This week in Islam

[Marocc]

22 hours ago, Goddess said:

What's with the machete attacks?  It's getting ridiculous.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5609593/One-machete-attack-90-minutes-UK-streets.html
 

 

Machete attack breaks out in movie theater showing Frozen 2.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/families-left-shocked-after-frozen-2-screening-ends-in-machete-brawl/ar-BBXquwA?ocid=spartandhp

 

Oh I see, you read it too. It's strange you bring it up even though it said nothing about organized terrorism. Unless you count the mention of the two individuals of whom I don't know if they were part of any organized activity.

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Marocc said:

But you just said you're not okay with them.?

I'm not "ok" with lots of things that people choose to do, but if it is their choice, I have to just shrug.  Vaping, for instance - smells bad, is stupid and has now killed people.  But it's not illegal so ... shrug.

5 minutes ago, Marocc said:

members, in which case it is most likely not an issue of right and wrong at all, but a qestion of perception of honor and respect.

True, and its heartbreaking to read first person accounts about young girls who are expected to dress a certain way for "honor and respect", who hate and who feel dehumanized or even sexualized because of it - I recall a girl wondering why she had to cover in front of her father; did it mean he thought of her in a sexual way?   Stories like that make me very sad.

I think Muslims growing up in Western countries will be able to change this idea of "honor" to one of choice, and an honest expression of faith or modesty rather than a forced one.  I think that the internet is allowing upcoming generations in more repressive countries also understand that there are other choices and that they do have a right to them.  I think it will be a natural progression of Islam that women will choose for themselves, whether or not to cover.

Although really, as I write this I'm thinking - is that seriously the most pressing issue for women living in oppressive circumstances, whether imposed by government or family?  I think not.  

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Oh I see, you read it too. It's strange you bring it up even though it said nothing about organized terrorism. Unless you count the mention of the two individuals of whom I don't know if they were part of any organized activity.

Yes, apologists for Islamic extremism often use the tack that it has to be "organized" terrorism to count.  Because of tougher security measures it's getting more difficult for radicals to commit large acts of terrorism like what was done on 9/11 or the London bombings.  For many years now, the focus has been on inciting individuals within Islam to attack using common and easily available methods - driving vehicles into crowds, machete attacks, acid attacks.  It's all still terrorism.

[Marocc]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

In addition to the article that stated there's a machete attack every 90 minutes now in the UK?

It said in 2017 during one two month period there were 928 crimes involving machetes, which has been counted to having been an average of one every 90 minutes.

I do suspect if we count how many were before, say, attacks with knives involved, the amount wouldn't be shockingly less... Just a guess.

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Machete attacks by Islamics are increasing.  Here's why

Did you decide this was the reason? I can't find the word 'machete' from it.

[Marocc]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yes, apologists for Islamic extremism often use the tack that it has to be "organized" terrorism to count.  Because of tougher security measures it's getting more difficult for radicals to commit large acts of terrorism like what was done on 9/11 or the London bombings.  For many years now, the focus has been on inciting individuals within Islam to attack using common and easily available methods - driving vehicles into crowds, machete attacks, acid attacks.  It's all still terrorism.

I used the word 'organized terrorism' because the word 'terrorism' by itself is vague. I think we all know where the focus is here.

[dialamah]

6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yes, apologists for Islamic extremism often use the tack that it has to be "organized" terrorism to count.  Because of tougher security measures it's getting more difficult for radicals to commit large acts of terrorism like what was done on 9/11 or the London bombings.  For many years now, the focus has been on inciting individuals within Islam to attack using common and easily available methods - driving vehicles into crowds, machete attacks, acid attacks.  It's all still terrorism.

Neither of the news stories you posted had anything to do with Islam or Muslims.  They are both about gangs and criminals.  You are twisting the truth to suit your agenda.  

[Goddess]

18 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Neither of the news stories you posted had anything to do with Islam or Muslims.  They are both about gangs and criminals.  You are twisting the truth to suit your agenda.  

You dont' believe in Islamic terrorism, so this is no surprise.

[Iceni warrior]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

I don't think which film people were seeing was the important part of that news item.

Of course you don't. You are desperate to link machete crimes with Islam and ignore any links to gang crime.

[Goddess]

10 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

Of course you don't. You are desperate to link machete crimes with Islam and ignore any links to gang crime.

OK.  Let's put that one aside.  You don't like that one.  Thats fine.  What about all the other hacking deaths, the attacks on police and military, the attacks on women?  How come machete attacks are  suddenly all the rage in London and the rest of the world?  Nothing to do with Islam, is that it?  Nothing to do with ISIS sending out a call to Muslims to attack with knives and machetes?  Is that your stance?

All these attacks are "fake news", are they?

Edited November 28, 2019 by Goddess

[Iceni warrior]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

OK.  Let's put that one aside.  You don't like that one.  Thats fine.  What about all the other hacking deaths, the attacks on police and military, the attacks on women?  How come machete attacks are  suddenly all the rage in London and the rest of the world?  Nothing to do with Islam, is that it?  Nothing to do with ISIS sending out a call to Muslims to attack with knives and machetes?  Is that your stance?

My stance is that you are dishonestly linking a machete incident (a child was found in posession but hadn't attacked anyone) at a cinema with Islam. You fail to answer why this article was posted in this thread when it belongs in a thread about gang crime.

You are implying that the rise of such incidents is due to Islam.

You are basing this on a single attack on a British soldier.

Clearly, that one murder was influenced by ISIS. The vast majority of incidents involving machetes are not and you refuse to acknowledge this.

 

[Marocc]

6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

How come machete attacks are  suddenly all the rage in London and the rest of the world?  Nothing to do with Islam, is that it?  Nothing to do with ISIS sending out a call to Muslims to attack with knives and machetes?  Is that your stance?

There was no mention of machetes in the article from Wikipedia. They are really just long knives. I suspects it's been known to people for some time now that knives can be used as a weapon. And then, there just aren't that many guns in UK.

[Iceni warrior]

14 minutes ago, Goddess said:

OK.  Let's put that one aside.  You don't like that one.  Thats fine.  What about all the other hacking deaths, the attacks on police and military, the attacks on women?  How come machete attacks are  suddenly all the rage in London and the rest of the world?  Nothing to do with Islam, is that it?  Nothing to do with ISIS sending out a call to Muslims to attack with knives and machetes?  Is that your stance?

All these attacks are "fake news", are they?

Why would you imply that I think they are fake news?

Strawman aside, how many of the 16 attacks per day (in that 2 month period) were related to crime and how many were because of Islam?

I'll tell you, they are overwhelmingly related to criminal activity.

Now why are you concentrating on the tiny minority of these attack which are inspired by radical Islam? To the point where you think an incident in a cinema directly related to gang warfare belongs in this thread.

 

 

[Goddess]

16 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

You are basing this on a single attack on a British soldier.

Based on ONE attack on a soldier, yes that would be silly.  That's why I posted many links of many attacks on many soldiers.  And you still deny.

 

Quote

 

First they shouted in the streets of London to behead those who insult Islam.

Then they blew up the London underground on 7/7.

Then they attacked and killed the Queen’s soldier Fusilier Lee Rigby

Then they attacked the Queen’s parliament and killed Cst.Keith Palmer.

Then they attacked the Queen’s home planning to attack and kill the Queen.

Islam is at war with the United Kingdom.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Goddess

[Iceni warrior]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Based on ONE attack on a soldier, yes that would be silly.  That's why I posted many links of many attacks on many soldiers.  And you still deny.

 

 

So, a handful of cases over a dozen years or more compared to many thousands of machete attacks related to crime over the same period.

Thank you, you make my point for me.

 

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

 

Thank you, you make my point for me.

 

And you make mine for me - apologists will deny ANYTHING and EVERYTHING going on in Islam.

Tell me, the 73 year old woman who was volunteering to deliver meals and got hacked by a Muslim with a machete in Vermont......justify that one now.  I'll wait.

 

[Iceni warrior]

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

And you make mine for me - apologists will deny ANYTHING and EVERYTHING going on in Islam.

Tell me, the 73 year old woman who was volunteering to deliver meals and got hacked by a Muslim with a machete in Vermont......justify that one now.  I'll wait.

 

Oh get fucked. I'm not going to justify any machete attack on anyone for any reason.

Cherry picking machete attacks motivated by radical Islam does not justify linking a gang related incident in a cinema to Islam.

It's clear what your motivation for doing that was.

[Goddess]

10 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

 

It's clear what your motivation for doing that was.

Yes.  To show that machete attacks by Muslims and Muslim gangs are increasing.

 

10 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

I'm not going to justify any machete attack on anyone for any reason.

It's easy if you try - let's go with "Muslim terrorists are just mentally ill people" - that's always a good one.  Or maybe he was a disgruntled banana plantation worker?  Or she did something to provoke him.  Whatever you choose, it's important that the religion not be blamed.  It's soooo peeeeaacefuuuulllllll, spreading love & light throughout the world.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Goddess

[scribblet]

15 minutes ago, Goddess said:

And you make mine for me - apologists will deny ANYTHING and EVERYTHING going on in Islam.

Tell me, the 73 year old woman who was volunteering to deliver meals and got hacked by a Muslim with a machete in Vermont......justify that one now.  I'll wait.

 

Denial is a river in Egypt.   I don't know why the left continues to deny Islamic terrorism and Islamic goals.  They don't seem to be able to face the truth so deny even as they vehemently oppose  the Christian Right while crying  “Islamophobia!” if anyone dares to apply the same standards they apply to Christian fundamentalist. 

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Denial is a river in Egypt.   I don't know why the left continues to deny Islamic terrorism and Islamic goals.  They don't seem to be able to face the truth so deny even as they vehemently oppose  the Christian Right while crying  “Islamophobia!” if anyone dares to apply the same standards they apply to Christian fundamentalist. 

They act like hacking people to death in Western countries has been around for centuries and we're just noticing it now. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Goddess

[Iceni warrior]

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

 

It's easy if you try - let's go with "Muslim terrorists are just mentally ill people" - that's always a good one.  Or maybe he was a disgruntled banana plantation worker?  Or she did something to provoke him.  Whatever you choose, it's important that the religion not be blamed.  It's soooo peeeeaacefuuuulllllll.

So having failed you now try to put words in my mouth.

I'm not denying that a tiny proportion of machete attacks are related to radical Islam.

I'm pointing out that the vast majority are not.

My main point is to point out how dishonest it was to link an incident related to gang crime to Islam by putting it in this thread.

 

[Goddess]

I don't think it's a coincidence that ISIS sends out instructions to individual Muslims to attack people in malls and suddenly there's a whole bunch of machete attacks in malls.  I don't think it's a coincidence that ISIS sends out instructions for individual Muslims to drive trucks into crowds and suddenly that's a thing, too.  I don't think it's a coincidence that the government, police and military have been targeted.  They protect the "infidels."

[scribblet]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

They act like hacking people to death in Western countries has been around for centuries and we're just noticing it now. 

Yup...   it's amazing to what lengths they will go to deny what is happening around the world.  

Meanwhile in the U.K.  the fight for the Caliphate goes on

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-caught-camera-launching-knife-20965291

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by scribblet

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

 My main point is to point out how dishonest it was to link an incident related to gang crime to Islam by putting it in this thread.

Keep whittling away at this... the method of bringing up individual crimes as evidence of some great malady is an old one but people seem to think it still works.

 

[Michael Hardner]

The first two years of this topic only went 37 pages.  Since 2016 we have gone 160.  Gee, what changed ?

[Marocc]

On 11/27/2019 at 8:30 PM, Goddess said:

 What would make a Western woman join a religion that demonizes women so blatantly and unapologetically?

Knowing that it doesn't. Most converts to Islam in the West are women.