Big Guy Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 The pipeline has been approved - with certain conditions; http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/northern-gateway-pipeline-approved-with-209-conditions-1.2678285 Is this a start of a war with the aboriginals? Is this going to be the main issue ion the next election? Is this a good idea or a bad idea? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
The_Squid Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Terrible idea... will not be put through BC... there is enough opposition that there is no way this will be rammed through. I suspect that this will very much be an election issue and not a positive one for the Conservatives. Quote
Argus Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Excellent news! Glad that's all setled! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Excellent news! Glad that's all setled! shocker I tells ya... shocker! Hey didn't Harper approve this 3 years ago? (see Argus, I can do satire too). Ya, like it's "all settled"! Quote
Moonbox Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 People in BC need to get something significant out of this project, otherwise it's going to bury the Conservatives there. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Wilber Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 This was a forgone conclusion, now the real fight starts. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
On Guard for Thee Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 We'll probably have moved on to an alternative energy source before a shovel ever gets put in the ground. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Terrible idea... will not be put through BC... there is enough opposition that there is no way this will be rammed through. I suspect that this will very much be an election issue and not a positive one for the Conservatives. For starters the 209 conditions will never be met prior to the next election, and Trudeau stated emphatically today that he would kill it if/when elected. Quote
jacee Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Excellent news! Glad that's all setled!Only in your dreams! Quote
Topaz Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 After Elizabeth May showed in a jar, what is going to be in that pipeline, I can understand now why so many people are against it. The only people for it are the companies, the shareholders and the government, which are probably all of the SAME. Quote
jacee Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) I think the government's position is fair, with all conditions The federal government has agreed to let Enbridge build its Northern Gateway pipeline, subject to 209 conditions recommended by the National Energy Board and further talks with aboriginal communities. ... "In addition, consultations with aboriginal communities are required under many of the 209 conditions that have been established and as part of the process for regulatory authorizations and permits. The proponent [Enbridge] clearly has more work to do in order to fulfil the public commitment it has made to engage with aboriginal groups and local communities along the route." And Enbridge's response is fair too Al Monaco, president and CEO of Enbridge, said in a teleconference with reporters that the economic benefits of the pipeline are straightforward, but the company has some work to do in convincing the public. "If we can't prove our safety and environmental protection, the economic benefits won't matter," Monaco said. "In other words, the economic benefits alone are not enough to sustain public support." And I think this is true too Tim Gray, a spokesman for Environmental Defence, said in a news release."Despite cabinets approval, the pipeline will not be built. These conditions cannot be met - an approval with conditions is as good as a no. And this ... Conservative MPs from British Columbia are "hiding under their desks right now" Edited June 18, 2014 by jacee Quote
hitops Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 People in BC need to get something significant out of this project, otherwise it's going to bury the Conservatives there. Why? The coastline doesn't belong to the people of BC, it belongs to the people of Canada. Every people in Canada should have equal benefit and say in what happens to it. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Why? The coastline doesn't belong to the people of BC, it belongs to the people of Canada. Every people in Canada should have equal benefit and say in what happens to it. Exactly. Which is why the pipeline won't likely happen. At least for years and then we may not need it. Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Why? The coastline doesn't belong to the people of BC, it belongs to the people of Canada. Every people in Canada should have equal benefit and say in what happens to it. If you live along the coastline of BC, it becomes your home. It is our home. Our economy relies on a clean environment free of toxic oil spills that could undermine the entire province of BC. Not everyone in Canada has equal say in what happens. The protests against this will be many many many times above the protests of the Clayoquot protests. We now have soccer moms, dads, officer workers, the average british columbian, most first nations people. This battle has just started. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
WestCoastRunner Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 For starters the 209 conditions will never be met prior to the next election, and Trudeau stated emphatically today that he would kill it if/when elected. Not only Trudeau, but Mulcair as well. However, there is speculation that Harper won't get hurt much by this. He has a strong presence in the fraser valley and other parts of BC. He may lose a few seats but not enough to make a difference and possibly the votes could be split between Liberals and NDP for those against the pipeline. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
jacee Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Why? The coastline doesn't belong to the people of BC, it belongs to the people of Canada. Every people in Canada should have equal benefit and say in what happens to it.OoOooo ... I think them's fightin words! Chill mon. BC's got it covered. And Enbridge knows it's not a done deal by any means, even with time and finesse. And you're not helping their cause. But that's ok. Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 We'll probably have moved on to an alternative energy source before a shovel ever gets put in the ground. Instead of investing billions in building and transporting toxic bitumen, let's invest that money in renewable energy sources. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
On Guard for Thee Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) Not only Trudeau, but Mulcair as well. However, there is speculation that Harper won't get hurt much by this. He has a strong presence in the fraser valley and other parts of BC. He may lose a few seats but not enough to make a difference and possibly the votes could be split between Liberals and NDP for those against the pipeline. I take your point Not only Trudeau, but Mulcair as well. However, there is speculation that Harper won't get hurt much by this. He has a strong presence in the fraser valley and other parts of BC. He may lose a few seats but not enough to make a difference and possibly the votes could be split between Liberals and NDP for those against the pipeline. I take your point on this not hurting Harper because of course everybody knows that his announcement today is really already 3 years old so we all knew where Harper stood. I suspect that those who are in a position to launch a legal challenge already have their "ducks in a row" and the endless thrashing will commence. And boatloads of money will get wasted away on lawyers fees, which as you say could better be spent on less ugly/dangerous forms of energy. Edited June 18, 2014 by On Guard for Thee Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I take your point I take your point on this hurting Harper because of course everybody knows that his announcement today is really already 3 years old so we all knew where Harper stood. I suspect that those who are in a position to launch a legal challenge already have their "ducks in a row" and the endless thrashing will commence. And boatloads of money will get wasted away on lawyers fees, which as you say could better be spent on less ugly/dangerous forms of energy. You bet they have their ducks in a row. It will be an interesting ride for BC'ers in the next few years. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Derek 2.0 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Not only Trudeau, but Mulcair as well. However, there is speculation that Harper won't get hurt much by this. He has a strong presence in the fraser valley and other parts of BC. He may lose a few seats but not enough to make a difference and possibly the votes could be split between Liberals and NDP for those against the pipeline. I believe the majority of British Columbians will either support or accept the pipeline if/when the conditions of the Provincial Government are to be met, namely a piece of the action and environmental safeguards…..One must not forget, though not solely the reason, the Provincial NDP campaigned on “No Pipelines” and lost support amongst the BCFED and trade unions……Resource based industries and their coexistent unions have great influence on BC politics. Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I believe the majority of British Columbians will either support or accept the pipeline if/when the conditions of the Provincial Government are to be met, namely a piece of the action and environmental safeguards…..One must not forget, though not solely the reason, the Provincial NDP campaigned on “No Pipelines” and lost support amongst the BCFED and trade unions……Resource based industries and their coexistent unions have great influence on BC politics. I don't think they will support or accept it, however I think that the project will go ahead regardless of what British Columbians think and regardless of what contracts/proposals the Premier does or doesn't approve. In the end, the federal government will ram those pipelines through British Columbia and those oil laden tankers will pass through pacific waters on their way to Asia. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
On Guard for Thee Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I don't think they will support or accept it, however I think that the project will go ahead regardless of what British Columbians think and regardless of what contracts/proposals the Premier does or doesn't approve. In the end, the federal government will ram those pipelines through British Columbia and those oil laden tankers will pass through pacific waters on their way to Asia. Could be, but I suspect the native communities will be able to mount serious challenges. Harper can overide the wishes of the province(s) but land claims/titles may prove more difficult. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I don't think they will support or accept it, however I think that the project will go ahead regardless of what British Columbians think and regardless of what contracts/proposals the Premier does or doesn't approve. In the end, the federal government will ram those pipelines through British Columbia and those oil laden tankers will pass through pacific waters on their way to Asia. I don’t think you give credit to the ability of the Province to redress both conveyance and equivalency agreements with the Federal Government…….the Province isn’t of the same legal stature or standing as a bunch of hipsters or First Nations lobby groups…… None the less, I agree, the oil will go through regardless, it just a question of how…..pipeline or rail? Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) I don’t think you give credit to the ability of the Province to redress both conveyance and equivalency agreements with the Federal Government…….the Province isn’t of the same legal stature or standing as a bunch of hipsters or First Nations lobby groups…… None the less, I agree, the oil will go through regardless, it just a question of how…..pipeline or rail? This is where the entire country and federal government have underestimated British Columbians. It's not just hipsters and First Nations lobby groups. It is every town that this pipeline will go through, every community along the coast where those tankers will pass by. It will be a big fight and remains to be seen who will win, however I am not optomistic that the federal government will listen to the people of BC. Edited June 18, 2014 by WestCoastRunner Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
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