Is 16 years Old Enough To Vote?

[cybercoma]

It's not trolling if I actually do believe this would produce a better, more sophisticated, more responsible and knowledgeable electorate, and I do.

I agree. They should do what you say. I'll see you at the guillotine when it happens too.

[On Guard for Thee]

I agree. They should do what you say. I'll see you at the guillotine when it happens too.

And hey, we could have riots in the streets. After all, why should Iraq have all the fun.

[-1=e^ipi]

How did you qualify to vote?

How is that relevant?

Are you suggesting all children should be allowed to vote - ie, no "ageist line"?

If the child has a high school diploma, sure.

Huh? That makes no sense to me.

Maybe this will help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incentive

[On Guard for Thee]

How is that relevant?

If the child has a high school diploma, sure.

Maybe this will help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incentive

Oh yeah, that really helped!!!! Good for a laugh though.

[jacee]

But voting isnt about giving a say to people that contribute to the government. Its about giving people representation into authorities they are subject to. In the absense of that the only thing the authority has left is force.

Yes, this is very true. The primary benefit of democracy is that it discourages riots and rebellions.

Absolutely true.

.

[Remiel]

Is someone suggesting in this thread that theoretical physics would be a more useful degree to have come voting time than gender studies?

[Queenmandy85]

Is someone suggesting in this thread that theoretical physics would be a more useful degree to have come voting time than gender studies?

Yes

[eyeball]

The point went right over your head. There are countries who still do not have the right to vote - and there are those that are fighting for that right. Those who have struggled and fought for the freedom we have today would without doubt consider us privileged - and its a shame that those who do not vote fail to recognize that privilege. One of the most apt definitions of "privilege" is:

Any of the rights common to all citizens under a modern constitutional government:

"We enjoy the privileges of a free people."

What about those democracies who support dictators abroad while waxing eloquently about democracy and freedom at home?

Those who died to protect our privilege would likely puke if they could see us today.

[Remiel]

Then that someone is well and truly mind boggling. I am not a big fan of gender studies programs. Most of the good things about it can already be covered by general philosophy. But to suggest that theoretical physics, which has zero relevance to politics other than perhaps some incidental research funding, would make one a better judge of politicians than gender studies is to basically appeal to science mysticism. Gender politics are a thing. Quantum politics are not.

[Rue]

Well to Ghost I would say while I have blasted you on many a debate I consider you well informed and I respect your opinions.

I do know many 16 year olds who are highly intelligent and insightful and I respect them very much and learn from them.

That said I would be concerned that at 16 however, most people that age (yes I am generalizing so that is in itself unfair) in my subjective opinion may not be emotionally ready to vote.

Yes its probably unfair because there are some pretty amazing 16 and 17 year olds out there but then at 16 many others are just not ready, they are undergoing emotional changes as their frontal lobe changes in size and the hormones increase and decrease in surges.

It does distort perception.

The other problem and Bush again is right, if we lowered the voting age to 16, then we would have to change the laws as to contracts that say a minor from 16 up to the age of 18 can not be bound by the contracts they enter. That would be challenged as would not letting them join the armed services, drink, smoke and then they should be treated as adults when they commit crimes.

You open up a legal landmine.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Rue

[Big Guy]

If high school students (16 and over) were allowed to vote and the process became part of the curriculum then teachers would be denied the ability to push an agenda the same way as other controversial topics like contraception, sexual orientation etc are handled. The curriculum would be very well defined.

The student would have the ability to be presented with the different platforms and discuss them in an unbiased, controlled environment. The most beneficial aspect would be that people who vote young do tend to continue to vote in future elections. These students may even influence their parents and relatives to vote.

Most local high schools already hold mock elections. In our area, the results of the mock elections were the same as the eventual vote within the community both on the provincial and federal level.

[dre]

Yes its probably unfair because there are some pretty amazing 16 and 17 year olds out there but then at 16 many others are just not ready, they are undergoing emotional changes as their frontal lobe changes in size and the hormones increase and decrease in surges.

It does distort perception.

So what? Everyone has a somewhat distorted perception. You average adult makes up their mind either based on ideology alone, or watching 30 second sound bytes and political attack ads. We let diagnosed schitzophrenics vote, we let 70 year old alzeimers patients vote, we let people diagnosed bi-polar vote, we let political ideologs vote, fox news viewers, people that cant read and write...

But all of a sudden we draw the line at 16 yearolds because we are worried about the quality of those votes. Well guess what! The Canadian electorate is of such low quality and adds so little real value that it simply couldnt matter. Our role is merely to participate so that the political system stays stable. We dont inform ourselves, we dont have any say into real decisions. Our role is simply to facilitate the orderly change of government.

[Big Guy]

As to the older folks, it is not unheard of for a political party campaign or a "third party" or a supporter of a particular politician arranges for a bus to go to an old age or nursing home and provide a means for the residents to go for a ride - on which they are given the opportunity to vote. While the old folks are not told who to vote for, they are told which candidate or party provided the bus.

It looks like most of us posters are looking for an objective criteria which would guarantee that a vote is "legitimate".

[hitops]

You guys need to go back and do even a cursory review of the history and conditions modern democracy emerged from.

I would suggest you take your own advice, since the conditions of early democracy are exactly what is prompting the expressed views about limits on the vote.

Elections are always about who's making what laws. That's what legislators do.

Were you born yesterday? 90% of the voting public has no clue who made what laws.

Make me an offer: Maybe I'll give up my vote if I no longer have to follow the government-imposed laws! You can't expect me to follow laws when I have no say.

In this scenario you do have a say though - become a productive person and pay taxes and have your say. If you choose not to, that's your choice.

Edited June 19, 2014 by hitops

[dre]

I would suggest you take your own advice, since the conditions of early democracy are exactly what is prompting the expressed views about limits on the vote.

No whats prompting the view that young people should not be able to vote, is a complete failure to understand how democracy works and what its for.

[guyser]

May as well let 'em know and save your breath.

de·moc·ra·cy

[dih-mok-ruh-see] Show IPA

noun, plural de·moc·ra·cies.

1.

government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

2.

a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.

3.

a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.

4.

political or social equality; democratic spirit.

5.

the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

[Moonbox]

Most young people in Canada are well educated and understanding of our culture. Is it time to review the age at which a Canadian has the right to vote?

No. Most 16 year-olds are not well educated. They're on their way, but they don't have an understanding of personal finances yet. I went into a high school in Oshawa as a guest speaker to talk about the banking and credit systems, and even 17/18 year-olds didn't have a clue.

This is just another inane and pointless thread topic. Well done again Big Guy.

[dre]

No. Most 16 year-olds are not well educated.

The argument has been answered like 1/2 a dozen times. Most adults are not well educated and well informed either. And well educated voters are not necessary for democracy to work anyways. Voters dont craft policies, and they dont review legislation, and they almost NEVER have much knowledge about the issues facing an government. They watch 30 second sound bites, and political attack ads, or they vote ideology or for the candidate that they think they could "have a beer with".

Its not important that voters are subject matter experts. Even if every single Canadian voter was severly retarded and knew absolutely nothing democracy would function just fine.

Hell you could let babies vote... put a colorful block for each party and whichever one they pick up first gets their vote... and it would make not one iota of difference to how democracy functions or the way our country is run.

Edited June 19, 2014 by dre

[GostHacked]

Dre

I think part of the other problem is the media an how they portray a story, partisan or not. Our media does not let us be educated. The school system does not allow us to be educated. We are born into a system that we did not create, and have really no influence on how it will proceed.

The media tells a lot of half truths. Which can obfuscate an issue, confusing the voter.

And when it comes down to it, I simply cannot vote. None of these asshats have a majority of what I am looking for. I will always have to settle with second best. If people really paid attention, they would understand that the politicians lie through their teeth to get a vote. Campaign promises, administration failures. Blame game , rah rah rah, elect someone else.. rinse repeat.

I do consider myself informed, and yet completely disenfranchised from voting. The game is rigged.

[hitops]

No whats prompting the view that young people should not be able to vote, is a complete failure to understand how democracy works and what its for.

That's a statement with no meaning, and also not what you said. You initially said it was unfamiliarity with the origins of modern democracy. In fact, those origins are characterized by many limits on voting, far more than today.

If you want to change your argument now to saying it's a failure to understand how democracy works, at least properly reflect that view by stating it's a failure in understanding how you believe democracy should work.

Edited June 19, 2014 by hitops

[cybercoma]

No. Most 16 year-olds are not well educated. They're on their way, but they don't have an understanding of personal finances yet. I went into a high school in Oshawa as a guest speaker to talk about the banking and credit systems, and even 17/18 year-olds didn't have a clue.

This is just another inane and pointless thread topic. Well done again Big Guy.

Have you looked at the political platforms during elections? I don't think the parties have any understanding of finances yet either.

[Queenmandy85]

Democracy is the philosophy the says people should get the government they want...good and hard. H.L. Menken

[Bob Macadoo]

This is just another inane and pointless thread topic contribution. Well done again Big Guy condescending douche.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is just another inane and pointless thread topic contribution. Well done again Big Guy condescending douche.

Why was this member's post altered as a quote ? Personal attacks are not permitted.

[Argus]

Rue made a really good point and you haven't addressed it Argus:

Make me an offer: Maybe I'll give up my vote if I no longer have to follow the government-imposed laws! You can't expect me to follow laws when I have no say.

.

But young people already can't vote and still have to obey the laws. For that matter, so do non-citizens. Or try driving from Montreal to Toronto and telling the police that since you don't live there you can park wherever you want and see what that gets you.