attention of many governments now.

They are a smaller group, about 8 million or so worldwide with another 10 million who are involved but classified as "inactive" but supportive. If it was bigger, there would be more attention. They are very secretive as well, and have a large legal body that helps them fight in the courts. A few years ago, a young woman in California was the first to win a legal victory against them to the tune of 28 million $$. Most victims take the "hush money" because they are quite successful in their legal wrangling and delaying trials and using religious freedom to their advantage.

[DogOnPorch]

Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed. [it is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.

https://quran.com/9/111

The Quran on Martyrdom.

[Guest]

As is the case with most any topic on this forum. I honestly don't know why I or anyone else posts here still. I guess it's like gambling. You keep playing because you hope you're going to hit it big. Play enough and eventually you do win but at what price? Winning at gambling is like finding that moment where people actually listen and learn from each other here. It's rare but when it does happen it's like winning the lottery. Posting here is like gambling. They payoffs are few and far between but once in awhile it happens.

I post here because of people like you. What would be the point of posting somewhere where everyone agrees with you?

It's only worth coming here if it's fun, and it's only fun if one argues.

I also couldnt get an answer for some of my questions because they know when they reply it honestly, they will contradict with themselves.

Which ones? I'll give it a shot.

[dialamah]

The Quran on Martyrdom.

Feel better, now that you've got that off your chest?

Here is a scripture from Qu'ran 3.98, which uses the word Shahid. Which one makes more sense to you?

"O followers of the scripture, why do you reject these revelations of God, when God is a Martyr (Shahid) over everything you do?"

"O followers of the scripture, why do you reject these revelations of God, when God is a Witness (Shahid) over everything you do?"

Can a god be a martyr? Would he even think of martyring himself over people who do not follow his rules?

Edited September 10, 2016 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

Read your Quran.

Quran 3:98 reads:

Say, "O People of the Scripture, why do you disbelieve in the verses of Allah while Allah is Witness over what you do?"

https://quran.com/3:98

...or are you engaging in lying to protect Islam? Aka Taqiya?

Either ignorant or dishonest. Which is it?

[Goddess]

Feel better, now that you've got that off your chest?

Here is a scripture from Qu'ran 3.98, which uses the word Shahid. Which one makes more sense to you?

"O followers of the scripture, why do you reject these revelations of God, when God is a Martyr (Shahid) over everything you do?"

"O followers of the scripture, why do you reject these revelations of God, when God is a Witness (Shahid) over everything you do?"

Can a god be a martyr? Would he even think of martyring himself over people who do not follow his rules?

Where this kind of debate falls short is that the "official" rhetoric of a church, cult, or religion is often different than what is actually practiced and preached in person.

My cult will give you a sanitized "public" version of why shunning is practiced. It may even convince you that they are well within their rights to shun. But the reality of it is quite different.

You are arguing the "official" rhetoric of Islam.

Dog's argument is that the official rhetoric is not what's being practiced.

(I apologize, Dog, for again speaking for you. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me)

Edited September 10, 2016 by Goddess

[DogOnPorch]

Shaheed means witness...as in Allah witnesses what you do. It has zero to do with suicide.

But as the Quran instructs, fighting and dying in the name of Allah brings the highest reward...as witnessed by Allah.

The Quran even provides for believers accidentally caught in the crossfire of a martyrdom operation. Free pass to Paradise Plus.

Quran 17:33

https://quran.com/17:33

[Big Guy]

You don't have to "convince yourself" of anything when the proof is constantly in front of you. This isn't a scientific theory we're talking about here.

I suggest that you view the documentary.

[dialamah]

Where this kind of debate falls short is that the "official" rhetoric of a church, cult, or religion is often different than what is actually practiced and preached in person.

My cult will give you a sanitized "public" version of why shunning is practiced. It may even convince you that they are well within their rights to shun. But the reality of it is quite different.

You are arguing the "official" rhetoric of Islam.

Point taken. Although given I have relatives who are Muslim, and they live the "official rhetoric", I still believe it has more validity than, for instance, the rhetoric of a cult.

I have been shunned as well, though it was called disfellowshipped. My kids were very young, so I didn't have to worry about them having to join in the shunning since I just took them with me. Nor did I have close relatives who were involved in the same religion. It was hard to lose a couple of close friends, and an entire social support network. This church did not engage in pedophilia, however, and their female oppression behavior was about the same as any conservative Christian church.

It's not that I think DoP is entirely wrong in what he's saying, it's that he refuses to see or admit the validity of any other point of view or interpretation. How can we build on the peaceful and tolerant interpretations of Islam if we don't admit they exist?

[Goddess]

Hmmmm....mine was also called disfellowshipping.....

I will grant you that your experiences with Islam have been great. Mine have not been. I lived in a predominantly Muslim communityfor 8 years. We seem to have experienced 2 very different sides of it.

[?Impact]

But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the Lord: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean. - Numbers 19:20

[dialamah]

Hmmmm....mine was also called disfellowshipping.....

I will grant you that your experiences with Islam have been great. Mine have not been. I lived in a predominantly Muslim communityfor 8 years. We seem to have experienced 2 very different sides of it.

I would be very interested in hearing your side of it.

[DogOnPorch]

It's not that I think DoP is entirely wrong in what he's saying, it's that he refuses to see or admit the validity of any other point of view or interpretation. How can we build on the peaceful and tolerant interpretations of Islam if we don't admit they exist?

Oskar Schindler was a good Nazi. Nazism still had to go.

[dialamah]

Here's a martyr:

A man has been hailed a hero after he apparently took his own life to save the lives of countless other people.

It has been reported that Najih Shaker Al-Baldawi approached a suicide bomber and hugged him as he made his way to a shrine in Balad, Iraq, after seeing that he was wearing a suicide belt.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/10/hero-hugged-suicide-bomber-to-save-other-peoples-lives-5997398/#ixzz4Jt1ow2k5

Focusing on only the things that extremists do means we miss stories like this. What Qu'ranic verse inspired him to try to stop a terrorist? Could it have been one of the many DoP says are 'abrogated'? How many more like this man are there among the billions of Muslims around the world, that we never hear about?

I don't want to downplay the seriousness of extremist actions by people claiming to follow Islam. At the same time, I don't want the humanity of the majority of people who follow Islam to be forgotten.

Edited September 10, 2016 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

It doesn't matter if you post dozens of good things Nazism did for Germany. It was the other bits that gave it the bad name.

[dialamah]

It doesn't matter if you post dozens of good things Nazism did for Germany. It was the other bits that gave it the bad name.

It is the extremists in Islam that give it a bad name. We should get rid of those.

The rest of the people, not so much.

[DogOnPorch]

It is the extremists in Islam that give it a bad name. We should get rid of those.

The rest of the people, not so much.

Which Muslims are the good ones?

[dialamah]

Which Muslims are the good ones?

FFS. I provide an opening for a 'reasoned' discussion with you, and you start of with this BS again. But to answer your moronic question, the 1 billion Plus Muslims who do not belong to ISIS or any other terrorist group, who do not blow things up, who speak out against terrorists and conversion by the sword, who are dying from and fighting against the same terrorism we are fighting against.

[eyeball]

It doesn't matter if you post dozens of good things Nazism did for Germany. It was the other bits that gave it the bad name.

Yep, just like anyone else whose bad will blows back in their face.

[DogOnPorch]

FFS. I provide an opening for a 'reasoned' discussion with you, and you start of with this BS again. But to answer your moronic question, the 1 billion Plus Muslims who do not belong to ISIS or any other terrorist group, who do not blow things up, who speak out against terrorists and conversion by the sword, who are dying from and fighting against the same terrorism we are fighting against.

So none of those billion will suddenly take the Quran literally, eh? We've been seeing apparently normal Muslims go nutzo and kill shouting Allahu Ackbar. Or is metal illness really that common in Islam?

[DogOnPorch]

So to sum-up again:

Islam is a dangerous ideology due to its promise of great reward for violence perpetrated in the name of Allah. Martyrdom and Jihad combine together to make a potent carrot over the stick that would be one's mortality. What's worse, is that apparently peaceful Muslims can suddenly turn 'radical' and act on the Quran's orders...Allah's orders.

A scenario where a Muslim puts himself into enough sin that he would surly be going to the Hell-fires...but cleanses away the sin by becoming a Shahid is not out of the question.

So the question at this point is: how much death is acceptable from Islam in the West? The defenders of Islam say this number is tiny...so I guess we can expect a small amount of death in Canada. But do we accept it?

[Argus]

FFS. I provide an opening for a 'reasoned' discussion with you, and you start of with this BS again. But to answer your moronic question, the 1 billion Plus Muslims who do not belong to ISIS or any other terrorist group, who do not blow things up, who speak out against terrorists and conversion by the sword, who are dying from and fighting against the same terrorism we are fighting against.

I think you exaggerate the numbers just ever so slightly. One billion plus Muslims are not speaking out against terrorists and conversion by the sword, nor are they fighting or dying against ISIS.

And many hundreds of millions, according to PEW research, a majority in virtually every Muslim country, supports death for apostasy and blaspheme, and the implementation of Sharia law.

Are those on the 'good' side? For that matter, if someone doesn't blow things up but believes females must wear the hijab or be beaten, and never speak to or socialize with men does that make them a 'good' Muslim or a bad Muslim?

[drummindiver]

I think you exaggerate the numbers just ever so slightly. One billion plus Muslims are not speaking out against terrorists and conversion by the sword, nor are they fighting or dying against ISIS.

And many hundreds of millions, according to PEW research, a majority in virtually every Muslim country, supports death for apostasy and blaspheme, and the implementation of Sharia law.

Are those on the 'good' side? For that matter, if someone doesn't blow things up but believes females must wear the hijab or be beaten, and never speak to or socialize with men does that make them a 'good' Muslim or a bad Muslim?

Well, to be fair, when they organized moderate Muslims to write a letter against extremism, they managed to get 122 to sign their names.

[Moonlight Graham]

The reason it's a threat is that Muslim have murdered those who dare criticize Islam. Or would you like to claim they have not?

Plus, I'm not sure how much longer you can blame me for the World's problems. Or in this case: Islam's problem. While I appreciate you'd much prefer everybody shut-up and let Islam do what it does without any offered resistance, others are going to resist. Perhaps Islam will dominate one day...then fellows like Argus and myself will get our deserved punishments. You can come to the hangings.

What cybercoma is saying is that you can't paint all Muslims with one broad brush.

I have female Muslims friends who don't wear a hijab or anything covering their heads/face etc and are otherwise pretty modern., but they don't eat pork and they celebrate Eid.

Just like Christians, every individual has their own interpretations of their own religion and follow it uniquely. Some Muslims believe in a ridiculous hyper-conservative and violent ideology and must be condemned just like any ridiculous beliefs, while other Muslims are peaceful and secular etc and I have no problem with them.

[Moonlight Graham]

Which Muslims are the good ones?

The ones that don't commit crimes or are making plans to commit crimes?