Michael Hardner Posted April 27, 2014 Report Posted April 27, 2014 But now these restauranteurs are telling us that the temporary foreign workers are a part of their business without which they can not survive. Clearly the program is being used in a way which it was not intended to be used. This wasn't intended to create a structural change in the way an entire industry operates. This seems reasonable - but are they saying they need the TFWs permanently ? Shouldn't we expect this situation to rectify itself ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted April 27, 2014 Report Posted April 27, 2014 And whose word are we going to take that business will have to close? The businesses themselves? Don't you think it's to their benefit to threaten closure and threaten getting rid of jobs to keep the benefits of cheap labour? There's no doubt that the system is open to abuse, but I don't think that's a reason to not have government try to ensure competitiveness and a healthy business environment. They need to adjust their wages and benefits so people are willing to work with them and stay with them. And if a business can't survive running itself appropriately, then it wasn't a very good business to begin with. What's the best way to keep this in check ? I would say that it's having an informed and interested public to give feedback. That's us, and that means a better level of dialogue - which is all I'm asking for here. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
gunrutz Posted April 28, 2014 Report Posted April 28, 2014 If businesses have to close because the cost of labour is prohibitive, then that is a barrier. Businesses can and will lobby for legislative changes to allow them to continue to operate, and governments will listen. There are other interests than just the employees' to be considered. Perhaps there are too many weak businesses that dont deserve to survive, and maybe others that can pay higher wages will be better off recieving more business and affording more Canadian employees, depending upon foreign workers in order to circumvent our economy is not an acceptable business model. Frankly a business that doesn't hire Canadians is no more important to me than the Canadian who never had a chance of getting a job there or who lost theirs, the poor business owner narrative that we sometimes see is ridiculous, if the business goes under they are free to compete for a job with Canadians and the multitude of other foreign workers in just about every other industry. The strong businesses will be able to pay a decent wage to Canadians, those businesses will get stronger as the others fail. Quote
Argus Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 In case you thought the system was only being abused by fast food chains -- and mines bringing in Chinese miners, we have today's story from the post on helicopter pilots unable to find work as the companies bring in cheap foreign workers instead. Canadian helicopter pilots say they’re being denied jobs in favour of cheaper temporary foreign workers. “The saddest and most outrageous part is that this will slowly kill the industry,” Bill Wadsworth, a helicopter pilot in Mayne Island, B.C., with 25 years’ experience, said in an interview Wednesday. Mr. Wadsworth said he recently applied for several jobs at B.C. companies that he learned had subsequently sought temporary foreign workers. In each case, he was told there were no openings. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/04/30/canadian-helicopter-pilots-say-cheap-temporary-foreign-workers-slowly-killing-the-industry/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 Hard to feel sorry for Canadian workers displaced by "foreigners".... ....Canadians can often gain entry to the US with greater ease than others; this preferential treatment for Canadians is linked to treaty provisions within the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). While there are many NAFTA related visas, the most useful one is the TN1. The TN1 visa was modeled on the H1B; it may only be used where the employer is based in the US... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 Hard to feel sorry for Canadian workers displaced by "foreigners".... ....Canadians can often gain entry to the US with greater ease than others; this preferential treatment for Canadians is linked to treaty provisions within the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). While there are many NAFTA related visas, the most useful one is the TN1. The TN1 visa was modeled on the H1B; it may only be used where the employer is based in the US... Any country can make jobs available on a temporary basis to foreign workers. Generally, they'll do that based upon their own domestic considerations. That there is an ability for US, Canadian and Mexcian professionals to move and work across the border on a temporary basis is not relevent to the fact that in this case it's obvious the sheer amount of the foreign workers is causing Canadians to have difficulty finding employment. It does however, mean that not all the foreign workers here come in under the foreign worker program, since Americans coming in under the NAFTA agreement would not be counted. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 NAFTA...SCHMAFTA, the general concept of foreign workers displacing domestic workers remains the same. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 NAFTA...SCHMAFTA, the general concept of foreign workers displacing domestic workers remains the same.There is no general concept. This is about a specific program that's being abused. It's not about all foreigners and it's not about immigration. It's about the TFW Program, the regulations around that, and the way companies are abusing it. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 There is no general concept. This is about a specific program that's being abused. It's not about all foreigners and it's not about immigration. It's about the TFW Program, the regulations around that, and the way companies are abusing it. Guess what? Canadians also abuse "TFW" programs in other nations. Welcome to the club. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 What does that have to do with anything? Every wrong makes a right in Dweebville. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
guyser Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 What does that have to do with anything?I guess something if....CDNs are flooding the market and getting 15% less than market rate,labour laws are being skirted, ya know, that stuff .... which we all know isnt happening. SO...it has nothing to do with anything except the obvious. Poor America must have been picked on at some point and someone has sand in their mangina. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Sounds like "Dweebville" wants all the advantages of cheap foreign labour without any of the disadvantages. Can't build a railroad that way ! Philippine nurses OK, but not Chinese miners ? Edited May 1, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WestCoastRunner Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 This program was temporarily suspended mainly because of fast food restaurants. You really can't compare this program to NAFTA. To work in the U.S. under NAFTA you need to be a professional, ie accountant, computer analyst etc. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Argus Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 NAFTA...SCHMAFTA, the general concept of foreign workers displacing domestic workers remains the same. Except it goes in both directions with NAFTA. It doesn't with this program. This program seems deliberately designed to bring in cheaper foreign workers to push down wages here. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Posted May 1, 2014 Except it goes in both directions with NAFTA. It doesn't with this program. This program seems deliberately designed to bring in cheaper foreign workers to push down wages here. Wage depression is just a natural side effect for a TFW program that was started over 40 years ago, and ramped up by Liberal and Conservative governments. Migrant farm workers didn't need any steenkin' NAFTA to work like slaves in Canada or the U.S., doing the dirty jobs that others refused. I do not think for one minute that Canadians would pipe down about TFWs if the program was bi-directional, mostly because Canadians (and Americans) already avail themselves of the plum overseas jobs and pay, eschewing lower paying positions and working conditions abroad. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/how-canada-became-addicted-to-temporary-foreign-workers-1.2627572 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) http://www.cbc.ca/ne...rkers-1.2627572 Meh. Why should anyone who quotes what a state-controlled media says be taken seriously? Seriously though, I think the best course of action is to make all current TFW's into Canadians so we can level the playing field then we should all compel our employers to get with the same Living Wage Employers Certification Program that employers in Victoria BC are being encouraged to do. Edited May 2, 2014 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Argus Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 Wage depression is just a natural side effect for a TFW program that was started over 40 years ago, and ramped up by Liberal and Conservative governments. Migrant farm workers didn't need any steenkin' NAFTA to work like slaves in Canada or the U.S., doing the dirty jobs that others refused. No, but the current foreign workers are doing jobs which have plenty of Canadians available. Big difference. Farm migrants are necessary. Fast food migrants are not. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Meh. Why should anyone who quotes what a state-controlled media says be taken seriously? Seriously though, I think the best course of action is to make all current TFW's into Canadians so we can level the playing field The best course of action is to bring in temporary foreign fishermen who will work the inshore fishery for eight cents an hour. How about that? A hundred thousand or so should do the trick. Edited May 2, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 No, but the current foreign workers are doing jobs which have plenty of Canadians available. Big difference. Farm migrants are necessary. Fast food migrants are not. No difference...why get bent out of shape over it now ? If Canadians take the "plum jobs" in other nations, surely there must be some kind of reciprocity. The economic exploitation of these workers for decades would fill another thread. Crocodile tears...... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 No, but the current foreign workers are doing jobs which have plenty of Canadians available. Big difference. Farm migrants are necessary. Fast food migrants are not.Why are you letting yourself get trolled? Quote
Argus Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 Why are you letting yourself get trolled? If I was letting myself get trolled I'd be saying something angry instead of just replying casually... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 The best course of action is to bring in temporary foreign fishermen who will work the inshore fishery for eight cents an hour. How about that? A hundred thousand or so should do the trick. I think it would be grossly unfair to simply boot all these people out after having given so much hope and opportunity. I mean, if Canada needs more workers Canada effectively also needs more Canadians. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 If I was letting myself get trolled I'd be saying something angry instead of just replying casually... Right...we were having a nice on topic discussion interrupted by another personal attack. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Peter F Posted May 2, 2014 Report Posted May 2, 2014 I think it would be grossly unfair to simply boot all these people out after having given so much hope and opportunity. I mean, if Canada needs more workers Canada effectively also needs more Canadians. I agree with that. If we need workers so bad offer the tfw's full citizenship. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
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