kidnapped Israeli teens bodies found

[Hal 9000]

I was speaking reality in times of war. Surely you don't think I am speaking against men. I had a dad (who fought in ww II) have a son and a lover.

"Misandry can be manifested in numerous ways including sexual discrimination, denigration of men, violence against men, and sexual objectification of men"

I have no idea how you can jump from my signature to this hatred towards men (I do like men). It is mind boggling to me but perhaps gives a glimpse into the minds of some of the male members here at this forum.

You said; "I can't even imagine the Palestinian mothers with babies and young children, having no power, no where to run. It's a travesty on both sides."

Could you have said "palastinian civilians/families instead? You really sound like you couldn't care less about men. Then you follow it up with the "If wars were managed by women" crap.

Personally, I think female leaders know when war is required just as men do, fortunately, they generally are not forced to make such decisions. Most of us, including women have the luxury of living in a free society without guilt - great, don't assume men are the monsters while you go for sushi, sip your wine and chat with your friends about how hard done by you are.

[Army Guy]

It's irrelevant:

A cease fire is just a cease fire.

Hamas proposes 10 years, with reasonable conditions.

.

Reasonable to whom Hamas, what about Israel , ya we all get it Israel bad hamas good, they want peace....so they can get more rockets to start it all over again......how many times doesw Israel have to sign peace agreements only to be broken when Hamas is ready to attack....this is not going to stop.... they can't even keep the recent Cease fire, less than 5 hours....

[Rue]

Today Hamas has for the third time broken truces it insisted Israel enter into with it. For the third time it has shown as quick as it signs truces, it will use those truces as an opportunity to kill IDF soldiers as it has just done.

Oh but wait Jacee is still posing that Israel won't enter truces with Hamas.

Good gawd as James Brown would say.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Rue

[GostHacked]

I wonder how many times Israel has broken a cease fire. Something we never hear.

[Rue]

Finish what you started Ghost. Get real. Don't ask a question designed to try avoid what Hamas has done and then not answer it. Finish it.

Go find a treaty or truce Israel violated with Hamas. Go ahead. You started the accusation, finish it.

Good luck. I won't hold my breath with you answering that question.

What a pathetic way to try defend what Hamas did.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Finish what you started Ghost. Don;t ask a question designed to try avoid what Hamas is done and then not answer it. Finish it.

Yes because Israel is completely innocent in all of this. I am sure of it.

Go find a treaty or truce Israel violated with Hamas. Go ahead. You started the accusation, finish it.

Good luck. I won't hold my breath with you answering that question.

Oh it's not like it would be reported. I mean chemical weapon attacks were blamed on Assad on three separate occasions. And all three times it was found to be not so, or inconclusive. One was actually blamed on the rebels, which we are supporting :/

The shelling of the UN facilities is a little telling from the Israeli side of things. If Hamas had rockets there, then it was bound to be attacked by Israel. I believe the UN would have said something about the proximity of those rockets to civilian buildings. Someone would have ratted them out. But I feel there were no weapons, the rhetoric of 'Israel attacked UN buildings' quickly changed to 'UN buildings were shelled'. Israel would want to distance themselves from any attack on a UN building.

There are ONLY civilian areas in Gaza. No matter where the rockets are placed, they will be in a civilian area. I would not put it past Israel to have planted the rockets to justify the shelling. Because false flags never happen.

USS Liberty anyone?

It may just be that Israel sucks as an occupier. The tight controls over Gaza and the small area, and with the tech Israel has, should be able to prevent weapons from getting into Gaza.

Edited August 1, 2014 by GostHacked

[dre]

That is a question for the Palestinians to answer, how far are they willing to suffer before stopping....

Well the thing is they continue to suffer whether they stop or not.

[cybercoma]

Silence on Hamas breaking the ceasefire from the staunchest of Israel's critics is a demonstration of how little some people care about innocent people more generally and just care about belonging to a cause.

[GostHacked]

Silence on Hamas breaking the ceasefire from the staunchest of Israel's critics is a demonstration of how little some people care about innocent people more generally and just care about belonging to a cause.

What the others go silent when Israel screws up. Goes both ways it seems.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well the thing is they continue to suffer whether they stop or not.

Not unexpected...failed choices...failed leadership...failed policies. Pathetic management of economic and humanitarian aid. Poster children for cute Dr. Phil questions.

[Bonam]

What the others go silent when Israel screws up. Goes both ways it seems.

Although one would be surprised that we seem to have such a large pro-Hamas faction here. And they are clearly pro-Hamas rather than anything else (pro-Palestinian, etc), because they do not give a damn about all the things Hamas does to endanger Palestinian lives.

[Black Dog]

Silence on Hamas breaking the ceasefire from the staunchest of Israel's critics is a demonstration of how little some people care about innocent people more generally and just care about belonging to a cause.

*wanking motion*

What the others go silent when Israel screws up. Goes both ways it seems.

Nah. When Israel makes a mistake, it's usually still Hamas's or the Palestinian's fault somehow. "If only they didn't force Israel to do *insert horrible thing here*."

Edited August 1, 2014 by Black Dog

[dre]

we seem to have such a large pro-Hamas faction here

facepalm

One would be suprised that anyone would half a brain could support the people in charge on either side.

Edited August 1, 2014 by dre

[Bonam]

facepalm

One would be suprised that anyone would half a brain could support the people in charge on either side.

Well, one would hardly be surprised to see supporters of Israel here, or supporters of the Palestinian people (or supporters of both, since it is not mutually exclusive). But supporters of Hamas? That is indeed surprising. And yet we seem to have them nonetheless.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Bonam

[scribblet]

What 'occupation of Gaza', Israel left Gaza in 2005 leaving thousands of greenhouses which were destroyed by Palestinians.

Israel’s ambassador Ron Prosor is calling on the UN to condemn Hamas for kidnapping an Israeli soldier, breaking a temp. truce and denying humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, demand the demilitarization of the Gaza Strip and declare Hamas a terrorist organization.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/day-25-us-slams-indefensible-israeli-strike-pa-could-press-war-crimes-charges/

Kerry condemns Hamas

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/269531441.html

And rightly so...

[dre]

Well, one would hardly be surprised to see supporters of Israel here, or supporters of the Palestinian people. But supporters of Hamas? That is indeed surprising. And yet we seem to have them nonetheless.

The real supporters of Hamas here are the people that condone the shelling going on, and groups like Likud. What you see unfolding right now is the best possible thing that could ever happen for Hamas or any other militant organization. When bombs are raining down on Gaza killing thousands of civilians it greatly empowers the hawks. We are starting to see renewed political support for Hamas as a result of this... pro hamas demonstrations in the west bank etc... things we just didnt see before.

Israel doesnt seem to learn. Every time they go in with the goal of whiping out one of these militant groups they just strengthen it. Invading lebanon created the PLO in the first place. The invasion to "wipe out Hezbollah" created a groundswell of support for the organization. This latest round of shelling palestinian civilians, schools, and UN facilities will do the same. Even their closest allies in America and Europe are using terms like "unacceptable and indefensible" to describe Israels actions.

It almost seems like Israel WANTS to strengthen Hamas politically.

As for supporting Hamas... I dont think anybody likes what they do and how they operate, but some people recognize the practical reality that when you steal a country bit by bit from its inhabitants and plunder the place for natural resources at the same time, groups like Hamas just ARE going to exist.

Edited August 1, 2014 by dre

[jacee]

Reasonable to whom Hamas, what about Israel

Have you even read Hamas' conditions?

HAARETZ: Gideon Levy

Hamas and Islamic Jihad demand freedom for Gaza. Is there a more understandable and just demand? There is no way to end the current cycle of killing, and not have another round in a few months, without accepting this. No military operation, by air, ground or sea, will bring a solution; only a basic change of attitude toward Gaza can ensure what everyone wants: quiet.

Read the list of demands and judge honestly whether there is one unjust demand among them: (See link)

.

Edited August 1, 2014 by jacee

[Bonam]

It almost seems like Israel WANTS to strengthen Hamas politically.

Or more likely they simply don't have a more effective way of dealing with Hamas. It can't simply ignore what Hamas has done.

What you see unfolding right now is the best possible thing that could ever happen for Hamas or any other militant organization.

Of course, which is why Hamas does everything it can to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties. And so many in the West dumbly fall for it and blame all the deaths on Israel.

[Big Guy]

Israel/Hamas breaking a temporary ceasefire? Who cares? When do you call a time out on a war? Do a bunch of referees run on to the field and start penalizing who fired first?

There are no rules in war. You get in the way you get killed. You kill enough of them and they give up.

The one who has the most military might and/or is more successful in killing the other side wins and writes the history.

Might is right.

[dre]

And so many in the West dumbly fall for it and blame all the deaths on Israel.

Look when you illegally occupy someone elses land and plunder it for resources, these kinds of conflicts are going to result. And when you have a modern military power fighting against people that arent even allowed to drill wells or farm food, then those people are going to resort to guerilla warfare. For them its either that or do nothing. Its a completely predictable reality, and Israel planned for it from the very beginning.

Recognizing this obvious reality and the fact its inevitable for someone in the palestinians position to lash out at someone thats slowly but steadily colonizing their territory, does not mean you support or condone guerilla tactics.

Ill post this quote from Ben Gurion again...

Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army.

None of this is an accident. Israel always knew this would be the cost of stealing land that millions of people live on.

Edited August 1, 2014 by dre

[dre]

Of course, which is why Hamas does everything it can to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties.

Well they fight in a way that increases civilian casualties for sure. This is just how assymetric warfare works... you blend into the civilian population, hide, stage sneak attacks, etc.

Are you expecting them to walk out onto the battlefield and stand in a line braveheart style?

[bush_cheney2004]

Look when you illegally occupy someone elses land and plunder it for resources, these kinds of conflicts are going to result.

Really ? So when do the attacks from First Nations start in Canada ? Or the United States ?

[dre]

Really ? So when do the attacks from First Nations start in Canada ? Or the United States ?

I dunno! Maybe around the time you finally make a valid point?

[bush_cheney2004]

I dunno! Maybe around the time you finally make a valid point?

Ignoring the obvious parallel(s) will not diminish my very valid point vis-a-vis Hamas and Palestinians...failed leadership.....failed policies....failed choices. Israel has done far, far better....and will continue to do so.

[dre]

Ignoring the obvious parallel(s) will not diminish my very valid point vis-a-vis Hamas and Palestinians...failed leadership.....failed policies....failed choices. Israel has done far, far better....and will continue to do so.

They arent obvious parallels, even an a remote way.