This week in Islam

[Goddess]

I was reading an article last night about violence against women (the Polytechnique massacre anniversary is coming up).  I won't post the article unless someone asks because it's not really pertinent to this topic, but it made some interesting points about the misogyny that is a threat to half the world's population and says that we must start calling it what it is - terrorism.  

The article made points that apply equally well to how we view Islamic terrorism and ideology.

The public at the time (1989) was encouraged to think about the killings not with anger and protest, but with "reflection and silence" - much the same as we are told to think about Islamic massacres.  Definitely dont' talk about it.

We are starting now to recognize these massacres of women for what they are - extremist acts, hate crimes against an identifiable group - women.  Up til recently the connection between extremism and misogyny has been mostly overlooked in studies and in the law.  The author suggests we start looking at misogyny for what it is - an ideology that is deadly to half the population.  Of course, we recognize Islamic extremism as a deadly ideology but we refuse to look at its roots. 

Like crimes against women, we have to stop looking at Islamic extremism as crimes of an individual and see it for what it is - the consequences of an interconnected and poisonous ideology.

These violent acts of religious extremism are intended to be sequential - one killer drawing inspiration from another, drawing inspiration from an ideology that is already full of misogyny and hatred of others.  Misogyny and hatred are the core ideologies that bind almost all forms of Islam together.  More than that, they are world views, not individual attitudes.  That is very different. 

 

[Marocc]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

If you'd like us to use "correct names", perhaps you'd be kind enough to provide them.   What, for example, would we call Salafis who believe that violence is the way to promote and expand Islam?

 

There is no name that I am aware of that refers to such people. The group you refer to is vague. One would have to define violence and promoting Islam. Then see one individual at a time what they do. If a court was to judge 6000 people whom they call Salafis, they wouldn't say, "because these are Salafis they all get 10 years in prison". If the action is of a specific kind they might be called terrorists, revolutionaries, rebels, militants, vandals, activists, criminals, oppressors etc.

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Salafi is considered to be a more pure form of Islam because it seeks to emulate the first generations of Islam, correct?

More or less. I wouldn't say 'a more pure form' — simply Islam.

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

It was common in Mohammed's time to own slaves, and he did so himself.  If a Salafist owns a slave, is he/she doing 'something wrong', or 'following the best of generations in Islam"?

He's doing wrong since Islam encourages the freeing of slaves and there are according to Islamic law no slaves owned anymore. They could only come as war captives.

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

If any activity which we, today, would call wrong but which was common in Mohammed's time, would be a legitimate behavior of Salafis wouldn't it?

No. Why would it?

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

No, it doesn't, to me.  More often I've heard of Wahabism associated with Saudi Arabia.  

You don't think they are the same thing?

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Saudi Arabia is considered among the most extreme when it comes to Islam; the women are extremely limited in terms of their freedom,

I don't think it is the most extreme. Among them maybe on some ways. Most extreme in Islam? No. Among the most extreme in cruelty and political corruption maybe.

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Saudi Arabia didn't get around to aboloshing slavery until 1962, but even today, minorities who "work" for the ruling class are little more than slaves anyway. 

What of it? There's plenty of people considered to be slaves in the world.

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

So, what do we call these Muslims, if not Salafi?

Depends who are talking about. Why do you want to name them? Because of crimes or war or opinions.... I don't know who the media means when they say Salafis unless I understand it from the rest of the story. I don't know who you mean.

[scribblet]

Even the son of Hamas says there is an Islamic problem

https://www.dailywire.com/news/son-hamas-calls-out-obama-political-correctness-robert-kraychik

We cannot fool ourselves. There is an Islamic problem. Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, ISIS, Boko Haram, all of them are killing by the name of Allah. They’re not killing by the name of Jesus. They’re not killing by the name of Jehovah. They’re not killing by the name of Mahavira, or the Buddha, or Lao Tzu,” said Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of a religious leader of Hamas.

[Marocc]

4 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Even the son of Hamas says there is an Islamic problem

https://www.dailywire.com/news/son-hamas-calls-out-obama-political-correctness-robert-kraychik

We cannot fool ourselves. There is an Islamic problem. Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, ISIS, Boko Haram, all of them are killing by the name of Allah. They’re not killing by the name of Jesus. They’re not killing by the name of Jehovah. They’re not killing by the name of Mahavira, or the Buddha, or Lao Tzu,” said Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of a religious leader of Hamas.

Was that the Israeli spy?

[scribblet]

I know nothing about an Israeli spy, it was the son of a Hamas leader known as the Green Prince speaking in a the Jerusalem Conference in 2016.

[Marocc]

12 minutes ago, scribblet said:

I know nothing about an Israeli spy, it was the son of a Hamas leader known as the Green Prince speaking in a the Jerusalem Conference in 2016.

Yeah. Probably the Israeli spy.

[Marocc]

You don't care to look him up before you showcase the story?

[scribblet]

Sound  like a good guy, 

The information Yousef supplied prevented dozens of suicide attacks and assassinations of Israelis, exposed numerous Hamas cells,^[1] and assisted Israel in hunting down many militants, including the incarceration of his own father, a Hamas leader, Sheikh Hassan Yousef.^[4] In March 2010, he published his autobiography titled Son of Hamas.^[5]

[scribblet]

One of those killed on the bridge UK, by the known radical, was a supporter in favour of re- introducing radicals back into the community so a special pass was granted for the terrorist to attend the event. Then he killed a sponsor.
https://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/focus-on-early-release-of-terror-convict-in-london-bridge-stabbings/

[Rue]

2 hours ago, Marocc said:

You don't care to look him up before you showcase the story?

Israeli spy. Provide the documentation. How about you. Using your logic we now can conclude you are a Hamas spy.  That was lame. Calling someone an Israeli spy gee imagine that. What is he a banker, a Hollywood film producer, a brothel owner, a dentist, a stand up comedian as well? 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Rue

[Rue]

22 hours ago, Marocc said:

There is no name that I am aware of that refers to such people.

Yes this coming from someone who throws out accusations of people being Israeli spies. One standard for you, one standard for we infidel hmm. Get off the toilet seat it aint no throne. You engage in the very thing you criticize.

[Rue]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:39 PM, DogOnPorch said:

 

Individual Muslims don't matter to Islam's doctrine anymore than Oskar Schindler did re: Nazism. Oskar was a pretty good Nazi...as they go. We don't judge Nazism by Oskar Schindler...but rather Treblinka and Babi Yar.

No. That is a defective analogy. I was not taught to believe all Germans were Nazis only that Nazis were and why others became Nazi supporters but I do not and have never been  taught all Germans were Nazis. This would be an insult to the German righteous gentiles who died with my relatives and hid Jews. It would be an insult to all gentiles in Germany who fought the Nazis. Its an insult to Jehova's Witnesses and 7th Day Adventists and Catholics betrayed by Pope Pius to name a few Germans in Germany. Its an insult to Socialists, communists, lanour union leaders who the Nazis sent to camps and killed. I don't like generalizations that encourage hatred. I like people to take the time to explain what it is they challenge and not take intellectual short cuts. Maroc is selective as to what he sees. So are some when discussing Muslims. Muslim extremists should be distinguished from Muslim people in discussions. If we do not make that effort we are no better than Muslim terrorists and Maroc and that is what they want.

[DogOnPorch]

24 minutes ago, Rue said:

No. That is a defective analogy. I was not taught to believe all Germans were Nazis only that Nazis were and why others became Nazi supporters but I do not and have never been  taught all Germans were Nazis. This would be an insult to the German righteous gentiles who died with my relatives and hid Jews. It would be an insult to all gentiles in Germany who fought the Nazis. Its an insult to Jehova's Witnesses and 7th Day Adventists and Catholics betrayed by Pope Pius to name a few Germans in Germany. Its an insult to Socialists, communists, lanour union leaders who the Nazis sent to camps and killed. I don't like generalizations that encourage hatred. I like people to take the time to explain what it is they challenge and not take intellectual short cuts. Maroc is selective as to what he sees. So are some when discussing Muslims. Muslim extremists should be distinguished from Muslim people in discussions. If we do not make that effort we are no better than Muslim terrorists and Maroc and that is what they want.

 

You're free to judge Nazism by Oskar Schindler and Islam by its reformers. They both have the same destination pour vous.

PS: We bombed the living shit out of Germany...night area bombing. We aimed for ANYBODY...even your special Germans.

Edited December 5, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[Marocc]

37 minutes ago, Rue said:

Israeli spy. Provide the documentation. How about you. Using your logic we now can conclude you are a Hamas spy.  That was lame. Calling someone an Israeli spy gee imagine that. What is he a banker, a Hollywood film producer, a brothel owner, a dentist, a stand up comedian as well? 

If he's the person I think he is he says so himself. Did you look him up?

[Argus]

So this week in Islam we have a Saudi air force officer shooting up a base in Florida. I didn't mention it at first, but it's now looking more and more like he was an Islamist. And more of his comrades might be the same. Now there's a hunt on for more of them who have gone missing.

The suspect in the deadly shooting at Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida, a Saudi military service member in the US for training, held a dinner party before the attack to watch mass shooting videos, a US official told the Associated Press.

During the attack, another Saudi student, one of three who attended the party, reportedly filmed the shooting at the US naval base while two others watched from a car.

Ten Saudi students have reportedly been detained for questioning. Some of the Saudi nationals at the base are, however, currently unaccounted for.

https://www.businessinsider.com/suspect-naval-base-attack-held-party-watch-mass-shooting-videos-2019-12

[DogOnPorch]

Just spreading peace around a bit.

[Rue]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 12:55 PM, Marocc said:

If he's the person I think he is he says so himself. Did you look him up?

Oh let's play who is that...who do you "think" he is....Jerry Seinfeld,  Billy Crystal, me....Harvey Weinstein,...who?

[Rue]

17 hours ago, Argus said:

So this week in Islam we have a Saudi air force officer shooting up a base in Florida. I didn't mention it at first, but it's now looking more and more like he was an Islamist. And more of his comrades might be the same. Now there's a hunt on for more of them who have gone missing.

The suspect in the deadly shooting at Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida, a Saudi military service member in the US for training, held a dinner party before the attack to watch mass shooting videos, a US official told the Associated Press.

During the attack, another Saudi student, one of three who attended the party, reportedly filmed the shooting at the US naval base while two others watched from a car.

Ten Saudi students have reportedly been detained for questioning. Some of the Saudi nationals at the base are, however, currently unaccounted for.

https://www.businessinsider.com/suspect-naval-base-attack-held-party-watch-mass-shooting-videos-2019-12

The media sure did not report the above initially now did they. They were very careful not to mention the ethnicity of the attacker. If there is an Islamic extremist terrorist connection surely it can be reported without it necessarily insulting innocent Muslims. I am the first to say be consistent and fair in depictions but to censor vital info is also wrong. Saudi Arabia is a very close military ally to the US so you can be sure this will be covered up as was the Ben Laden family connection to the US and all of the family whisked out of the US during 9-11.

Oil makes unholy alliances for many nations.

[scribblet]

Kudos to Denmark police for cashing 20 suspected terrorists and averting a massacre,  The police in Denmark have arrested 20 Muslim terrorists who were involved in the preparation of a major terror attack, in a series of counter-terrorism raids across the country.

According to the police, investigators carried out “comprehensive and coordinated” action at several addresses across the country to foil a major Islamist terror attack.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/denmark-police-say-terror-attack-plans-foiled-20-arrested/

and another one shot in Paris...     https://btnews.online/france-muslim-terrorist-shot-and-eliminated-after-attempting-to-stab-police-officers-in-paris/?fbclid=IwAR3MdQi0Htra-tbIMEe2eRL8IJccnzcA5YjRdmWLbPUW1yAb2lrFQBIfmNQ

This one is scary..    ISIS urges followers to ignite fires in U.S. and Europe forests 

https://nypost.com/2019/11/06/isis-urges-followers-to-ignite-fires-in-forests-across-us-and-europe/?fbclid=IwAR3Sj6xGIm8O1gQMRpNBxFsjGdKJnNWMPkDxUIg0CxR-GggBkULSNt18yQQ

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by scribblet

[Marocc]

Is this the type of future you haters want for Canada?

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Marocc

[Marocc]

12 hours ago, scribblet said:

This one is scary..    ISIS urges followers to ignite fires in U.S. and Europe forests

That ship has sailed. They're lucky to light a cigarette.

[scribblet]

Personally I don't hate anyone, but the deniers like to frame any disagreement as hate. 

[Marocc]

25 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Personally I don't hate anyone, but the deniers like to frame any disagreement as hate. 

I never said you did. But your apparent feeling toward certain ideas and traditions for instance is on the level of something I would call hatred.

[Argus]

25 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Personally I don't hate anyone, but the deniers like to frame any disagreement as hate. 

Yes. There is much to dislike, disapprove, and distrust about Islam and its followers. The religion is violently chauvinistic and preaches distrust and hatred towards all unbelievers. It is also highly political in its ambitions to conquer the world and unite every state under Islam. Why would anyone who isn't a Muslim not disapprove of that or distrust its adherents? It's enforced social values are barbaric and backward and harken back centuries to the savagery of the middle east a thousand years ago. Why would we want to welcome it into Canada or expand the number of its followers here?

That doesn't mean that we 'hate' Muslims. It just means that we have rendered an informed judgement as to the wisdom of having them come here.

[scribblet]

So misogynistic  and barbaric that Paris has to have separate train coaches for women, at least it provides more employment for security guards.