Big Guy Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Posted June 18, 2014 How about building a railway track along the proposed pipeline route and have tanker trains going every 10 minutes? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Rue Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Just to clarify the constitutional legal issues: 1-the federal government does not have exclusive jurisdiction over the pipelines just because we are dealing with natural resources; 2-to start with any matter that concerns environmental safety within the borders of British Columbia is under provincial jurisdiction-environmental matters might become co-jurisdictional with the federal level of government if the environmental risk arises in more than one province but the federal power does not over-ride the provincial one it must work along side it-the province has the constitutional right to challenge the pipeline by passing certain environmental laws or regulations; 3-same comment as in 2 but in regards to health matters; 4-the aboriginal communities in British Columbia have their own set of collective rights recognized and protected by the Charter that must be treated with equal consideration as to any rights Enbridge wishes to obtain to build its pipeline.; natural resource needs do not trump aboriginal land rights. So it is wrong to state the feds have exclusive federal power to impose the pipeline, they do not. They in fact need to get the consent of the BC provincial government and the aboriginal communities, both unlikely at this point and this is why harper had to set out his absurd 209 conditions. Those 209 conditions are a parachute clause giving Harper's government a way to distance itself from the public relations issue associated with the pipeline. His 21 conservative mp's can now argue, hey wait a second, we are neutral this has to be decided between Enbridge and the aboriginal people. It gives Harper a way to transfer back to pr backlash on Enbridge. If Enbridge can win over the provincial government and aboriginal people and et their consent, he and his MP's will come running to take full credit. If it blows up, he can safely retreat and say, hey don't blame me, it was a decision out of our hands. He will pull the same stunt he did when he abandon Senate reform. In the next federal election he may believe that any votes going against the pipeline will be split between Liberal, Green and NDP not Tories anyways. He may believe the Tories will win seats as the NDP, Green and LIberals fight for the same votes. Quote
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 For starters the 209 conditions will never be met prior to the next election, and Trudeau stated emphatically today that he would kill it if/when elected. Without having read the report... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 After Elizabeth May showed in a jar, what is going to be in that pipeline, I can understand now why so many people are against it. The only people for it are the companies, the shareholders and the government, which are probably all of the SAME. You think we should close down all pipelines and start heating our homes with peat moss? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 If you live along the coastline of BC, it becomes your home. It is our home. Our economy relies on a clean environment free of toxic oil spills that could undermine the entire province of BC. Not everyone in Canada has equal say in what happens. The problem is this COUNTRY's economy relies on energy production. And you're assuming that this can't be done safely. I disagree. It certainly can be, provided Enbridge doesn't screw up in its construction work and is closely monitored. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Instead of investing billions in building and transporting toxic bitumen, let's invest that money in renewable energy sources. That's childishly naive. Who is this "we" you speak of? The cost of this pipeline isn't being born by the taxpayer, but by private corporations which are doing it to earn a clear profit. If they could earn a clear profit by researching renewable energy sources you can be sure they'd do it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 You are perhaps forgetting that BC is taking the most risk with these pipelines traversing very rough and isolated lands and tankers plying their way through BC water's to transport toxic bitumen to Asia. In exchange for gobs of money which helps fuel our economy, provides jobs, and pays for all the social programs I'm sure you love. I honestly don't see the issue if they adopt the same rules as Vancouver does, which requires double hulled tankers only moving in daytime, escorted by attached tugboats. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 That's funny. People in Ontario don't have to deal with the environmental risks of a pipeline going through BC, nor with the oil tankers shipping it away to China. You think there's no pipelines passing through Ontario?! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I see this as an issue between Alberta and BC. If the fed wants this, either province should be able to veto the pipeline if they choose. It's worth tens of billions to Canada's economy, so it most definitely is of interest to the federal government. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
overthere Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 If you live along the coastline of BC, it becomes your home. It is our home. Our economy relies on a clean environment free of toxic oil spills that could undermine the entire province of BC. Not everyone in Canada has equal say in what happens. The protests against this will be many many many times above the protests of the Clayoquot protests. We now have soccer moms, dads, officer workers, the average british columbian, most first nations people. This battle has just started. Does that mean that BC will stop mining billions of dollars of coal and cancel all the natural gas projects soon. to demonstrate their actual commitment to a clean environment? Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 This issue, as with Keystone, has nothing to do with climate change. Nothing. Keystone has everything to do with climate change. The heavy financing of opposition to the Keystone project comes from organizations which oppose it not due to any specific dangers of a pipeline but in an attempt to stop oil sands development. The same people have financed opposition to any and all pipelines going west, north or east from Alberta in hopes that by denying a means to move the oil they can limit the oil sands deveopment. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Who's paying them more? Tides or the Government. if you have information that Tides is not following current regulations determining it's charitable status and the allowed monies it can receive... I encourage you to forward that information to CRA. . Quote
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) there seem to be some native groups already lined up... as signatories to the development... I don't believe they had to "costume up"! Of course, there are also native groups against the development Any of them who haven't had THEIR palms greased by environmental groups? This will come down to Enbridge having to outbid environental foundations, that's all. Edited June 18, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 They in fact need to get the consent of the BC provincial government and the aboriginal communities, both unlikely at this point and this is why harper had to set out his absurd 209 conditions. Those 209 conditions are a parachute clause giving Harper's government a way to distance itself from the public relations issue associated with the pipeline. His 21 conservative mp's can now argue, hey wait a second, we are neutral this has to be decided between Enbridge and the aboriginal people. that... and the other hyped talking point these last days is "science based"; that the report is all about "the science" supporting the project! Oh my. Quote
waldo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Any of them who haven't had THEIR palms greased by environmental groups? This will come down to Enbridge having to outbid environental foundations, that's all. don't know, do your own homework! Right, cause Enbridge is destitute and has no monies to support it's attempt to win "the hearts and minds"... poor lil' oil company! Quote
waldo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 You think we should close down all pipelines and start heating our homes with peat moss? as I'm aware, there is no demonstrated means to recover/reclaim dilbit sunk to the ocean floor... do you have an update on that? Quote
waldo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 The problem is this COUNTRY's economy relies on energy production. And you're assuming that this can't be done safely. I disagree. It certainly can be, provided Enbridge doesn't screw up in its construction work and is closely monitored. how'd that work out for Enbridge in it's Kalamazoo leak... how's that continuing to work out in Kalamazoo? Quote
waldo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 If they could earn a clear profit by researching renewable energy sources you can be sure they'd do it. they are... several are pursuing alternative energy deployments. Well... I assume profit... certainly not "greenwashing", hey? Quote
PIK Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 You think we should close down all pipelines and start heating our homes with peat moss?I wish mulcair and trudeau would both stand up and tell the whole country we are shutting down oil production and we are raising taxes by 150% to pay for our social programs. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I wish mulcair and trudeau would both stand up and tell the whole country we are shutting down oil production and we are raising taxes by 150% to pay for our social programs. More like 400%. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 they are... several are pursuing alternative energy deployments. Well... I assume profit... certainly not "greenwashing", hey? Many organizations are researching and pursuing alternative energy sources. However, those sources are not yet in a position to replace oil and gas, and won't be for quite some time. In any event, this is all private money building the pipelines, so suggesting 'we' spend that money on something else makes no sense. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
PIK Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) who is "we" partner? Me and others like me that understand how important this is to the economy and the country .You gotta love ezra when he wades into the protests and shows how foolish these protesters have become. Edited June 18, 2014 by PIK Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
waldo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I honestly don't see the issue if they adopt the same rules as Vancouver does, which requires double hulled tankers only moving in daytime, escorted by attached tugboats. sure, sure... cause Second Narrows/Burrard Inlet is exactly like Kitimat's Douglas Channel - yeesh! Quote
waldo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I wish mulcair and trudeau would both stand up and tell the whole country we are shutting down oil production and we are raising taxes by 150% to pay for our social programs. alarmist! Neither Opposition leader has (or would) align with your ridiculous statement. Quote
Argus Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 how'd that work out for Enbridge in it's Kalamazoo leak... how's that continuing to work out in Kalamazoo? Enbridge was careless, and it's cost them over a billion in cleanup costs. I rather doubt they want to incure a lot of billion and multi billion dollar cleanup costs, so presume they'll do better in future. I want them closely monitored, however. As far as I know Kalamazoo is fine now. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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