Encouraging Developments Against Zionist Apartheid Regime!

[marcus]

It is about security.

No Tim. We are not stupid here.

Increasing illegal settlements is NOT about security.

Demolishing Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem to make way for Jewish only homes is NOT about security.

Stealing water from Palestinian land is NOT about security.

Annexing more Palestinian land is NOT about security.

People will not buy this B.S. anymore. Apartheid South Africa did the same thing and dragged their foot until people didn't take it anymore. People are not going to buy your B.S.

Edited July 27, 2014 by marcus

[TimG]

They are already past the point as shown by the steps taken by Europe and many organizations who are boycotting and divesting from Israel.

A movement which is finding more and more high profile people simply reject it as the nonsensical bigotry it is.

Question for you: lets say Israel withdraws from the West Bank and stops enforcing the embargo on Gaza and lets them import as many weapons as they like. What happens when extremists start attacking Israel? Do you think that Israel should sit back as let their people be killed?

Edited July 27, 2014 by TimG

[TimG]

People will not buy this B.S. anymore. Apartheid South Africa did the same thing and dragged their food until people didn't take it anymore. People are not going to buy your B.S.

The response current round of fighting seems to suggest that people are not buying the BS that comes from anti-Israel bigots anymore.

[jacee]

Any intelligent person already knew what the Israeli government wants. Finally this came out of the leader:

Benjamin Netanyahu Stops Pretending To Support A Sovereign Palestinian State

You were saying?

Link doesnt work, but I found it:

There cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan," he said July 11 at a press conference. But if Israel doesn't relinquish security control, Palestinians cannot establish a state.

...

None of this should be terribly surprising, as Netanyahu had long opposed a two-state solution before his recent engagement with the Obama administration on the issue. Of course, while he was supposedly negotiating a two-state solution in good faith, his administration doubled settlements in the West Bank and created a far-right-wing governing coalition largely opposed to a Palestinian state.

And then this piece of good news:

Netanyahu's statements come as this far-right coalition has begun to fracture in light of the current military operations in Gaza.

Israel's right wing regime will fall sooner or later. The more Palestinian civilians they kill, the sooner their own people will throw them out in revulsion.

.

Edited July 27, 2014 by jacee

[jacee]

That is rich. You want to lecture people about context but completely ignore the context behind Israel's blockade of Gaza which was entirely in reaction to the election of Hamas and Hamas's refusal to honour agreements that were already signed.

Also: the other context which you ignore: the blockade would have no meaning if Egypt did not enforce it all well. Do you ever criticize Egypt for this or is your opprobrium reserved for Jews?

Nice attempt to distract.

NOTHING justifies Israel's murder of thousands of Palestinian civilians.

.

Edited July 27, 2014 by jacee

[marcus]

A movement which is finding more an more high profile people simply reject it as the nonsensical bigotry.

No one cares for the high profile people, such as Tony Blair to accept this. They are being side-stepped. The boycott and divestment runs deeper than this and it has become a powerful non-governmental movement. Zionists are worried and for good reason. Schools and large Pension funds have divested from Israeli companies that profit from the settlements. The divestment has recently spilled over to European corporations, like Dutch pension fund PGGM and Danish financial institution Danske Bank

Yair Lapid and Tzipi Livni, have voiced concern over the danger of a widening boycott like that seen against South Africa in the 1980s.

So you can put your head in the sand and pretend this is not happening, but it's happening.

Question for you: lets say Israel withdraws from the West Bank and stops enforcing the embargo on Gaza and lets them import as many weapons as they like. What happens when extremists start attacking Israel? Do you think that Israel should just do nothing?

Then Israel should do what it needs to; Defend itself.

There is NO excuse for Israel not to allow a Palestinian State. Not recognizing Palestinian and stealing their land is the act of a rogue state.

[jacee]

The response current round of fighting seems to suggest that people are not buying the BS that comes from anti-Israel bigots anymore.

LINK?

.

[jbg]

Israel already exists.

Israel doesn't need Hamas' approval.

Why does Israel continue to embarass itself by groveling for approval from Hamas?

Hamas isn't the negotiating body for peace.

Hamas is just Israel's excuse for sustaining war against Palestinians, continuing its aggressive invasion of Palestinian territory with illegal 'settlements', refusing to live within its legal borders.

Hamas is the body currently attacking Israel. And its leader, in an interview televised this morning on CBS's "Face the Nation" said he would not accept Israel as a Jewish state, and that any such recognition would bt up to a Palestinian state.

Israel doesn't want peace:

Israel wants Palestine.

Israel isn't digging tunnels to attack Gaza. Israel isn't spearheading the kidnapping of Gazan teens. Israel did not, on its first day of independence, launch armies into its neighbors. Israel didn't butcher the Egyptian or Jordanian Olympic team.

Nothing gives the "Palestianians" a G-d given right to a state, or to engaged in combat for one. Even during the apartheid era you didn't see Lesotho or Swaziland building tunnels into South Africa using U.N. money and donated charitable money.

[dre]

So what would you have them do to stop Hamas from firing rockets at their cities? Beg?

They are strengthening Hamas with these actions, and getting a lot of political support for them that wasnt there before. Israel knows this of course, and they do it on purpose. The very last thing Israel would ever want is for Palestinians to stop attacking them... If that happened they would lose the justification they are using to continue the occupation and would stand to lose all the vital national infrastructure they have in the occupied territories not to mention 2/3rds of their water supply.

[dre]

Nothing gives the "Palestianians" a G-d given right to a state, or to engaged in combat for one. Even during the apartheid era you didn't see Lesotho or Swaziland building tunnels into South Africa using U.N. money and donated charitable money.

Well there IS no god to give anyone a state. But the Palestinians are a population of millions of people with their own territory that is not part of any other state around them. So as much as youd like to see them all dead or cleansed from the region, thats good enough for most people.

[dre]

It is about security.

No this is a garden variety dust-up over land and vital resources. Palestinians want the land and resources... Israel wants the land and resources. That sets the stage for CONFLICT: DIRTFARM.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yep....same thing happened in North America. Still is....at least Israel hasn't set up residential schools !

[jbg]

Well there IS no god to give anyone a state. But the Palestinians are a population of millions of people with their own territory that is not part of any other state around them. So as much as youd like to see them all dead or cleansed from the region, thats good enough for most people.

So are the Tibetans. So are the Kurile Islanders. So are the Ukrainians living in the eastern portion of Ukraine. So are Christian schoolgirls wishing for an education in Nigeria.

[dre]

So are the Tibetans. So are the Kurile Islanders. So are the Ukrainians living in the eastern portion of Ukraine. So are Christian schoolgirls wishing for an education in Nigeria.

Tibet should get its own state, the Kurile Islanders dont want one, and the incoherent babble about Christian schoollgirls warrants no response.

[TimG]

But the Palestinians are a population of millions of people with their own territory that is not part of any other state around them.

Whatever economy this "state" may have depends entirely on having open borders with Israel. This means that if Palestinians want a state they have to first demonstrate that they are capable of ensuring that terrorists don't use their state as a staging ground for attacks on Israel. So far, the Palestinians have failed to demonstrate this which means their desire for a state is quite irrelevant. Edited July 27, 2014 by TimG

[dre]

Whatever economy this "state" may have depends entirely on having open borders with Israel. This means that if Palestinians want a state they have to first demonstrate that they are capable of ensuring that terrorists don't use their state as a staging ground for attacks on Israel. So far, the Palestinians have failed to demonstrate this which means their desire for a state is quite irrelevant.

That doesnt work because Israel has absolutely no plans of allowing a state whether the palestinians stop the violence or not. Abas has managed to stop most of the violence origionating from the west bank, jailed militants etc.... The Israeli response is to expand settlement building and end dialog with him.

Israel plans to keep permanently all the land of any value, and nothing the palestinians do will change that in the slightest.

[marcus]

The world has an overwhelming unfavourable view of Israel. U.S. is the only country with a favourable view. This is mostly due to the one-sided, controlled media in the U.S. as it has been shown from research, where "Palestinians attack and Israel defends".

US is only western country with favorable views of Israel

And the news only gets worse. Here are some of the highlights from the BBC poll:

• On average, in the 22 tracking countries surveyed both in 2012 and 2013, 52 percent of respondents had negative views of Israel’s influence in the world, an increase of two points from last year.

• Out of the 25 countries polled in 2013, 20 lean negative, three lean positive, and two are divided.

• The United States is the only Western country surveyed holding favorable views of Israel, and the only country in the survey with a majority of positive ratings (51 percent, stable).

• Views of Israel in Canada and in Australia remain entrenched in negative territory with respectively 57 and 69 percent of unfavourable views.

• In the EU countries surveyed, views of Israeli influence are all strongly negative and have either hardened further or remained stable.

• The United Kingdom is the most unfavorable country towards Israel in the EU with 72 percent of Britons holding negative ratings.

• The UK is followed by Spain (70% negative) where views have deteriorated due to a loss of positive ratings, now at just 4 percent (down from 12 perent).

• Positive views have dropped eight points in Germany over the past year, down to 8 percent in 2013 while negative inclinations have remained stable at 67 percent.

• In France, the picture is stable with 21 percent giving positive views (vs 63 percent negative) France is the EU country with the highest proportion of favorable ratings.

• Newly asked countries Poland and Greece have negative pluralities of 44 and 46 percent respectively, while just 15 percent lean positively towards Israel in both countries.

Edited July 27, 2014 by marcus

[Argus]

No Tim. We are not stupid here.

Would you care to hold a vote on that?

[TimG]

That doesnt work because Israel has absolutely no plans of allowing a state whether the palestinians stop the violence or not.

Really? You are not in any position to make claims about Israeli intent.

Abas has managed to stop most of the violence origionating from the west bank, jailed militants etc.... The Israeli response is to expand settlement building and end dialog with him.

And in 2007 Palestinians elected Hamas - a group that rejects the notion of reconciliation. This kind of made any gestures Abas made moot.

Israel plans to keep permanently all the land of any value, and nothing the palestinians do will change that in the slightest.

Most of the land in that area only has value because of Israelis who have build a modern economy with the infrastructure required to support it. Edited July 27, 2014 by TimG

[Argus]

Nice attempt to distract.

NOTHING justifies Israel's murder of thousands of Palestinian civilians.

.

Nonsense. You're just upset that it's Jews doing the killing. You don't care about the thousands and tens of thousands being killed in a dozen other conflicts around the world because they don't involve Jews.

If Palestine was on our border and firing rockets at Vancouver we'd reduce the entire place to rubble, if necessary, to get them to stop.

And if that killed a whole lot of people over there, well, that's sad but not our fault.

[Argus]

They are strengthening Hamas with these actions, and getting a lot of political support for them that wasnt there before.

So you're saying the Palestinian people wholeheartedly support Hamas firing rockets into Israel?

That would pretty much mean it's their own fault if they get bombed.

[Argus]

The world has an overwhelming unfavourable view of Israel.

Most of the world is made up of people who are vastly ignorant about anything that isn't on reality television. They don't matter. The people who matter know what's important.

[bush_cheney2004]

Nonsense. You're just upset that it's Jews doing the killing. You don't care about the thousands and tens of thousands being killed in a dozen other conflicts around the world because they don't involve Jews.

This appears to be the case, because many other current conflicts in the world resulting in far more civilian deaths and injuries do not garner as much attention as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in this forum. Has nothing to do with western democracy or alliances....it is what it is because it involves Israel, a "Jewish" state.

[bush_cheney2004]

Israel and the USA are BFFs...nothing that happens in Gaza is going to change that. Hamas' benefactor Iran actualy has lower "world opinion", as if that matters for squat.

[marcus]

Would you care to hold a vote on that?

Why don't you try to respond to the responses to your disinformation instead of your typical drive-by disinformation or worrying about polling?