This week in Islam

[Marocc]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

WTF are you talking about? 

Your boss.

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

What part of "Don't hit other people." is difficult for you to comprehend?

Now that you mention it, I need you to define hit for me in this sentence. It could mean anything to you, I know. So I cannot discuss this without you separately explaining the specific definition of the word in this sentence.

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

even children are taught that.

Mainly just children.

[Goddess]

 

 

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Nice try. It's still an account of your pedophile prophet hitting a woman...a child at that...after he f**ked her.

I fear this religion will never be able to reform.  There's too much heinous stuff in it and it's easy to justify it all with the holy book.

People can be taught and persuaded to see that beating or hitting their wife is wrong, but when they do it with the sanction of a religion - nothing will convince them otherwise.  The legal and judicial systems which make it illegal will always come second to whatever they believe "God" tells them and will be (and have proven to be) no deterrent.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

 

 

I fear this religion will never be able to reform.  There's too much heinous stuff in it and it's easy to justify it all with the holy book.

People can be taught and persuaded to see that beating or hitting their wife is wrong, but when they do it with the sanction of a religion - nothing will convince them otherwise.  The legal and judicial systems which make it illegal will always come second to whatever they believe "God" tells them and will be (and have proven to be) no deterrent.

 

If Big Mo did it....it's alright. Simple as that. 

It's WWJD applied to Islam.

[DogOnPorch]

Here's is the concept...Al-Wala' wal-Bara'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Wala'_wal-Bara'

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Now that you mention it, I need you to define hit for me in this sentence. It could mean anything to you, I know. So I cannot discuss this without you separately explaining the specific definition of the word in this sentence.

Really?  You can't discuss this without knowing what it means to "hit" someone? You really don't know what it means to "hit" someone?

Don't hit or beat on your wife!  Not with a pencil, not with a "bunch of grass", not with a hockey stick, not with your hands, not with any object, not with anything.

If you want to debate about what is acceptable to hit your wife with - just GTFO.

People like you disgust me.

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Really?  You can't discuss this without knowing what it means to "hit" someone? You really don't know what it means to "hit" someone?

Don't hit or beat on your wife!  Not with a pencil, not with a "bunch of grass", not with a hockey stick, not with your hands, not with any object, not with anything.

If you want to debate about what is acceptable to hit your wife with - just GTFO.

People like you disgust me.

Behave!

[Goddess]

 

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

Behave!

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Not hitting and beating on your wife is Humanity 101 and this religion is teaching horrible things.  No wonder we see what we see from this religion.

[Marocc]

Now that you're all thinking this is outrageous, it the perfect time to talk about yet another point: why it is effective.

If someone was threatening you, and he came over and tapped you with the pencil, would you be frightened? No. Would you be hurt? No.

would the wife in a hypothetical scenario be hurt physically? No.

Then why do it? No robber would do it. It means nothing in that situation.

But as it is in the Qur'an and it is in the hadith. It is among the guidelines for a certain situation in a marriage. Any Muslim woman whose husband would do that, can be assumed to know well what it means.

How would it make the hypothetical wife feel? Most likely it would make her feel very bad. Not because of any physical aspect, but because of what the action means.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Goddess said:

 

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Not hitting and beating on your wife is Humanity 101 and this religion is teaching horrible things.  No wonder we see what we see from this religion.

 

An argument you might hear is: "Well, that's just the Taliban. Not all of Islam."

My counter is the usual reply to such a fallacy.

"You're right. Let's judge Nazism by the actions of Oskar Schindler rather than the SS."

I believe you'd agree I've been very consistent on this point re: Islam.

[dialamah]

18 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Nice try. It's still an account of your pedophile prophet hitting a woman...a child at that...after he f**ked her.

There is no proof M was a pedophile.  Aisha's age is disputed by scholars, and in conflicting Hadiths; she herself gave different ages, probably because they didn't really track birthdates the way we do now.  Even if she was married at 9, that is within the custom of the time and does not mean the marriage was consummated.  According to custom, marriages were not consummated until the female menstruated - which is unusual at 9, but not uncommon.

You cling to the pedo-rape narrative to justify your irrational bigotry and to foment hatred and fear of Muslims and Islam.  

[DogOnPorch]

 

Just now, dialamah said:

There is no proof M was a pedophile.  Aisha's age is disputed by scholars, and in conflicting Hadiths; she herself gave different ages, probably because they didn't really track birthdates the way we do now.  Even if she was married at 9, that is within the custom of the time and does not mean the marriage was consummated.  According to custom, marriages were not consummated until the female menstruated - which is unusual at 9, but not uncommon.

You cling to the pedo-rape narrative to justify your irrational bigotry and to foment hatred and fear of Muslims and Islam.  

 

You're defense of child rape is noted.

[Goddess]

9 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Now that you're all thinking this is outrageous, it the perfect time to talk about yet another point: why it is effective.

No, it's not the perfect time to talk about why hitting your wife is effective.  This debate about whether it's good to beat women or not, has been settled.  Your side lost.

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Goddess

[DogOnPorch]

11 minutes ago, Goddess said:

No, it's not the perfect time to talk about why hitting your wife is effective.  This debate about whether it's good to beat women or not, has been settled.  Your side lost.

 

 

The cartoonists find it a rich ground for satire...

And we both know how much Islam and cartoonists get along.

Edited December 19, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[Goddess]

10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

An argument you might hear is: "Well, that's just the Taliban. Not all of Islam."

Except it's not just the Taliban.  It's a wide swath of Muslims because they are all being taught to beat and hit their wives.  How and when, even.

Western countries really need to start  monitoring what is going on in churches and mosques.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Goddess

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Goddess said:

Except it's not just the Taliban.  It's a wide swath of Muslims because they are being taught to beat and hit their wives.  How and when, even.

 

I know that. 

But it's the ol' Exception Fallacy...counting the hits and forgetting the many many many misses.

[DogOnPorch]

A hypothetical example would be pointing out a bake sale held by a local mosque to help the poor as the REAL Islam while ignoring the two dozen or so Islamic terrorist attacks that occurred on the same weekend.

[Goddess]

13 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There is no proof M was a pedophile.  Aisha's age is disputed by scholars, and in conflicting Hadiths; she herself gave different ages, probably because they didn't really track birthdates the way we do now.  Even if she was married at 9, that is within the custom of the time and does not mean the marriage was consummated.  According to custom, marriages were not consummated until the female menstruated - which is unusual at 9, but not uncommon.

You cling to the pedo-rape narrative to justify your irrational bigotry and to foment hatred and fear of Muslims and Islam.  

He chose her - as a child - because she was beautiful and he was sexually attracted to her and wanted her as a wife.

Whether that was the "norm" then or not is irrelevant.  What is relevant is that it's still being applied and condoned by the religion today, when marrying and bedding children has been proven to be harmful.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Goddess

[Marocc]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Whether that was the "norm" then or not is irrelevant. 

That was my first reaction when I got to know about all the incest in the Bible. Apparently it's okay though, because it wasn't considered wrong at the time.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

He chose her - as a child - because she was beautiful and he was sexually attracted to her and wanted her as a wife.

Whether that was the "norm" then or not is irrelevant.  What is relevant is that it's still being applied and condoned by the religion today, when marrying and bedding children has been proven to be harmful.

 

The majority of accounts have her age pegged at 6 when married and merely used to rub against...9 when consummated...errr....properly. 

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aishas_Age_of_Consummation

Sure....some histories say she was older....but they aren't what are called 'reliable Hadiths'. Some of these 'accounts' took place 100s of years post event. But the one I posted is from one of the most reliable and is attributed to Aisha herself.

[Goddess]

9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

The majority of accounts have her age pegged at 6 when married and merely used to rub against...9 when consummated...errr....properly. 

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aishas_Age_of_Consummation

Sure....some histories say she was older....but they aren't what are called 'reliable Hadiths'. Some of these 'accounts' took place 100s of years post event. But the one I posted is from one of the most reliable and is attributed to Aisha herself.

That was the accepted historical age of Aisha by Muslims for millenia - until Islam started it's world-wide rampage of "peace" and apologists had to come up with another explanation.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Goddess

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

That was the accepted historical age of Aisha by Muslims for millenia - until Islam started it's world-wide rampage and apologists had to come up with another explanation.

 

Many things Islamic are post Mohammad....mainly thanks to his equally war-like and child bride totting Companions. A swell bunch they were. Vikings on horses.

[dialamah]

13 minutes ago, Goddess said:

He chose her - as a child - because she was beautiful and he was sexually attracted to her and wanted her as a wife.

Someone else suggested the match; he didn't "choose" her.  Some historians think Mohammed agreed to strengthen ties with Aisha's father, which hasn't been uncommon throughout history.

15 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Whether that was the "norm" then or not is irrelevant. 

No, its not when people like DoP call M a pedophile and claim that all Muslims are thus pedophiles. 

16 minutes ago, Goddess said:

What is relevant is that it's still being applied and condoned by the religion today, when marrying and bedding children has been proven to be harmful.

Yup, I agree.  On the other hand, most Muslim majority nations forbid marriage prior to age 18; the practice of child marriage is prevalent among poorer, less educated populations, including non-Muslims. 

But you will define Islam according to what the minority do - so long as it allows you to paint all Muslims as evil.  And you'll ignore all other reasons why child marriage occurs in or outside of Islam.

People like you disgust me with your bigotry, blatant lies and unending propaganda designed to marginalise innocent people. 

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 

No, its not when people like DoP call M a pedophile and claim that all Muslims are thus pedophiles. 

 

 

I made NO such claim. Oskar Schindler was a good Nazi. Great even.

[Goddess]

8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

most Muslim majority nations forbid marriage prior to age 18;

They do, do they?

 

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

They do, do they?

 

 

https://muflihun.com/bukhari/62/64