Michael Hardner Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 I guess with all this concern for the Canadian worker, we should all be pushing for increased union membership then ? Am I right ? Since the businesses involved are doing well enough, are characterized as greedy, not caring about workers etc.... is it time for them to come back ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Bob Macadoo Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 I guess with all this concern for the Canadian worker, we should all be pushing for increased union membership then ? Am I right ? Since the businesses involved are doing well enough, are characterized as greedy, not caring about workers etc.... is it time for them to come back ? No....haven't you heard here......unions have outlived their usefulness.......government intervention is preferable to private market forces. Quote
eyeball Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I'd rather break the union between power and wealth and maybe there is a way of skinning that cat, and Bob's suggestion of government intervention is at least worth trying before breaking out the Molotovs. In BC right now municipal governments and so-called business leaders are going on these little walk abouts with provincial economic development and related ministers in our small towns on the coast. The purpose of the exercise is to reach out to business's to see what governments can do to make things better, they're here to help see. The reportage of this in our local paper contains quotes from business and government spokespersons in the sort of gushing touchy-feely tones about community and family values that make you want to puke or kick the phony crap out of something. In any case the only reference I heard towards workers was how the high cost of living hereabouts made it hard for business' to attract and hold them here. Obviously there are only two solutions, import cheap foreign labour that can be warehoused or put more money into Canadian's hands so they can afford to live like, you know, Canadians. I'm going to suggest our village councils encourage local employers to get with the living wage program I mentioned above and for local voters to elect councillors and mayors who get it. Municipalities should be seeking certification as living wage communities otherwise how does anyone expect any business to set up shop in a place where people can't afford their product or service? Edited May 2, 2014 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
kimmy Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 I don't think workers who came here should be evicted. This isn't their fault. Some of them have been saddled with debt to the recruitment agencies that lured them here. They should be allowed to finish the terms they signed up for. Attrition will take care of the problem, provided that they stop allowing new TFWs in. I guess with all this concern for the Canadian worker, we should all be pushing for increased union membership then ? Am I right ? Since the businesses involved are doing well enough, are characterized as greedy, not caring about workers etc.... is it time for them to come back ? After reading some of the articles about how the TFWs are treated, maybe unionizing TFWs is a good idea. From what I've read, the common practice for housing TFWs is that the employer rents accommodations for the TFWs and pays their utilities, and deducts the cost from the workers' pay and they don't get itemized breakdown of costs. The potential for abuses is obvious. I read an article about agroup of TFWs in Edmonton who were being charged, collectively, $3000 for an apartment that rents for $2400. In Labrador, 26 TFWs were being housed in a rented house, crammed in so tightly that some of them were sleeping in closets or on the couch outside. Sounds kind of like the "company town" system from the old west. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Argus Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 I think it would be grossly unfair to simply boot all these people out after having given so much hope and opportunity. I mean, if Canada needs more workers Canada effectively also needs more Canadians. Just so long as they're not fishermen, eh? All of these people were told at the start their jobs were temporary and gave them no right to apply for permanent status. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 I agree with that. If we need workers so bad offer the tfw's full citizenship. The whole point is we DON'T need workers so bad, certainly not in most industries. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 Just so long as they're not fishermen, eh? Nope, just so long as they're Canadians. All of these people were told at the start their jobs were temporary and gave them no right to apply for permanent status. Yes but none of them were told they would be used as cannon fodder in the effort of the oligarchs Ottawa serves to help them herd Canadians in the chase to the bottom. You know, the same connivers you like to whine about who are afforded more influence over our politicians than you. Just who's side are you really on here and why? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Argus Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 Nope, just so long as they're Canadians. Yes but none of them were told they would be used as cannon fodder in the effort of the oligarchs Ottawa serves to help them herd Canadians in the chase to the bottom. You know, the same connivers you like to whine about who are afforded more influence over our politicians than you. Just who's side are you really on here and why? The point is these people aren't Canadians. And I'm not suggesting we break the contract with them and send them on their way. I'm saying there should be no more of them, and once the contracts are done the program ends. Business can damn well train its own people or not do business. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 Business can damn well train its own people or not do business. What on Earth could possibly compel them to do that when they've so obviously got the government running interference for them? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Argus Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 What on Earth could possibly compel them to do that when they've so obviously got the government running interference for them? Exactly the point. That's why this program should stop. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 Just so long as they're not fishermen, eh? All of these people were told at the start their jobs were temporary and gave them no right to apply for permanent status. You and I were told that. Even so, when you listen to some of these TFWs, it doesn't sound like they were told that at all. It sounds like they were promised an opportunity to get full citizenship. The question I have is who is giving them these promises? The government? The employers? The recruitment agencies? Friends and family? It needs to stop. Quote
eyeball Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 Exactly the point. That's why this program should stop. Yes but now you're talking about breaking the influence that bond power and wealth together. You'll need even more luck to accomplish that. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Big Guy Posted May 2, 2014 Author Report Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Here in Southern Ontario thousands of off shore workers from Jamaica and Mexico have again arrived for their seasonal employment. They will purchase hundreds of thousands of dollars in goods and appliances and take them home with them. They keep a considerable amount of money in the area. You may find the recruitment process interesting. Over the years, the bigger farms have developed a system where the foreman from a town or village will recruit within his village and the whole crew will come from the same place. This assists in supervision during and outside of working hours. They know that anybody who has to be sent home is jeopardizing jobs for other villagers. Many have been coming for years with some in their 20th season. Very few have tried to stay since their return tickets are closely supervised and they do not have the opportunity to "disappear" in Canada. There has been some local resentment with some local women getting pregnant with a child with the worker and then he applies for resident status. There are some obviously mixed race children in the area but many of the mixed race couples move to urban centres where more tolerance is shown to their arrangement. Farmers continue to declare that they have offered these jobs to locals or even those on workfare but either there is no interest or the work ethic is just not there. It appears to be a symbiotic relationship that has been going on for years with farmers, locals and workers accepting the relationship. Edited May 2, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 Back in college they used the term GIGO a lot, meaning garbage in, garbage out. The term works with both computers and statistics. The Conservative government has quietly adjusted its labour data to ignore job postings from Kijiji and similar websites, a change that essentially erases the dire warnings of labour shortages that Ottawa has used as justification for expanding the controversial temporary foreign worker program. With these sites removed from the source data, the government’s latest labour market report points to a job vacancy rate of 1.5 per cent, which is dramatically less than the 4 per cent vacancy rate Finance Canada warned of on budget day. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/jobs/ottawa-adjust-labour-data-raising-questions-about-national-skills-shortage/article18457198/#dashboard/follows/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 I'm not sure it was so silent. The NDP hammered them on using kijiji for their statistics. If they wouldn't have slashed Statistics Canada's budget by so much over the last 10 years, perhaps they would have an accurate depiction of the nation from which they could make effective public policy. One of the biggest challenges faced by StatsCan is the cuts to government departments. Only a portion of The money that goes to Statistics Canada comes from its direct budget, most of its money comes from the various federal departments paying them indirectly for their work. When the federal government cut the budgets to the departments, this was one of the first things that went. How do you make informed and effective policy decisions when you gut the government agency that is charged with gathering and analyzing data on Canadians? The answer is you don't. You make decisions based on ideology. Some of it works, some of it doesn't, but it's all largely inefficient. That's why this government time and again tries things, then goes back on them. Passes legislation then gets shot down by the Supreme Court. This isn't productive leadership at all. Quote
kimmy Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 More ridiculous stories of abuse of this program came out yesterday. The allegations from employees are no longer surprising. What was interesting to me was the email from the recruitment agency to the employer, warning that TFWs start getting "Canadianized" and becoming more demanding, and advising them to threaten to send them back home to keep them in line. It makes it clear what the recruiters are really selling. Jason Kenney can keep getting up in the House of Commons and saying the same thing over and over. "Isolated cases, blah blah blah, we take allegations seriously, blah blah, investigations, blah blah, potential criminal charges blah blah". But what I'm really curious about is what the McDonalds guy meant when he said that Jason Kenney "gets it". -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
cybercoma Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 If the Tories were serious about this, they would be going after the recruitment agencies. They're glorified 21st-century slave traders. Quote
Icebound Posted May 8, 2014 Report Posted May 8, 2014 .. Interesting to have produced a program where all the protection is afforded the employer, and absolutely none to the employee. Sharp cookies, those lawmakers. ... Quote
Argus Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 So while focussing on the unskilled labourers who work in fast food outlets, the Tories have not done a lot about the recruitment of 'skilled' workers, that I've seen. We have shortages in certain areas, but rather than train Canadians, we look to temporary foreign workers.Came across this today, based on reports from the Phillipines that Canada is actively recruiting adn even helping train welders in the Phillipines to come here and work on shipbuilding in BC as well as the pipeline construction. So we have the Canadian Welding Bureau helping to certify and train people in foreign countries so they can come here and work as temporary workers. I suppose it would be too much to ask of train Canadians for these high paying jobs...http://backofthebook.ca/2014/06/26/the-phillipines-is-a-very-favorable-place-to-hire-welders/10819/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
TimG Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 Came across this today, based on reports from the Phillipines that Canada is actively recruiting adn even helping train welders in the Phillipines to come here and work on shipbuilding in BC as well as the pipeline construction.OK - can you point to Canadians who want access training but can't get it? I realize it would be hard to find that data but without it we cannot really assess whether this is a real skill shortage that the CWB is trying to fill or an artificial one. Quote
Argus Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 OK - can you point to Canadians who want access training but can't get it? I realize it would be hard to find that data but without it we cannot really assess whether this is a real skill shortage that the CWB is trying to fill or an artificial one. As you say, how to get that data? We have a highly paid skill here where the welding board is going to the Philipines and other countries in order to train students and help set up the curriculum. Why wouldn't they and the government be doing that here? Instead of setting up an expensive program to find temporary foreign workers abroad. Do you really think we can't find people here willing to take training for jobs that pay $50hr? One of our problems in Canada is we have a pathetic mishmash of training programs for the trades, and no national standards because it's deemed to be a provincial responsibility. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted July 5, 2014 Report Posted July 5, 2014 Do you really think we can't find people here willing to take training for jobs that pay $50hr? Ya no kidding ... I can point to 6 young men right in my neighbourhood who would jump at it! One of our problems in Canada is we have a pathetic mishmash of training programs for the trades, and no national standards because it's deemed to be a provincial responsibility. Good point. But of course we don't have a 'temporary foreign workers' problem anymore ... Because now they're called something else. The Conservative minister said his reforms were designed to ensure that employers didnt hire foreigners at the expense of Canadians.But as a Vancouver federal court case illustrates, Ottawa is still freely allowing companies to bring in temporary foreign workers. Its just using a different scheme.This one is called the Intra-Company Transfer program (ICT). Foreign workers imported under it do not have to satisfy any of the conditions Kenney imposed Friday. /how_canada_lets_employers_avoid_temporary_foreign_worker_reforms_walkom Quote
monty16 Posted July 5, 2014 Report Posted July 5, 2014 There is absolutely no doubt that the Conservatives' plan is to bring in cheap labour and spread it throughout industry and commerce in order to destroy any bargaining power worker still have. The example of the US is just too attractive to them. With huge income inequality as in the US, comes big profit. It also brings with it an economy that is comparable to Mexico's. Have no doubt, Mexico's people aren't ever going to be able to pull themselves up. I would suggest that it's also too late for the workers of the US. Harper hasn't succeeded in taking Canada there yet but it's in the process. Quote
Shady Posted July 5, 2014 Report Posted July 5, 2014 There is absolutely no doubt that the Conservatives' plan is to bring in cheap labour and spread it throughout industry and commerce in order to destroy any bargaining power worker still have. The example of the US is just too attractive to them. With huge income inequality as in the US, comes big profit. It also brings with it an economy that is comparable to Mexico's. Have no doubt, Mexico's people aren't ever going to be able to pull themselves up. I would suggest that it's also too late for the workers of the US. Harper hasn't succeeded in taking Canada there yet but it's in the process. Actually, you're wrong about that. Most proponents of immigration and illegal immigration are not conservatives. In the United States, it's democrats that are opposed to limiting immigration and especially illegal immigration. Quote
monty16 Posted July 5, 2014 Report Posted July 5, 2014 Trades training in Canada has been lowered to fit the plan of the employers. That is, hire a kid as an apprentice and have him/her work cheap as an apprentice until such time as he's/she's due to be paid journeyman wages, then get rid of him/her. The secret of this kind of abusive plan working is that even in the more skilled trades such as electrical/instrumentation, there are lots of menial jobs which need to be done that can be done by apprentices with as little as 6 months training on the job. The employer need only keep perhaps 1 in 5 or 6 as journeymen and pay the rest the apprentice rates. Don't be fooled by the greedy dishonest swine who try to tell you differently. Quote
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