Encouraging Developments Against Zionist Apartheid Regime!

[bush_cheney2004]

....All Israelis will suffer the consequences of international revulsion at the acts of the Israeli government and military.

That's just reality.

.

False...many Israelis won't suffer at all. That's the idea. Some don't even live in Israel, but return to serve in the IDF.

[Black Dog]

This actually makes my point for me....yada...yada...yada.

Aw, poor trollbot. It's ok: you still have Canadian immigration to the U.S. or some other unrelated factoid to fall back on. I'd avoid the anecdote about your admiration for Nazi war criminals though, might not be the right topic for that one.

[bush_cheney2004]

Report and ignore personal attacks.

[jbg]

A state whose security is controlled by another is not independent. It's just that simple.

Japan? Germany? Italy? Are these not independent countries?

[jbg]

Dog - Look at the murderous facts and stop supporting murder and pretending murderers shouldn't be driven out of the human race, racist scum, as they are.!

Sorry, the Jews are not going away. Despite the best efforts of your ilk over millenia, we are not about to be driven out of the human race.

[Bonam]

You appear to have an exceptional insight into this issue - and I mean that as a compliment.

What is your opinion of the JDL? They make no secret that their mandate is to; ""protect Jews from anti-Semitism by whatever means necessary". Sounds to me like the end will justify the means. Would you consider this group to be ; nationalists or zealots or Zionists or terrorists or thugs or ... What percentage of the Jewish population of Israel do you think they represent?

The group, at it's peak, had 15,000 members. If one assumes these were all Jewish, then it represented approximately one in a thousand Jews.

[Black Dog]

Japan? Germany? Italy? Are these not independent countries?

Do they allow others to control their borders and airspace?

[TimG]

Do they allow others to control their borders and airspace?

I think the point was for decades after WW2 both of these countries had a foreign military present in order to "ensure security". Why wouldn't a similar arrangement work for Palestine in the decade after a 2-state solution? Edited July 30, 2014 by TimG

[GostHacked]

I think the point was for decades after WW2 both of these countries had a foreign military present in order to "ensure security". Why wouldn't a similar arrangement work for Palestine in the decade after a 2-state solution?

Two major differences.

Japan and Germany did not take 60 years. The occupier does not want to relinquish the land.

[Black Dog]

I think the point was for decades after WW2 both of these countries had a foreign military present in order to "ensure security". Why wouldn't a similar arrangement work for Palestine in the decade after a 2-state solution?

Are you talking about military occupation? Because clearly a country under military occupation is not a sovereign state.

Now if you are talking about the period after the end of the formal occupation, the analogy still doesn't hold up as all the countries had their own armed forces and were ultimately in control of their own borders and airspace, even if they worked in partnership with other nations on security issues.

[jbg]

Do they allow others to control their borders and airspace?

I believe that NATO forces (read the U.S. and Britain) effectively control their airspace. Japan, for sure.

Are you talking about military occupation? Because clearly a country under military occupation is not a sovereign state.

Now if you are talking about the period after the end of the formal occupation, the analogy still doesn't hold up as all the countries had their own armed forces and were ultimately in control of their own borders and airspace, even if they worked in partnership with other nations on security issues.

I believe that if any of those countries wanted to resume an Axis-type alliance against the West the U.S.'s presence would not be much of a "partnership." In effect the U.S. is occupying those countries.

Now closer to home Canada controls the airspace and military access to Angle Country (link explaining Angle Country) and Point Roberts (link explaining Point Roberts). Are you going to say those are examples of "open-air prisons (link)."

Edited July 30, 2014 by jbg

[dre]

I think the point was for decades after WW2 both of these countries had a foreign military present in order to "ensure security". Why wouldn't a similar arrangement work for Palestine in the decade after a 2-state solution?

Yes... There isnt going to be any two state solution, but if there ever was the presense of some kind of force to stop them from poking at each other would be essential. Sorta like an adult supervising two retarded belligerent children that are fighting over space in a sandbox.

They would have their work cut out for them though because these particular children are EXTRA retarded and EXTRA belligerent and the sandbox is a piece of crap.

[Black Dog]

I believe that NATO forces (read the U.S. and Britain) effectively control their airspace. Japan, for sure.

Cite?

I believe that if any of those countries wanted to resume an Axis-type alliance against the West the U.S.'s presence would not be much of a "partnership." In effect the U.S. is occupying those countries.

You could have maybe made that argument during the Cold War. Not now.

Now closer to home Canada controls the airspace and military access to Angle Country (link explaining Angle Country) and Point Roberts (link explaining Point Roberts). Are you going to say those are examples of "open-air prisons (link)."

Surely you aren't really as fatuous as this?

[jbg]

I believe that NATO forces (read the U.S. and Britain) effectively control their airspace. Japan, for sure.

Cite?

As for Japan, see this link. While the treaty is "mutual" the U.S. is clearly in the driver's seat. My understanding is that in all cases such as Japan's there is an evolution but the U.S. and NATO (in the case of Europe) play a dominant role.

I believe that if any of those countries wanted to resume an Axis-type alliance against the West the U.S.'s presence would not be much of a "partnership." In effect the U.S. is occupying those countries.

You could have maybe made that argument during the Cold War. Not now.

Cite?

Now closer to home Canada controls the airspace and military access to Angle Country (link explaining Angle Country) and Point Roberts (link explaining Point Roberts). Are you going to say those are examples of "open-air prisons (link)."

Surely you aren't really as fatuous as this?

Not fatuous at all. In theory Canada could harass these exclaves. In theory the U.S. citizens in these exclaves could start digging terror tunnels and picking off random Canadians, especially in the Vancouver area near Point Roberts. It's lucky that our two countries have not chosen a path of hatred, war and death. Hamas has.

[dre]

It's lucky that our two countries have not chosen a path of hatred, war and death. Hamas has.

Significant elements in both the Palestinian and Israel populations chose this path long before Hamas even existed.

[Black Dog]

As for Japan, see this link. While the treaty is "mutual" the U.S. is clearly in the driver's seat. My understanding is that in all cases such as Japan's there is an evolution but the U.S. and NATO (in the case of Europe) play a dominant role.

Your cite is a link to a paywall-protected article. For what it's worth, Japan's military is limited in how it can operate, but the U.S. doesn't get a say. Germany has similar constitutional limitations, but, again, they dictate their own defense policy and have since re-unification.

Cite?

See article 7.

Not fatuous at all. In theory Canada could harass these exclaves. In theory the U.S. citizens in these exclaves could start digging terror tunnels and picking off random Canadians, especially in the Vancouver area near Point Roberts. It's lucky that our two countries have not chosen a path of hatred, war and death. Hamas has.

And this has what to do with the two-state solution and what constitutes a sovereign state? Right: bugger all.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Not fatuous at all. In theory Canada could harass these exclaves. In theory the U.S. citizens in these exclaves could start digging terror tunnels and picking off random Canadians, especially in the Vancouver area near Point Roberts. It's lucky that our two countries have not chosen a path of hatred, war and death. Hamas has.

Canadians already dig terror tunnels to the U.S. in order to smuggle drugs.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/21/border.tunnel/index.html?_s=PM:US

[jbg]

Canadians already dig terror tunnels to the U.S. in order to smuggle drugs.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/21/border.tunnel/index.html?_s=PM:US

Criminals dug those tunnels. Not the Canadian government.

[Bonam]

Yes... There isnt going to be any two state solution, but if there ever was the presense of some kind of force to stop them from poking at each other would be essential. Sorta like an adult supervising two retarded belligerent children that are fighting over space in a sandbox.

Who the heck would want that job? Existing UN forces in Lebanon and Palestine cooperate with terrorists and allow terrorists to store and use their weapons from UN facilities.

[dre]

Who the heck would want that job? Existing UN forces in Lebanon and Palestine cooperate with terrorists and allow terrorists to store and use their weapons from UN facilities.

Cite showing UN collaboration with terrorists please?

[Bonam]

Cite showing UN collaboration with terrorists please?

Not a ton of time right now, I can find more cites later, but here's one:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/20/did-the-united-nations-give-rockets-to-hamas.html

- UN handing over rockets to Hamas

- Militants firing rockets from UN facilities

- Weapons facilities built directly adjacent to UN facilities

I saw more stories from the recent violence where Hamas militants were basically holing up in UN-run schools in Gaza.

[Argus]

Two major differences.

Japan and Germany did not take 60 years. The occupier does not want to relinquish the land.

Japan and Germany didn't spend the entire time desperately trying to kill Americans either. Instead they cooperated to rebuild and modernize their countries. D'you think maybe that might account for 'the occupier' being reluctant to grant them the right to build up their own army?

[iolo]

The Americans stand to gain from a prosperous world, whereas the Zionist racists just want to kill everyone. We all know this, but their chums have power, as we know, and a lot of people find it politic to pretend..

[GostHacked]

Japan and Germany didn't spend the entire time desperately trying to kill Americans either. Instead they cooperated to rebuild and modernize their countries. D'you think maybe that might account for 'the occupier' being reluctant to grant them the right to build up their own army?

Japan and Germany were half a world away. Gaza and Israel are right next to each other.

[jbg]

The Americans stand to gain from a prosperous world, whereas the Zionist racists just want to kill everyone. We all know this, but their chums have power, as we know, and a lot of people find it politic to pretend..

Yes. Zionists are blowing up night clubs in Berlin and blowing airliners out of the sky over Lockerbie. Go figure.