Argus Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 If they're firing rockets because they're living under oppressive controls ... it might be wiser to address those conditions rather than bomb and kill many innocent children. . The oppression coming from Israel is not as up close and in your face as the oppression coming from Hamas. The Arab world is always oppressed, everywhere, by their own leaders. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 The Israeli tactic seems to be to push the Palestinians into a box in Gaza, keep them contained and build more settlements on land that is in dispute. An interesting theory except there are no Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. The Israelis forcibly evacuated their people from them when they left the Gaza Strip years ago. So what is your next theory? As to your solutions, the only obvious solution is for Egypt to be given the Gaza strip and make them Egyptian citizens, and for Jordan to take over the remaining portions of the West bank and give them Jordanian citizenship. The people in these areas are culturally, linguistically, linguistically and ethnically identical anyway. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 An interesting theory except there are no Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. The Israelis forcibly evacuated their people from them when they left the Gaza Strip years ago. And while Gaza was evacuated, the settlements in the West Bank have increased. Twice since the UN recognition of Palestine, Israel has approved more settlement building in the West Bank. Quote
Big Guy Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 An interesting theory except there are no Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. The Israelis forcibly evacuated their people from them when they left the Gaza Strip years ago. So what is your next theory? As to your solutions, the only obvious solution is for Egypt to be given the Gaza strip and make them Egyptian citizens, and for Jordan to take over the remaining portions of the West bank and give them Jordanian citizenship. The people in these areas are culturally, linguistically, linguistically and ethnically identical anyway. An interesting possible temporary break in war. So the people who have been pushed off what they consider to be their land now stay off that land and the problem handed over to Egypt and Jordan. So somebody redraws a couple of lines on a map and the Palestinians are now Egyptians and Jordanians. A possible suggestion by someone who considers the Israelis the good guys and the Palestinians the bad guys. (And the Egyptians and Jordanians as fools - why would they want to get saddled with his problem?) Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Big Guy Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 I was just watching CNN and an interview with Madeleine Albright, the former USA Secretary of State and current director on the board of the Council on Foreign Relations. She criticized the acts of killing of innocent civilians taking place during the Israeli invasion and questioned the “proportionality” of Israeli action. She also stated that Israel is losing its “moral authority” in this conflict. An interesting development. Either Madeleine is going rogue on the current USA policy or the Obama administration is becoming uncomfortable with supporting Israel in this action. I wonder if Israel will get that message. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
BC_chick Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 I was just watching CNN and an interview with Madeleine Albright, the former USA Secretary of State and current director on the board of the Council on Foreign Relations. She criticized the acts of killing of innocent civilians taking place during the Israeli invasion and questioned the “proportionality” of Israeli action. She also stated that Israel is losing its “moral authority” in this conflict. An interesting development. Either Madeleine is going rogue on the current USA policy or the Obama administration is becoming uncomfortable with supporting Israel in this action. I wonder if Israel will get that message. Dennis Kucinich also wrote a critical article on Huffington Post. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-j-kucinich/israel-invades-gaza_b_5598535.html Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 Dennis Kucinich also wrote a critical article on Huffington Post. If Dennis Kucinich is critical of Israel policies, then they are definitely doing the right thing. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 And while Gaza was evacuated, the settlements in the West Bank have increased. Twice since the UN recognition of Palestine, Israel has approved more settlement building in the West Bank. That's irrelevant. It's Gaza which is the problem. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 An interesting possible temporary break in war. So the people who have been pushed off what they consider to be their land now stay off that land and the problem handed over to Egypt and Jordan. So somebody redraws a couple of lines on a map and the Palestinians are now Egyptians and Jordanians. A possible suggestion by someone who considers the Israelis the good guys and the Palestinians the bad guys. (And the Egyptians and Jordanians as fools - why would they want to get saddled with his problem?) Palestine has never been an independent country. The people who lived there were not in any way different from those who live now in the areas around them. Jordan used to be called Palestine, you know, until the British broke it off and named it Jordan. The land the Palestinians sit on is small, barren, and without the economic means or resources to make it anything but a giant slum, even if it were given independence. These are the economic realities. As part of Jordan and Egypt, however, there would be responsible government and the ability to develop a better life for the residents. Obviously, there would have to be some money offered up to the Egyptians and Jordanians to get things started. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 I wonder if Israel will get that message. And surrender, you mean? I highly doubt it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 The late Golda Meir often spoke of a very powerful, secret Israeli weapon....they have nowhere else to go. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 That's irrelevant. It's Gaza which is the problem. It is indeed relevant. The settlements must go. Quote
dre Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 Palestine has never been an independent country. The people who lived there were not in any way different from those who live now in the areas around them. Jordan used to be called Palestine, you know, until the British broke it off and named it Jordan. The land the Palestinians sit on is small, barren, and without the economic means or resources to make it anything but a giant slum, even if it were given independence. These are the economic realities. As part of Jordan and Egypt, however, there would be responsible government and the ability to develop a better life for the residents. Obviously, there would have to be some money offered up to the Egyptians and Jordanians to get things started. Kind of besides the point since Israel plans to keep the land forever anyways. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
cybercoma Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 If they're firing rockets because they're living under oppressive controls ... it might be wiser to address those conditions rather than bomb and kill many innocent children. . If someone threatens to murder your family unless you give in to their demands, do you just give into their demands or do you contact the police? Quote
dre Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 If someone threatens to murder your family unless you give in to their demands, do you just give into their demands or do you contact the police? Stop trying to caricature this as some kind of one sided good vs evil conflict. Israel has Gaza under a full on blockade and siege and when you do that retaliation is expected and a forgone conclusion. Theres no good guys or bad guys here, just bitter enemies, and the hawks running the show on both sides. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
cybercoma Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) That's irrelevant. It's Gaza which is the problem.Illegal Israeli settlements aren't irrelevant. They're also a problem. But trying to murder innocent civilians over a property dispute is like killing someone's family because they built their fence too far into your yard or at least attempting to. Edited July 22, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
Topaz Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 Again Israel says that Hamas are using civilians as shields and its not Israel fault if these people are being killed. Well, I beg to differ with the leader of Israel, just the very fact that HE KNOWS children and women are being killed, shows little compassion for his own words. Both sides are in the wrong and the rest of the world, especially the UN is doing very little. All we hear is a bunch of hot air coming out Baird's mouth, but the Feds are supplying weapons to Israel, along with the US. The only way to stop the killing is to stop the supplies of weapons on both sides. Quote
Boges Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 Again Israel says that Hamas are using civilians as shields and its not Israel fault if these people are being killed. Well, I beg to differ with the leader of Israel, just the very fact that HE KNOWS children and women are being killed, shows little compassion for his own words. Both sides are in the wrong and the rest of the world, especially the UN is doing very little. All we hear is a bunch of hot air coming out Baird's mouth, but the Feds are supplying weapons to Israel, along with the US. The only way to stop the killing is to stop the supplies of weapons on both sides. So how are we going to stop Iran from supplying weapons to Hamas? Quote
dre Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Illegal Israeli settlements aren't irrelevant. They're also a problem. But trying to murder innocent civilians over a property dispute is like killing someone's family because they built their fence too far into your yard or at least attempting to. Israel didnt just build a fence in the wrong place, they conquered that land, bulldozed the homes of the people living there, built a massive infrastructure to steal natural resources from the place, and killed many thousands of people in the process. And again... Those rockets are only "targetting civilians" in the same sense that Im "targetting deer" if I blindly fire my rifle into a gigantic forest. Hamas knows the chances of them hitting anything are virtually nil. The purpose is political in nature not military. Edited July 22, 2014 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Argus Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 It is indeed relevant. The settlements must go. It's irrelevant to a discussion on rockets are being fired from Gaza. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 Stop trying to caricature this as some kind of one sided good vs evil conflict. Israel has Gaza under a full on blockade and siege and when you do that retaliation is expected and a forgone conclusion. Let's consider just who is retaliating for what. When Israel left Gaza, it also abandoned its settlements and there was no blockade. The blockade happened after Hamas' brief war against Fatah, where they took over control of Gaza. That is when both Israel and Egypt imposed a blockade. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Hal 9000 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 Hamas (and nearly every other Arab/Muslim group) is anti-semetic, they hate jews. They make no apologies for their beliefs, they even put it in writing and shout it out at the UN. The fact that people here are supporting that racism is absolutely shocking. Suppose a group of KKK members started shooting guns and rockets into black neighbourhoods (because y'now, blacks take their jobs and destroy the social system) in LA, Philly, Chicago...whatever, would you support the racist KKK group or support the African Americans when they get fed up and start kicking ass on those racist clowns. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
dre Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 Let's consider just who is retaliating for what. When Israel left Gaza, it also abandoned its settlements and there was no blockade. The blockade happened after Hamas' brief war against Fatah, where they took over control of Gaza. That is when both Israel and Egypt imposed a blockade. You cant consider any part of the conflict in a vacuum. Its a tit for tag cycle of aggression, violence, and provocation. Like two retarded kids fighting for dirt in the same sandbox with no adults around to force them to behave. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 The fact that people here are supporting that racism is absolutely shocking. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Hal 9000 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 Is the emoticon a comment that you don't believe this is a race/religion issue? If you honestly believe that this is about oppression, blockades or settlements then I at you. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
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