kidnapped Israeli teens bodies found

[bush_cheney2004]

The above is an inconvenient truth to some. Thanks for reminding everyone that without the Jewish terrorist groups, Israel would not have been created.

Israel is not a terrorist group, while Hamas is so designated by several nations. The "Jewish terrorist groups" succeeded....Hamas is a dismal failure, now broke.

[dre]

Certainly no terrorists to be found on the other side, right?

Good lord.

As far as Im concerned the militant minded people on both sides might as well be called terrorists. Its really a shame that they cant get hurded into a big stadium to kill each other with bladed weapons or something like that where nobody else can get hurt in the crossfire. If it werent for all the collateral damage watching those people kill each other could actually be a lot of fun.

[Rue]

...without the Jewish terrorist groups, Israel would not have been created.

Your use of this latest political conflict to broadcast misrepresentations about the state of Israel in order to slander all its people as terrorists is for me to be expected.

Your words once again manifest their absurdity. In total the Irgun never amounted to more than 1,000 of 470,000 Jews in Palestine at the time of their operations. Of that 1,000 no mroe than 200 or so broke off and formed the Stern-Lehi gang.

So to suggest this amount of Jews and not the remaining 469,000 were responsible for their own self determination is past absurd. It attests to your attempt to revise history and switch the focus away fromt he 469,000 and then all the other Jews of the world who had to flee to Palestine.

It also of course selectively ignores that these terrorists responded directly to Arab terrorists.

It fails miserably in that any one who takes their time to read the history of Israel's origins knows that terrorism never succeeded in defeating it or creating it and all one has to do is look at the public records to understand that and to understand terrorism came to the Middle East against the Jews of Palestine byt he Nazis who were able to incite and spread their version of Jewish hatred to Arabs.

However the smeer you attempt to suggest all Israelis who created their country or who are Zionist were terrorist is as illogical and odious as saying all Arabs of the Middle East were terrorists then and now.

Hudson Jones if this latest round of conflict is a platform for you to denigrate Israelis you are failing miserably.

[Rue]

Certainly no terrorists to be found on the other side, right?

Good lord.

This is a good opportunity to examine the origins of the origins of terrorism in regards to the creation of Israel. There are of course numerous studies that can trace back the origins of terrorism in Muslim society far earlier than that but I will limit it to the 1920's onwords to help explain the current crisis.

As good a year as any to start would be 1928 when the Ikhwan al-Muslimun, or Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt was created.

It was in fact created to challenge the Arab secular governments of that time who this group felt had taken away power from the elite andvery rich Muslims of that time.

The Muslim Brotherhood was led by Hassan al-Banna, who was totally opposed to any secular (non religious) government. In the world he envisioned there would be no seperation between Islam and the state and Muslim law through its mullahs would serve as governmen, judge, jury.

The Egyptian government assasinated al-Banna, and in his death he became a martyr and that Muslim Brotherhood grew into various cells in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and so on.

Now also keep in mind that in 1920 the Arabs had entered into an agreement with Jewish Palestinians betwen Chaim Wietzman representing the Jews and Prince Faisal representing the Arabs, to create two states side by side.

That idea caused panic to the British and French because had it suceeded there would have been no room for France and Britain meddling to get control of the area. So they lied to Faisal and the French told Faisal Wietzman was planning to break the agreement. So Faisal ripped up the agreement only to then be arrested byt he French and expelled from Syria at which time the French set up colonies in Syria and Lebanon, and Britain created two puppet kingdoms Jordan and Iraq and placed both of Faisal's sons on those thrones to appease him and then created Saudi Arabia for the rest of the Faisal klan.

Its all there. Churchill could not be any clearer in his memoirs. The French and British deliberately meddled to prevent a Jewish and Arab states living side by side.

As Churchill admitted in his memoirs, the British asked him to lie and lie he did. He promised to create an Israeli state in what is today Jordan, Israel and Palestine in return for gaining a mandate from the League of Nations to administer the Middle East. Instead he unilaterally and illegally created TransJordan. At first he claimed it was only temporary but then it was turned into a permanent non Jewish Palestinian state and tot his day its constitution forbids Jews from living there and in fact Jordan was created illegally seizing 90% of land promised to the Jews.

As Churchill said, the intention of the British was to never allow a Jewish state because they wanetd to placate their Arab allies for helping them defeat the Ottoman Empire and they felt they could control the Arabs in puppet states but not the Jews.

Churchill's memoirs are clear. The British in the 1920's and 30's implemented an immigration policy that flooded Palestine with Muslims from outside Palestinian who actually displaced the Muslim Palestinians in an effort to prevent Jews in the remaining areas of Palestine from forming a majority.

Anti-semtiism grew in intensity in Europe and in the 20's to 30's as Jews came to Palestine to join the Jews already there to escape the anti-semitism most of their aquisition of land was quite peaceful. They bought swamp land and reclaimed it for farming, something the Arab nomads at the time did not do. The violence between Arabs and Jews started in the early 20's instigated by he British, French and German egging on certain Arab families to attack other arab families perceived too friendly to the Jews.

The Mullah of Jerusalem then openly called for the genocide of Jews and as WW2 broke out he joined Hitler in Berlin living in a house stolen from a Jew where he broadcast regularly back to the Middle East extorting Arabs to kill as many Jews as possible.

The terrorism began to escalate throughout the 30's against Jewish civilians.

Jews who fled from concentration camps, the Nazis, and who got to the Middle East for the most part did not engage in terrorism but up to 1,000 joiend the Irgun and did.

When WW2 broke out of 470,000 Jews, in Palestine, 30,000 joined the British Armed Forces joined by Palestinian Arabs from a certain family.

The majority of Arabs in Egypt, Syria and Iraq identfiied with Hitler as they hated the British and French. The Baath party of these three governments was based on Nazi German's, their uniforms, their laws, the Hitler mustache, the goose-stepping, the Gestapo political police renamed Mukbarrat all brought in.

After WW2, Nazis flooded to Alexandria, Damascus and Baghdad where they ran the governments and armies.

The origins of today's terrorists came from the Fedayeen and Al Fatah, offshoots of terror cells inspired by the vision of Hitler to wipe out the Jews.

To this day Hamas and Hezbollah use the Hitler salute and goose-step. The Hitler mustache was worn by Nasser, Sadat and many other Arab leaders and people on the street.

Jewish terrorism was a minute portion of the Zionists. They did engage in terrorist acts though and for that the Haganah-Palmach openly challenegd them and turned them into the British. In fact Irgun joined the British during WW2 and ceased and desisted its terrorist attacks against civilians. The Stern Gang broke off and at one point made noise it would continue to fight the British during WW2 but once reports came in about the holocaust any of its members who identfiied with Mussolini and the Christian Felangiste right wingers in Lebanon soon withered away.

Make no mistake the actual use of the word Palestinian by Arabs to describe themselves as a people only arose in 1967 after Arafat failed to kill King Hussein of Jordan and take over that state.

It was only then he began describing his people as Palestinians. Up until then, he and every other terrorist fighting Israel (and Jordan which they also felt was an illegal state) ridiculed the notion of an Arab being a Palestinian.

The terrorists that would come in and attack Israel from the West Bank and Gaza were called Fatah or Fedayeen. Some were Palestinian, some Syrian, some Egyptian, etc.

When the 1967 war with the Arab League failed to get rid of Israel yet again, Israel moved into the West Bank to prevent terrorist attacks from the West Bank. In those days without satellite technology it used settlements as early warning posts to warn of incoming terrorists.

As time passed, those settlements were joiend by extremist Jews from New York, and apolitical Israelis who were desperate for a home and a tax break.

Israel's population grew because after the war of independence, it had to absorb over 700,000 Jews thrown out of Arab League nations in retaliation for them losing their war with Israel, then another 30-50 thousand Ethiopians, Russians, Indian, European and American Jews.

Ironically more Jews were displaced by the Arab League after the war than Palestinians during it.

Ironically to this day, most of the Palestininians displaced were displaced by fellow Muslims who flooded the area when Britain created an incentive program to flood the region to prevent a Jewish state.

Ironically after WW2 and even during it, Britain sent back Jews to their death in Germany when they tried to flee rather than let them enter Palestine. Then again McKenzie King sent back a ship load of Jews to their death as well and openlydescribed Jews as vermin. The British did not like Jews and in his memoirs Churchill admitted as much saying Europe never wanted them or understood them.

When Jews found themselves abandon after WW2 only Elenor Roosvelt stood up for them in the UN as a good will ambassador and if it was not for her Truman wasa refusing to recognize Israel.

To understand terrorism is to understand it started with a mix of Nazi German, French and British influence.

In the 1950s, a new and extremely radical leader, Sayyid Qutb, convinced his followers that the Quran justified the killing of fellow Muslims. In his book, “Milestones,” he encouraged a jihad to remove secular Muslim leaders and claimed it was the duty of all Muslims to return Islam to its former power and glory. Following strict Islamic law could only do this. Secular Muslims were put in a category with Christians and Jews—they were infidels.

Sayyid Qutb was also executed by the Egyptians in 1966, but the Islamic terrorist movement grew and expanded and now has branches of loyal followers in over 70 countries around the globe and these Islamic terrorists are more than willing to kill for their cause.

The embarrassing defeat of Islamic/Arab countries by the lowly “monkey-Jew” in the 1967 Six Day War gave fuel to the Islamic terrorist movement. This humiliating loss to the tiny Jewish state was proof for Islamic terrorists that secular Islamic states were against all that was Islamic. Islamic countries were defeated by a people that True Islam does not even consider human.

Mu'ammar Qaddaffi seized power in Libya in 1969 and he used Libya’s vast oil wealth to fund Islamic terror around the world. A decade later, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini overthrew the secular government in Iran by taking the American embassy personnel hostage and keeping them as prisoners for over a year.

The 1980s saw the Iranian-backed terror group, Hezbollah strike American troops on a peacekeeping mission in Lebanon and the American embassy was bombed. The United States made the tragic mistake of leaving Lebanon, and the Islamists saw this as a sign of weakness, and a rash of attacks on Americans continued unpunished around the world for the next two decades.

True Islam had its golden moment on 9/11 when it succeeded in attacking the “great Satan” on its own soil. Their bragging and celebration was brief. The American response to that attack took the terrorists by surprise. Believing America was a weak paper-tiger, I believe the invasion of Afghanistan surprised bin Laden. The loss of Afghanistan enraged the Islamists. Afghanistan was True Islam’s model for the world. Even more insulting was that the majority of Afghani people seemed to welcome the overthrow of the Taliban.

True Islam couldn’t care less about the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. The fact Saddam is Muslim means nothing to them. He was a secular infidel. Iraqi Muslims who wish to remain under a secular government are slaughtered like sheep because they too are considered un-Islamic infidels. Radical Islam knows this may well be its only chance to subjugate the Iraqi people under strict Islamic rule and take possession of an oil-rich terrorist training base. If True Islam were to gain control in Iraq, it would immediately join forces with Iran to wreck havoc on the world.

Once a great power, Islam has now been reduced to training the gullible to strap bombs on themselves and blow up a bus or train full of civilians. Radical Islamic leaders have only one goal: To make Islam the only religion, and to put Islamic leaders in command over the entire population of the world. To accomplish this, western civilization, Christianity, Judaism, secular Muslims, and all other non-Muslim forms of religious beliefs, must be exterminated.

There has been one important adjustment in True Islam’s plan. It no longer shuns modern weapons and technology. Indeed, Islamics believe that the detonation of nuclear weapons on American soil will bring them a quick victory. This is a serious miscalculation on True Islam’s part. A very deadly miscalculation.

If one studies the history of Islam and its violent roots, it is not difficult to understand it. Islamists have killed millions of people over the centuries and killing millions more to accomplish the goal of total Islamic rule does not disturb them.

The number of moderate-secular Muslims is declining as true Islam spreads its rage and hatred to every corner of the world. Time is short. Iran may be only months away from obtaining nuclear weapons. There are reports that several nuclear weapons are already here and in place in America. There can be no signs of weakness from the western world. There can be no negotiations or deals made with True Islam. There can be no quarter given.

History has taught us one thing: It is us, or them. There is no middle ground with terrorists. True Islam has not changed in 1400 years. It is not going to change now.

[Argus]

Royal commission, national TV, non-confidence?

And you expect me to respond to that? Why do you post statements that do nothing to move a topic but try to put other opinions in a ludicrous light? Why would anybody take your statements seriously and take the time to engage you in a discussion?

If you post something which sounds absurd and is wide open to interpretation don't blame others if they interpret it some way other than you may have intended.

You said, that if people were firing rockets at your people you would get the government to try to find out why they were firing them. Sounds like striking a commision to me, bud.

[Argus]

This is a good opportunity to examine the origins of the origins of terrorism in regards to the creation of Israel.

Rue, with all due respect, you do realize that the number of people who will actually read your post is a direct reciprical of how long your post is, right?

[Argus]

A short-term reduction in their military capability and a boost in popular support? They must be terrified.

Maybe their public should consider not upping their support every time Hamas gets a few hundred of them killed...

Just a thought.

[Argus]

So the Israeli government is assisting Hamas in its goals so that it can stay in power?

I would say that the Likud government and Hamas are both taking out their anger on each other at the expense of the respective civilian populations which, despite that, support them both in what they're doing.

[Big Guy]

If you post something which sounds absurd and is wide open to interpretation don't blame others if they interpret it some way other than you may have intended.

You said, that if people were firing rockets at your people you would get the government to try to find out why they were firing them. Sounds like striking a commision to me, bud.

And this is supposed to convince people to take you seriously? And this "bud" thing is supposed to make your unfriendly and rude responses somehow more palatable? Why do you even bother?

[Argus]

Argus is either intentionally or unintentionally giving a false narrative of what is going on.

He is trying to give the impression that it's Israel who is the victim of an aggressive foreign entity and that all it's doing is defensive.

Israel will always give an excuse for not stopping the occupation, land theft and not allowing a Palestinians State to be formed.

If you mean there's reasons people and nations do things, well, that's hardly a surprise. In this case, Hamas is saying they won't stop firing rockets until Israel allows Palestinians to freely cross into Israel again, which is laughable since it was their anti-Israeli violence which got them closed out of Israel in the first place.

In this particular instance, it seems reasonably clear the Palestinians stared the fighting, and refuse to stop.

[Argus]

Why do you even bother?

Why do you?

[Big Guy]

...

History has taught us one thing: It is us, or them. There is no middle ground with terrorists. True Islam has not changed in 1400 years. It is not going to change now.

Thank you for your honesty. It appears that you equate your understanding of "True" Islam with terrorism. This explains your attitude to all of the other issues related to this conflict and this thread. It is a unique and interesting view.

[Big Guy]

...

Israel will always give an excuse for not stopping the occupation, land theft and not allowing a Palestinians State to be formed.

...

Israel will continue to do what it thinks is best in the long run for Israel. Hamas will keep doing what it thinks is the best in the long run for Palestinians.

Israel will continue to have a great advantage in any military conflict and inflict far more casualties on the Palestinians than it absorbs. The Palestinians will continue to suffer disproportionate losses and gain more support from other world nations.

And innocent civilians will continue to die in both camps.

There is only one end to a conflict where two groups hold a death grip on each other.

[jbg]

Hamas is a terror group, and not a recognized national military of Palestine. Israel won't allow Palestine to have a standing army. So by default, Israel is always going to be fighting 'terrorists'. Terror groups will never abide by so called 'rules of war'. I will say there are no rules of war aside from one. The only rule is to win by whatever means.

Are you saying that Israel should foster the creation of a standing army to butcher its citizens?

[Boges]

So what's Hamas' end game here? This spiffy Iron Dome thing ensures they can't really inflict any damage on Israel while Israel can inflict a lot of damage on them.

Before they could have replenished their rocket supply through Egypt. Well now Egypt is run by Anti-Islamists so that might not work anymore.

Also what's wrong with Israel being a Jewish state? Aren't all the surrounding Nations Islamic States?

Hypocrisy much?

[jbg]

Also what's wrong with Israel being a Jewish state? Aren't all the surrounding Nations Islamic States?

Hypocrisy much?

They don't want a non-Islamic state in the ummah. And the world opinion is by and large driven by anti-Judaism, though dressed up in modern clothes.

[scribblet]

So what's Hamas' end game here? This spiffy Iron Dome thing ensures they can't really inflict any damage on Israel while Israel can inflict a lot of damage on them.

Before they could have replenished their rocket supply through Egypt. Well now Egypt is run by Anti-Islamists so that might not work anymore.

Also what's wrong with Israel being a Jewish state? Aren't all the surrounding Nations Islamic States?

Hypocrisy much?

Hamas likes to get their body count up as it plays well to the anti Israel types, As opined in the http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hamas-is-playing-a-dangerous-game-with-gazan-lives/2014/07/15/cc5f101e-0c3b-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html,

The Islamic movement calculates that it can win the concessions it has yet to obtain from Israel and Egypt not by striking Israel but by perpetuating the killing of its own people in Israeli counterattacks. More than 200 people, including a number of children, have already died in Gaza; Hamas probably calculates that more deaths will prompt Western governments to pressure Israel to grant Hamas’s demands.

Stomach turning indeed

[Boges]

Using civilians as pawns is more than despicable.

More-so the rest of the Muslim world is using the Palestinians as pawns. They don't really have their back, they'll just try to fund their proxy war against Israel and allow the Palestinians to get slaughtered. Oh I know why, Palestinians are Sunni! Perhaps their buds in ISIS can hook them up.

But Israel are the bad guys.

I read this morning that Hamas picked really bad time to do this because their sugar daddy's are kind of occupied in Iraq and Syria to care about little Gaza.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Boges

[eyeball]

Like hypocrisy, such despicable hope always springs eternal. Take Paul Wolfowitz's hope for a galvanizing event for example.

[dre]

So what's Hamas' end game here? This spiffy Iron Dome thing ensures they can't really inflict any damage on Israel while Israel can inflict a lot of damage on them.

Before they could have replenished their rocket supply through Egypt. Well now Egypt is run by Anti-Islamists so that might not work anymore.

Also what's wrong with Israel being a Jewish state? Aren't all the surrounding Nations Islamic States?

Hypocrisy much?

I personally find the concept of religious states in general to be repugnant regardless of which religion it is.

[Boges]

I personally find the concept of religious states in general to be repugnant regardless of which religion it is.

Fair enough, but it's kind of hilarious that the deal breaker of a peace deal was that Israel would be a "Jewish" state, when I'll be willing to bet an important internal organ that a State called Palestine would be an Islamic Republic.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Boges

[GostHacked]

Using civilians as pawns is more than despicable.

More-so the rest of the Muslim world is using the Palestinians as pawns. They don't really have their back, they'll just try to fund their proxy war against Israel and allow the Palestinians to get slaughtered. Oh I know why, Palestinians are Sunni! Perhaps their buds in ISIS can hook them up.

But Israel are the bad guys.

Israel is not exactly an innocent player here. We can talk about a wider context involving the Isreali attacks on Iran's nuclear facility through cyber terrorism. A few scientists getting popped. Iran's Revolutionary guard sites attacked.

Israel using the USA as a proxy for it's goals. But I fail to see how the Palestinians are being used as pawns in their struggle, when we see nothing but hard religious divisions in Islamic countries. Sunni, Shiite, Sufi, ect. Yemen, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, all going through so called civil wars perpetuated by foreign entities to continue that division.

I read this morning that Hamas picked really bad time to do this because their sugar daddy's are kind of occupied in Iraq and Syria to care about little Gaza.

The leaflet campaign is strange. 'Leave your home before the bombs fall.' Where would one run to?

[dre]

Fair enough, but it's kind of hilarious that the deal breaker of a peace deal was that Israel would be a "Jewish" state, when I'll be willing to bet an important internal organ that a State called Palestine would be an Islamic Republic.

I agree, all thats required is for Israels neighbors to recognize their sovereignty. The demand to be specifically recognized as "jewish" appears to be an attempt to make sure no resolution happens.

In any case the Likud party will never allow any Arab state west of the Jordan PERIOD... its right in their constitution. So the whole idea of a negotiated solution is a farce anyways. Israel with their current leadership has absolutely no intentions negotiating anything.

[Boges]

Israel is not exactly an innocent player here. We can talk about a wider context involving the Isreali attacks on Iran's nuclear facility through cyber terrorism. A few scientists getting popped. Iran's Revolutionary guard sites attacked.

Well Iran's Hama' sugar daddy much like the relationship between Israel and the US. But Iran wants Israel gone

Israel using the USA as a proxy for it's goals. But I fail to see how the Palestinians are being used as pawns in their struggle, when we see nothing but hard religious divisions in Islamic countries. Sunni, Shiite, Sufi, ect. Yemen, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, all going through so called civil wars perpetuated by foreign entities to continue that division.

Which is why ISIS v the Shiites makes Hamas' decision to go to war with Israel now perplexing. Also because the Sunni's in Egypt got deposed last year so they're pretty much on their own.

The leaflet campaign is strange. 'Leave your home before the bombs fall.' Where would one run to?

Not where they are now. It's an attempt to show everyone that they don't want kill civilians.

[Boges]

I agree, all thats required is for Israels neighbors to recognize their sovereignty. The demand to be specifically recognized as "jewish" appears to be an attempt to make sure no resolution happens.

In any case the Likud party will never allow any Arab state west of the Jordan PERIOD... its right in their constitution. So the whole idea of a negotiated solution is a farce anyways. Israel with their current leadership has absolutely no intentions negotiating anything.

Which is why this conflict will continue indefinitely.