Canada Has A Labour Skills Shortage – Maybe

[cybercoma]

I'm not even kidding, there was a report released that showed all the businesses asking for TFWs. One of the ones in Fredericton, NB is a corner store (aka convenience store, dépanneur). What the hell do you need TFWs for at a corner store?

[cybercoma]

I managed to find it again. Here is a list of companies authorized over a 2 year period to begin bringing in TFWs if they choose. The article rightfully mentions that this does not mean the companies are currently using TFWs, but they've been given authorization by the Harper Government to be able to use them if they so choose.

I want to know why the government has given authorization to all of these businesses for TFWs. I can see giving authorization for labour intensive industries that require a large amount of bodies for a short period of time, i.e., agriculture. However, a number of these companies are chain restaurants and hotels for example. There is absolutely no reason, especially in places like NB where unemployment is incredibly high, that the government should allow this.

[eyeball]

My wife was told by a government agent that she was wasting her time applying for employment at a local luxury resort. My wife had applied several times for advertised positions that she was entirely qualified for.

The government agent told her the resort was merely fulfilling their requirement to advertise so they could qualify for the FW program.

When I think about the blow to her self esteem and angst she's gone through in pursuit of a job I feel like burning the resort and the government agents office to the ground.

She finally has found work and she just got a 25% raise...up to the same amount the FW's are getting.

[Smallc]

I think it looks like the program should be ended.

[overthere]

3 million Albertans would go without their double-doubles and bad muffins if they ended the program.

[Peter F]

absolutely...the fact that the law allows business to pay 15% less than the going wage is the give-away to what this FW thing is all about.

(in ref to Small C's post)

3 million Albertans would go without their double-doubles and bad muffins if they ended the program.

No they wouldn't...they'd just have to wait in line longer.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Peter F

[Smallc]

That's not a good reason. It's pretty clear now it's taking jobs from Canadians. That's not even close to okay.

[Michael Hardner]

Since this is a discussion around economics, we should probably start moving away from anecdotes and towards some numbers soon. What do you think ?

[Smallc]

I don't know I think the anecdotes are starting to become too plentiful to ignore.

[Michael Hardner]

I don't know I think the anecdotes are starting to become too plentiful to ignore.

That's called politics, and you can't discount it. But it's not the same as facts.

[eyeball]

Since this is a discussion around economics, we should probably start moving away from anecdotes and towards some numbers soon. What do you think ?

I think too many figures lie and too many liars figure to rely on numbers alone.

I have no problem matching up what I see happening on the ground where I live to what I hear others reporting where they live and relying on my gut instincts to give me an accurate sense of what's happening. Why others have such a problem with this is their problem.

[cybercoma]

I think it looks like the program should be ended.

I think there's some situations where it's required or even a good thing.

[Michael Hardner]

I think too many figures lie and too many liars figure to rely on numbers alone.

Sure. I don't think we have any liars on here, though, so I'd like to hear what people have to back up their ideas.

I have no problem matching up what I see happening on the ground where I live to what I hear others reporting where they live and relying on my gut instincts to give me an accurate sense of what's happening. Why others have such a problem with this is their problem.

Nobody has a problem with small towns dying, factories closing, farmers getting closed out, and people being offshored. You should know that by now.

[Argus]

Since this is a discussion around economics, we should probably start moving away from anecdotes and towards some numbers soon. What do you think ?

The laws of capitalism aren't up for discussion, and numbers don't matter. If you have trouble finding employees, you raise your wages and benefits to make it more attractive to workers. This is an ostensibly capitalist loving, ostensibly conservative government which seems to throw out the laws of capitalism whenever they might benefit workers instead of employers.

I recognize there are certain high skilled jobs which this program can help fulfill -- in the short term. I even recognize there might be some industries which are important to Canada which cannot survive in a high wage environment where they have to compete with low wage workers in other countries.

The service industry is most definitely not among them. There is no logical reason why ANY service industry should be able to hire foreign workers. It is nothing more than an effort to subvert the laws of capitalism in order to allow corporations to keep wages low, and no real conservative government would support it.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Argus

[Smallc]

I think there's some situations where it's required or even a good thing.

I can't think of many.

[Michael Hardner]

The laws of capitalism aren't up for discussion, and numbers don't matter. If you have trouble finding employees, you raise your wages and benefits to make it more attractive to workers. This is an ostensibly capitalist loving, ostensibly conservative government which seems to throw out the laws of capitalism whenever they might benefit workers instead of employers.

Well, clearly you don't do that. You bring in workers who will work at a lower wage. Why are you ignoring the obvious as if there's some moral truth that everybody buys into ?

See BC's footer tag about morality and economics.

[cybercoma]

The laws of capitalism aren't up for discussion, and numbers don't matter. If you have trouble finding employees, you raise your wages and benefits to make it more attractive to workers. This is an ostensibly capitalist loving, ostensibly conservative government which seems to throw out the laws of capitalism whenever they might benefit workers instead of employers.

I recognize there are certain high skilled jobs which this program can help fulfill -- in the short term. I even recognize there might be some industries which are important to Canada which cannot survive in a high wage environment where they have to compete with low wage workers in other countries.

The service industry is most definitely not among them. There is no logical reason why ANY service industry should be able to hire foreign workers. It is nothing more than an effort to subvert the laws of capitalism in order to allow corporations to keep wages low, and no real conservative government would support it.

And meanwhile, we'll all sit back and ignore the fact that youth unemployment is ridiculously high by turning our noses up at them, calling them lazy, and blaming them for not being able to find jobs.

[Michael Hardner]

And meanwhile, we'll all sit back and ignore the fact that youth unemployment is ridiculously high by turning our noses up at them, calling them lazy, and blaming them for not being able to find jobs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/the-unpaid-internship-doorway-to-employment-or-unfair-exploitation/article17737005/

Interesting debate on the unpaid intern situation, which seems apropos.

[cybercoma]

Unpaid internships are another serious problem. If students are shadowing an employee and not doing any work that earns the company a profit. Then it's a fine program and a great learning opportunity. If companies are going to use the students as a productive employee, working on projects that the company will make a profit from, then it's exploitation and should be stopped.

[Michael Hardner]

Unpaid internships are another serious problem. If students are shadowing an employee and not doing any work that earns the company a profit. Then it's a fine program and a great learning opportunity. If companies are going to use the students as a productive employee, working on projects that the company will make a profit from, then it's exploitation and should be stopped.

Jesse Brown gives it a good review here: http://canadalandshow.com/end-internships/

It seems that a lot of the companies that are doing this are not otherwise viable, like magazines.

[bush_cheney2004]

Jesse Brown gives it a good review here: http://canadalandshow.com/end-internships/

It seems that a lot of the companies that are doing this are not otherwise viable, like magazines.

Interesting....our single division (part of a large publishing multinational) will employ about 35 interns starting in May (end of university semester). They will be paid about $19 per hour with benefits for 32+ hour work weeks. One difference might be that our intern program is an integral part of the HR recruiting model, with the expectation that interns will convert into full time employees after graduation...most do. The interns do productive work for monthly software releases and are welcomed members of the team.

[cybercoma]

And they're not working for free. Nothing wrong with making money off intern productivity if you're paying them.

[Michael Hardner]

The interns do productive work for monthly software releases and are welcomed members of the team.

I made more in 1985 as an intern than most make today. The secret is that software skills are in demand, pretty much across the board. Being a pundit, not so much.

[bush_cheney2004]

I made more in 1985 as an intern than most make today. The secret is that software skills are in demand, pretty much across the board. Being a pundit, not so much.

Some organizations just waste the mutual opportunity that interns represent. We like the energy and modern application perspectives that they bring to the team ( meaning some of us old farts are clueless). Couple years back it was an intern that discovered an arcane but very serious flaw in a third party scientific calculator app that would have shipped with our product had it not been detected.

Edited April 23, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[overthere]

absolutely...the fact that the law allows business to pay 15% less than the going wage is the give-away to what this FW thing is all about.

(in ref to Small C's post)

No they wouldn't...they'd just have to wait in line longer.

Yes, they would.

Don't assume that conditions where you live apply everywhere in Canada, that is just not true.

The last time we had a labour shortage this bad (about 7 years ago) in my part of Alberta, numerous businesses either closed their doors, went to severely reduced hours or radically changed their practices to stay afloat. Those numerous businesses were right in my trading area. That was in spite of paying well over minimum wage, offering cash bonuses for working 500+ hours, and other incentives.

One of the other problems they had, other than getting staff at all, was retaining them. The competition was fierce for all labour and that includes unskilled labour, so wages went up and up, nobody who paid minimum wage could get anybody to work. Those they did attract would be gone overnight for another $1/hour, not that I blame them at all.

The same situation is starting to happen again here.

But... some businesses have now hedged their bets with foreign workers. They still pay more than minimum wage, but their workers have a tougher time moving to other jobs..