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This week in Islam


kimmy

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56 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You have me confused with a figment of your overheated imaginings. 

I am actually the person who, when someone says "Why aren't Muslims protesting/doing something about terrorism", says "They are" and then posts examples, of which there are thousands to choose, if you cared to look.   

My knowing that billions of Muslims condemn terrorism; that many of them combat it and giving you examples of that isn't what makes you Islamophobic.  It's that you reject any "good" done by Muslims as "not enough" and continue to demonize them any chance you get.

 

You know billions of Muslims? Neat trick.

Aside, I could insert "Nazi" into every usage of the word "Muslim" and it shows how silly your argument is.

Islam isn't a race. Islam isn't a skin colour. It's a religion...a particularly dangerous and virulent one...that demonizes the Unbeliever as an enemy to be fought and defeated. That's what you support. That's what you want more of.

 

Meanwhile...across the Pond.

'Jihadi Jack' parents guilty of funding terrorism

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-48676894

 

 

Edited by DogOnPorch
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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

It's that you reject any "good" done by Muslims as "not enough"

I've "rejected" any good done by Muslims, have I?  

No.  I've posted positive articles as well.  I just don't make excuses for the bad behaviour of the religion's adherents.  You just don't like that I agree with ex-Muslims and Muslim reformers that the religion in in dire need of  reforming.  

I know you will sometimes reluctantly agree that the religion needs reforming but then you turn around and argue about the specifics of what needs to be reformed.

FGM?  Not a Muslim thing - no reform needed.  How dare you say so, you Islamophobe!

Misogyny?  Not a Muslim thing because the Bountiful BC people, so no need to reform.  How dare you say so, you Islamophobe!

Anti-semitism?  Doesn't exist in Islam and the KKK  - no reform needed.  How dare you say so, you Islamophobe!

Forcing women into burkas and hijabs?  It's totally their choice and NUNS! - no reform needed.  How dare you say so, you Islamophobe!

Terrorism?  The West deserves it because White supremacy., so no reform needed .  How dare you say so, you Islamophobe!

Honor Killings?  Not a Muslim thing - no reform needed.  How dare you say so, you Islamophobe!

Acid attacks?  Not a Muslim thing - no reform needed.  How dare you say so, you Islamophobe!

Attacking Christians and destroying churches?  That's just bad press - no reform needed.  How dare you say so, you Islamophobe!

etc.

etc.

etc.

So no, I'm just not blind to the bad, nor do I make excuses for it.

For someone who personally knows a billion Muslims and has been authorized to speak for them all, you sure seem uninformed as to what the religion is doing.

Edited by Goddess
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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

So no, I'm just not blind to the bad, nor do I make excuses for it.

You are blind to the good and seek to deny it, while postulating that every action you dislike "proves" Muslims are evil.   

A Muslim refugee family does well in Canada?  "They are too rare to consider representative of any Muslim refugee".

A Muslim refugee family has an unemployed father looking for work, a daughter working while she attends college and plans for a career in healthcare   "He is lazy and taking advantage of Canada's social safety net, teaching his sons to oppress women and take advantage of the system and the daughter will never amount to anything because she's just going to be forced to marry."

Every terror event, we see Muslims help victims of terror and their leaders condemn terrorism.  "Muslims don't do enough to condemn terrorism."

A Muslim refugee is arrested for the murder of a young girl; Muslims show up at the courthouse condemning him and offering comfort to the girl's community.  "Muslims think it's acceptable to rape and kill women".

Muslims are physically attacked and killed by White supremacist types.  "Look at what the Muslims are doing to Jews in France."

The Bradford Literary Festival is a Muslim led event, with 500 events over  10 days.  The Muslim organizers accept money from a government sponsored anti-extremist group.  Six Muslins object to this and leave.  494 events will still move ahead, other Muslims' included.  But "Muslims don't want to do anything about extremism and don't want anyone else to do anything either."  

This pattern of denying anything positive, and insisting only negative stories can be true about a group ( even if the stories are exaggerated or untrue) is known as demonization.  You should stop it.

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21 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You are blind to the good and seek to deny it, while postulating that every action you dislike "proves" Muslims are evil.   

No. The religion is badly in need of reform.  You are the one who denies it.

When I post that something - for example -  like FGM needs to be handled in Islam, you immediately post that NO! IT DOESNT.  So I post things showing that it  IS a problem in Islam and you deny all of it or discount the source.

I wouldn't have to post nearly any of the stuff I do, except that you are in complete denial that there are any problems with the religion.

Many Muslims and ex-Muslims are calling for reform.  And they are doing it despite death threats and screeches of "Islamophobe!!!!!!" from people like you.

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Just now, dialamah said:

My knowing that billions of Muslims ..

You do not know that BILLIONS of Muslims are anything.  The polls show what the majority of them believe and it's not what YOU say they believe.  You do not speak for Muslims anymore than I do.

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5 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You do not know that BILLIONS of Muslims are anything.  The polls show what the majority of them believe and it's not what YOU say they believe.  You do not speak for Muslims anymore than I do.

How would you know what I think Muslims believe?  You've never bothered to ask me, or listen.  Instead, you keep telling me what I think.

Edited by dialamah
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If Muslim reformists like Hirsi Ali says these things are a problem in Islam and you insist they are not, who do I believe?  Hirsi Ali and ones like her who have actually lived it or you - who visited Egypt (as a TOURIST) a couple of times and are desperately trying to defend your sister's religion?

Do I believe it when the media is reporting daily attacks on Christians or do I believe you, who insist they are nothing to be concerned about and that the media is lying just to make Muslims look bad?  You insisted that Christians are loved by Egyptians and treated well.  Reports say the opposite.  Who do I believe?

Edited by Goddess
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5 minutes ago, Goddess said:

If Muslim reformists like Hirsi Ali says these things are a problem in Islam and you insist they are not, who do I believe?  Hirsi Ali and ones like her who have actually lived it or you - who visited Egypt (as a TOURIST) a couple of times and are desperately trying to defend your sister's religion?

Do I believe it when the media is reporting daily attacks on Christians or do I believe you, who insist they are nothing to be concerned about?  You insisted that Christians are loved by Egyptians and treated well.  Reports say the opposite.  Who do I believe?

Ayaan Hirsi Ali became an apostate long ago and she knows nothing about Islam. Every other 'fact' of hers is an outright lie that only non-Muslims can be ignorant enough to believe.

FGM is prohibited in Islam.

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3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

If Muslim reformists like Hirsi Ali says these things are a problem in Islam and you insist they are not, who do I believe? 

So if someone said, in Hirsi Ali's hearing, that Muslims and Jews were being attacked by White Supremacists in Western countries, would she immediately say "Muslims are driving Jews out of France"?

If Ms Ali, upon hearing that a refugee boy was arrested and charged with rape and murder, immediately opine that this is just what we can expect from Muslim men?  

My sister, in our private conversations, talks about issues in Egypt and in Islam, and with Muslims.  But she would never come here and talk about them, because people like you and DoP and Argus will use it as fodder to demonize Muslims. 

So does Ms Hirsi ever mention how Muslims might be disinclined to talk about the issues they face because of Islamophobic attitudes and statements about how the people they know and love are just are brutal murderers and rapists and will never change?

And is the deal that I must 100% agree with someone you agree with before I can say anything worthwhile hearing?

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8 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Ayaan Hirsi Ali became an apostate long ago and she knows nothing about Islam. Every other 'fact' of hers is an outright lie

 

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

But she would never come here and talk about them, because people like you and DoP and Argus will use it as fodder to demonize Muslims. 

Yes, we get it.  You do not like Islam being talked about in a bad way.  You will defend it to your last breath.  You will demonize those who do want to discuss it.

If your sister chooses to do nothing and say nothing about the problems, that is her choice.

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15 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Do I believe it when the media is reporting daily attacks on Christians or do I believe you, who insist they are nothing to be concerned about?

I have often mentioned my concern over Islamic terrorism.  I have also mentioned my concern over right-wing terrorism.  I have offered, more than once, to discuss how radicalization might be addressed, regardless of its source or object.  Instead of engaging in good faith, you accuse me of saying that Islamic terrorism is "nothing to be concerned about".  

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5 hours ago, Goddess said:

Yes.  Even though nobody in real life thinks I'm alt-right and I test mostly Left on quizzes.  My disagreement of Islam being the Religion of Peace makes me an extremist alt-right who should be watched by the police.

There must be more too it than that - I mean I certainly don't agree with the religion of peace moniker either and I'm considered an commie Islamic terrorist.  Explain that.

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15 minutes ago, Goddess said:

^^^ I rest my case. ^^^

I don't much care if Muslims consider her an apostate; I too am considered an apostate by J W, as are you.  Do you suppose the JWs have a different reaction if we criticize them? It's irrelevant.  I don't know why you think his words prove anything for or against Ms Hirsi.

Quote

If your sister chooses to do nothing and say nothing about the problems, that is her choice.

Again, your reading comprehension.  My sister wouldn't come here to discuss it, because of people like you and Argus and DoP.

Edited by dialamah
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5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There must be more too it than that - I mean I certainly don't agree with the religion of peace moniker either and I'm considered an commie Islamic terrorist.  Explain that.

Easy enough ... any suggestion that you might be able to dislike the religion but still view its adherents as human and varied in their beliefs clearly means you are on the side of the violent Islamists and want to destroy Western society.  

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52 minutes ago, dialamah said:

@Goddess and @DogOnPorch

You both need to learn to read.  I said My knowing that billions of Muslims ..

I did not say I know billions of Muslims.

Perhaps it's a lack of reading comprehension that results in the BS you two post.

 

They're aren't billions of Muslims. There are 1.85 billion. 

But...since Islam & birth control seem at odds...there shall soon enough be billions.

Either way, it's a fallacy to claim you know the nature/motives/etc of 1.8 billion people.

What we do know is what the Quran and Hadiths say. And I find Islam's goals to be both supremacist & fascist...if not demonstrably murderous.

But...you're willing to overlook all that Mein Kampf stuff...

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20 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yes it is

 

Incorrect: From the Hadiths...

A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (ﷺ) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. Abu Dawud said: It has been transmitted by 'Ubaid Allah b. 'Amr from 'Abd al-Malik to the same effect through a different chain. Abu Dawud said: It is not a strong tradition. It has been transmitted in mursal form (missing the link of the Companions) Abu Dawud said: Muhammad b. Hasan is obscure, and this tradition is weak.

https://quranx.com/Hadith/AbuDawud/USC-MSA/Book-41/Hadith-5251/

Translation to modern: Go ahead...cut...just don't muck her up so much I get grossed-out. Oh yeah...she might prefer it to not be like Friday the 13th, as well...

Room for change? Perhaps...this Hadith is not one of the strongest. So x% of Muslims will find it doubtful...however...x% of Muslims will also find it truthful & accurate.

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6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

But...since Islam & birth control seem at odds...there shall soon enough be billions.

Generally and with regional differences, Islam permits birth control and abortion for various reasons - including extreme poverty in some places- up to about three months.  After that, an abortion is allowed if the health of the mother is at risk.

9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Either way, it's a fallacy to claim you know the nature/motives/etc of 1.8 billion people.

So don't do it.  

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Just now, dialamah said:

 

So don't do it.  

 

I told you what we DO know...but you ignored that bit.

 

Quote

Generally and with regional differences, Islam permits birth control and abortion for various reasons - including extreme poverty in some places- up to about three months.  After that, an abortion is allowed if the health of the mother is at risk.

 

Tell that to Muslim women made to pump out child after child by husbands who deny them birth control.

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3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Easy enough ... any suggestion that you might be able to dislike the religion but still view its adherents as human and varied in their beliefs clearly means you are on the side of the violent Islamists and want to destroy Western society.  

Oh. I guess I better strap on a vest and practice hollering Akbar alluah, if that's the case.

Sucks to be me.

 

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