cybercoma Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 What about those illegal settlements? How is Israel fulfilling its peace commitments? . Illegal occupation is enough for you to justify targeting innocent civilians with rockets? Quote
Smallc Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 What about those illegal settlements? How is Israel fulfilling its peace commitments? . Are the settlements killing people? The rockets are, or are at least attempting too. The settlements should stop, yes, but that will only happen when the extremists stop targeting Israel and try to end things peacefully. Quote
jacee Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Does it anger you that Hamas is launching rockets from residential areas and using innocent people in Gaza as human shields to target innocent civilians in Israel?It bothers me a great deal that Israel refuses to live within its legal borders, is a chronic aggressor and has no real commitment to peace.The rockets from Gaza are irritating, but haven't been particularly harmful. Israel's aggressive and deadly response is disgusting ... once again ... and it is Israel's actions that prevent two-state peace. . Edited July 14, 2014 by jacee Quote
jacee Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 Are the settlements killing people? The rockets are, or are at least attempting too. The settlements should stop, yes, but that will only happen when the extremists stop targeting Israel and try to end things peacefully. Aggressive settlements in Palestinian territory must cease. . Quote
Smallc Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 Aggressive settlements in Palestinian territory must cease. . As must the rockets and the rhetoric. I must say when you take the side of terrorists over a democratic government you really lose your argument without trying. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 Does it anger you that Hamas is launching rockets from residential areas and using innocent people in Gaza as human shields to target innocent civilians in Israel? I'm sure it happens, but not to the extend that the Israeli PR tries to portray the situation to be. This was proven during Cast Lead where different fact finding missions by human rights groups and Goldstone proved that Israel indiscriminatory attacked civilians in the form of collective punishment. This is a war crime. You're hanging onto a repeated excuse for killing civilians. Not only has it been proven to be mostly false, but it's never an excuse to kill civilians. This is about Israel using this as an excuse to derail the unity government and to provoke Palestinians to respond. It's an old trick. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
jacee Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 Illegal occupation is enough for you to justify targeting innocent civilians with rockets? I don't see any evidence of 'targeting' ... or hitting much of anything. Except Israel targeting innocent children. Disgusting. . Quote
Hudson Jones Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 As must the rockets and the rhetoric. I must say when you take the side of terrorists over a democratic government you really lose your argument without trying. Just because they were democratically elected, it doesn't mean that they get a pass for killing people. What a strange argument. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 From what I have seen, rockets from Gaza are a response to Israel's actions. You can hold onto the false premise that Hamas sends rockets without provocation and for no reason but to kill innocent people, but one look at the timeline shows that these homemade rockets, which rarely ever kill anyone and fizz out before they even reach Israel, have been launched as a response to Israel bombing, killing, kidnapping and provoking. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
jacee Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 As must the rockets and the rhetoric. I must say when you take the side of terrorists over a democratic government you really lose your argument without trying. A government that continues to aggressively expand outside it's legal borders ... is an aggressor state, a rogue state. Those who fight back to defend their territory from the aggressor ... well ... you can call them names if you like, but they have every right to fight back against Israel's encroachments. . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 Then let them fight....so effective thus far in pushing back the hated occupiers, eh ? What is today's score...not that I believe the Palestinian counts anyway. The Israelis can still go to the mall. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jacee Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 If some group was launching rockets at innocent civilians in Canada, would you even dream of suggesting that we don't fight back with force? If Canada was invading their territory with illegal settlements? . Quote
Hudson Jones Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 The claim that Hamas is using civilians as "human shields" is based on the fact that Gazan militants live among the civilian population and keep much of their weaponry in the neighborhoods. But this is hypocrisy; every guerrilla army that fights on its own turf against an incomparably stronger enemy fights from among the civilian population. The pre-1948 Irgun and Lehi guerrillas would kill the British, then “melt back” into the Jewish neighborhoods. In Tel Aviv and Ramat Gan, there are civilian public buildings – including schools – with plaques at the entrance telling how they housed weapons caches and training camps for the Irgun, Lehi or Haganah. Up through Israel’s War of Independence, the kibbutzim were military outposts as much as they were civilian settlements. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 By the way, here is the photo of Israelis sitting down, watching and cheering while Gazans are bombed Link Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hal 9000 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 The claim that Hamas is using civilians as "human shields" is based on the fact that Gazan militants live among the civilian population and keep much of their weaponry in the neighborhoods. But this is hypocrisy; every guerrilla army that fights on its own turf against an incomparably stronger enemy fights from among the civilian population. The pre-1948 Irgun and Lehi guerrillas would kill the British, then “melt back” into the Jewish neighborhoods. In Tel Aviv and Ramat Gan, there are civilian public buildings – including schools – with plaques at the entrance telling how they housed weapons caches and training camps for the Irgun, Lehi or Haganah. Up through Israel’s War of Independence, the kibbutzim were military outposts as much as they were civilian settlements. You guys talk about fairness, proportion and whatnot in fighting, yet you support the side that sets off rockets then hides behind their children. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Hudson Jones Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 Hal9000 - If you are going to press reply and quote a post, your comment should be a reply to the post. The houses of junior and senior Hamas members are being bombed with and without children there and the IDF and their apologists say these are legitimate targets? Is there a Jewish home in Israel that does not shelter a commander who has helped plan or wage an offensive? Or a soldier who hasn’t shot at or will shoot at a Palestinian? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Black Dog Posted July 14, 2014 Report Posted July 14, 2014 If some group was launching rockets at innocent civilians in Canada, would you even dream of suggesting that we don't fight back with force? Why ever would you say such a silly thing? I'd be open to force, naturally. But I would also be supportive of measures that would, you know, end the threat. Quote
Big Guy Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 Watching TV tonight on PBS. The American who tried to broker the last peace between these two combatants stated that his position was impossible. He said that the basis of any mediation or negotiation was that the two parties wanted a resolution to the conflict. He said that in his estimation, neither party wanted a resolution and was quite prepared to continue with the status quo. Makes sense of why there is no progress towards peace. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
jbg Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 And ya, the bombs killing children ... Because Hamas won't lick Israel's boots? That's just sick. . Is recognizing Israel as a Jewish state "lick(ing) Israel's boots"? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) Is recognizing Israel as a Jewish state "lick(ing) Israel's boots"? It's an unnecessary obstruction. Israel is a state, can be whatever it wants. Palestine will be too. Two states that at some point may recognize each other ... or not. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it only matters that the mass killing stops. Maybe Israel's bargaining credibility is getting smaller every day. . Edited July 15, 2014 by jacee Quote
cybercoma Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 It bothers me a great deal that Israel refuses to live within its legal borders, is a chronic aggressor and has no real commitment to peace. The rockets from Gaza are irritating, but haven't been particularly harmful. Israel's aggressive and deadly response is disgusting ... once again ... and it is Israel's actions that prevent two-state peace. . So someone camping in your backyard is worse than someone attempting to kill your family. That about right? Quote
cybercoma Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 I'm sure it happens, but not to the extend that the Israeli PR tries to portray the situation to be. This was proven during Cast Lead where different fact finding missions by human rights groups and Goldstone proved that Israel indiscriminatory attacked civilians in the form of collective punishment. This is a war crime. You're hanging onto a repeated excuse for killing civilians. Not only has it been proven to be mostly false, but it's never an excuse to kill civilians. This is about Israel using this as an excuse to derail the unity government and to provoke Palestinians to respond. It's an old trick. So having rockets target innocent civilians in your border is an "excuse" for retaliation? Would you not expect our government to retaliate in that situation? Quote
cybercoma Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 I don't see any evidence of 'targeting' ... or hitting much of anything. Except Israel targeting innocent children. Disgusting. . Then you're unequivocally biased because you are ignoring a very important fact of the matter to suit your anti-Israel agenda. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 If Canada was invading their territory with illegal settlements? . So targeting civilians is justified then? Except only when it's Palestinians doing it? Quote
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