BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[sharkman]

My wife is also a teacher on the prairies and she also works very hard, hard enough to win several awards for excellence from her school board and parents wrangling to get her as a teacher for their lil darlings. But she also recognizes that her work is clean , dry, warm, meaningful, rewarding and well paid with enviable benefits.

You don't 'endure' anything at university, teacher certification requires a 4 year BEd degree, which requires the same effort as any arts degree. If you take 5 years you must be getting a Masters, which means you are paid more. Oh, and if a person is certain they'll onl;y get part time work, why would they invest all that time and money to enter the profession to begin with? Duh. More likely they find that jobs in the cities are harder to get than jobs in remote locations, a fact which has existed for decades.

Go into debt not collecting a cheque in the summer?? Now you're just making shit up. Teachers on contract are paid for all 12 months, not 10. If your family is unable to afford a middle class lifestyle on generous middle class pay, perhaps you should get some financial management counselling. If your spouse teaches high school, there will be somebody teaching life management skills on staff.

Cameron wants to restrict public sector staff costs to reasonable levels. I understand that chokes the unions, it is something from the real world they have rarely encountered before.

1) In BC you need 5 years of education to teach. I didn't just pull that out of a hat, did you wonder why no one else challenged me on that? It's not a masters either.

2) Part time work is not a certainty, finding a job at all is the issue. The teaching jobs are few in BC. My wife has a co-worker who has been on call(substitute)since she got hired(3 years), and teaches night school courses as well. 25% of her pay is teaching summer school, which she didn't get this year, and it's been quite tough for her. Not sure what the situation is on the Prairies, but in BC this is common.

3)Salaries are paid out over 10 months still in some school districts. My wife only got the option of a 12 month salary (holding back some of each cheque for 2 monthly payments in the summer) 3 years ago in her district. Your problem is you think because they do things a certain way where you live, it's like that everywhere. I'm not sure why you'd make that assumption. Perhaps you should read up on the situation in BC before sounding off.

Edited August 31, 2014 by sharkman

[sharkman]

T

It does but both sides are throwing numbers around with no specifics so they really don't mean much.

Well according to Pct, one side is a union so they are idiots, and the other side is the Liberal government, so hey, he calls 'em like he sees 'em!

[Pct2017]

Well according to Pct, one side is a union so they are idiots, and the other side is the Liberal government, so hey, he calls 'em like he sees 'em!

Now, now Sharkman, I have asked you previously to show any evidence in anything I have ever posted which shows I have any animosity towards unions that are not run by teachers. I happen to believe strongly in unions. Having said that, do I believe that the teachers union, and by extension the teachers themselves are idiots? Well, yes I do. And I will continue to do so until they stop acting like idiots.

[Topaz]

It doesn't matter what party is governing , ALL provinces have had their problems with the teachers. So, I wondering if its possible for the provinces to exit out education, and it become a private business?

[Wilber]

It doesn't matter what party is governing , ALL provinces have had their p

roblems with the teachers. So, I wondering if its possible for the provinces to exit out education, and it become a private business?

Maybe but it would still have to be a publicly funded system. By law a child is entitled to a publicly funded education from K to grade 12 and must attend school from age 5 to 16.

[Derek 2.0]

Heard on the local news tonight that teachers are still sticking to their demand for a $5000 signing bonus, to make-up for the wages lost during their strike……….

There are over 40000 members of the BCTF………40000 BCTF members X $5000 signing bonus = teachers won’t be back for some time

I also thought it strange that they refused to put the portion pertaining to the court case off.......neither side will budge on this until after October, and all the following appeals.........so why not put it off? The only reasoning I could see for the teachers refusal, is that if they did, the remaining issues will be pertaining to their wages demands, signing bonus, benefits and class size & composition (ie working conditions) etc......

[Derek 2.0]

It doesn't matter what party is governing , ALL provinces have had their problems with the teachers. So, I wondering if its possible for the provinces to exit out education, and it become a private business?

This is true in BC........they were just as bad with past Social Credit and NDP Governments.

[Wilber]

According to Global, that came from a series of tweets from Christy Clark. When they asked to speak to her about them, she never got back. Seems like we are back to where we started. Lot's of spin but little substance from either side.

[Hal 9000]

This is true in BC........they were just as bad with past Social Credit and NDP Governments.

I don't know that the teachers have ever willfully settled on a deal - with anybody!

[sharkman]

They did, last contract before the Olympics actually. It was the one before that where the Liberal government gave them a raise in the last year of the contract, but didn't bother to fund the raise. They forced school boards across BC to scramble, go into debt and once again cut programs for students to fund the raise.

[sharkman]

Heard on the local news tonight that teachers are still sticking to their demand for a $5000 signing bonus, to make-up for the wages lost during their strike……….

There are over 40000 members of the BCTF………40000 BCTF members X $5000 signing bonus = teachers won’t be back for some time

I also thought it strange that they refused to put the portion pertaining to the court case off.......neither side will budge on this until after October, and all the following appeals.........so why not put it off? The only reasoning I could see for the teachers refusal, is that if they did, the remaining issues will be pertaining to their wages demands, signing bonus, benefits and class size & composition (ie working conditions) etc......

The bonus will be negotiated if and when the government is finally willing to move off of their hard line. Just like with previous contracts and bonuses. And do you have any idea how many members of the BCTF are not full time? They wouldn't be getting a full bonus.

BTW, what do you think the government is doing with the windfall revenue they are saving with the strike, you do know that school boards don't get their funding when there's a strike? The government gets quite a windfall whenever a strike happens, the bonuses would come out of that no doubt.

Edited September 1, 2014 by sharkman

[Wilber]

They did, last contract before the Olympics actually. It was the one before that where the Liberal government gave them a raise in the last year of the contract, but didn't bother to fund the raise. They forced school boards across BC to scramble, go into debt and once again cut programs for students to fund the raise.

I can remember the school boards being really ticked about that. They were getting raked by the government for going over budget trying to fund a raise given but not funded by the province Edited September 1, 2014 by Wilber

[Pct2017]

BTW, what do you think the government is doing with the windfall revenue they are saving with the strike, you do know that school boards don't get their funding when there's a strike? The government gets quite a windfall whenever a strike happens, the bonuses would come out of that no doubt.

It is certainly no secret that the government has committed to using the money not spent on the whiny teachers to fund the $40/day for parents. This information is pretty readily available, so it does make me wonder just how much effort you are making to stay educated about this strike.

[sharkman]

It is certainly no secret that the government has committed to using the money not spent on the whiny teachers to fund the $40/day for parents. This information is pretty readily available, so it does make me wonder just how much effort you are making to stay educated about this strike.

My information is that they can't fund that $40/day, it would be illegal unless they first pass legislation which they can only do once back in session in October. But thanks for the heads up.

Edited September 1, 2014 by sharkman

[Wilber]

It is certainly no secret that the government has committed to using the money not spent on the whiny teachers to fund the $40/day for parents. This information is pretty readily available, so it does make me wonder just how much effort you are making to stay educated about this strike.

It's money being stolen from the education budget to provide baby sitting bribe money to parents of kids under 13. Whether it goes to the teachers is not the issue, it is money earmarked for education. It is a risky strategy by the government. People with kids between 13 and 18 are seeing money that should also be going educate their kids being spent to buy votes. My daughter has three kids in school over the age or twelve and only one under. She's not impressed. It's a move that could very well blow up in their faces.

[Derek 2.0]

The bonus will be negotiated if and when the government is finally willing to move off of their hard line. Just like with previous contracts and bonuses. And do you have any idea how many members of the BCTF are not full time? They wouldn't be getting a full bonus.

How many aren't full time? Also, what size bonus would they get?

Let's assume that only half of BCTF members are full-time...........20000 x $5000 = ?

$100000000 would sure go quite a ways to BC Education and students........as opposed to teachers that choose to strike, and in turn, loose wages....

BTW, what do you think the government is doing with the windfall revenue they are saving with the strike, you do know that school boards don't get their funding when there's a strike? The government gets quite a windfall whenever a strike happens, the bonuses would come out of that no doubt.

A portion is going to fun the $40 dollars a day (as mentioned by Pct)...........as to the rest, I hope it stays in general revenue......it's money collected by BC taxpayers, to pay for public education..........if teachers choose not to work, that's their choice......

I had some level of sympathy for teachers on some of the issues (my sister and brother in-law are teachers), but with a demand for signing bonus???

I now feel the Government should pull a Reagan, fire the lot of them, and offer to rehire teachers as “administrators”, let’s call them Vice-vice principals, with the current Government offer, no seniority, and the ability to select teaching positions on a first come, first serve basis………I would hazard a guess that most positions would be filled rather quick.

[Wilber]

I pay sales, income, property and school taxes in this province. I am paying for a service required by law but it isn't being provided. Either provide the service or change the law and give me my money back. I am not interested in it being used by a government for mad or bribe money.

Right now, I am hearing numbers thrown around by both sides but no specifics as to the actual negotiations, so none of us really know what the hell is going on. Our so called Premier is all over this on Facebook and Twitter but won't talk to anyone or answer questions. Meanwhile, the kids aren't going to school cause the "grownups" can't get out of the godam sandbox.

Rant over. For now.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Wilber

[Pct2017]

My information is that they can't fund that $40/day, it would be illegal unless they first pass legislation which they can only do once back in session in October. But thanks for the heads up.

I believe that is called wishful thinking there my friend. But if you can provide any evidence of this, please feel free. You are likely confused by the fact that there will be no interim payments made to parents, only one big payment for those who applied once the teachers sober up and go back to work.

It is interesting in that I had said a few weeks ago that the number of parents who signed up for this program would be a fairly accurate representation of how much support there is actually out there for the whiny teachers. If you really support them, you are not going to accept the money that takes away a ton of leverage from the BCTF. Well, yesterday was the first day that registration was available and the whole system crashed under the weight of the demand.

There has also been some bemoaning about why is the funding only available to parents with kids under 13. Well, the reasoning behind that decision is obvious and only those with severe thinking limitations would not see this. But, when you think about it, any enterprising teenagers out there will certainly make themselves available for babysitting, thus they are able to cash in on the $40/day also.

[Pct2017]

I pay sales, income, property and school taxes in this province. I am paying for a service required by law but it isn't being provided. Either provide the service or change the law and give me my money back. I am not interested in it being used by a government for mad or bribe money.

Right now, I am hearing numbers thrown around by both sides but no specifics as to the actual negotiations, so none of us really know what the hell is going on. Our so called Premier is all over this on Facebook and Twitter but won't talk to anyone or answer questions. Meanwhile, the kids aren't going to school cause the "grownups" can't get out of the godam sandbox.

Rant over. For now.

Wilber, before quoting laws and acts, maybe read them first. The actual requirement in the School Act Regulations is for about 170 days of instruction for grades 8 to 12 and slightly less for lower grades. We are nowhere close to not being able to meet that requirement now, nor shall we be until early October. All this strike will do is render out the various forms of playtime that teachers engage in during the year. No more videos, quiet reading time in grade 9(!!), no more pro-D's, no Spring Break. Just, pure plain instruction to meet the curriculum.

But please do not stop the rants. I enjoy them.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Pct2017

[Bryan]

The bonus will be negotiated if and when the government is finally willing to move off of their hard line.

Is the BCTF willing to move off of their hard line of getting any raise at all? The govt finances are such that what needs to be done is a cut. Best case scenario, they should not be promising anything more than status quo. And yet, they have very generously offered modest increases, and the BCTF is spitting in their faces. At this point, each new offer from the province should be less than the last one.

[Bob Macadoo]

Is the BCTF willing to move off of their hard line of getting any raise at all? The govt finances are such that what needs to be done is a cut. Best case scenario, they should not be promising anything more than status quo. And yet, they have very generously offered modest increases, and the BCTF is spitting in their faces. At this point, each new offer from the province should be less than the last one.

Remind me not to put you to negotiate for me......you're not haggling at a garage sale here......

[Hal 9000]

Well, i think the teachers should get a small "cost of living" raise due to inflation, but usually bigger raises are tied to performance - and since teachers don't want to have anything close to a review of their performance any raise should directly correlate with inflation.

[Wilber]

Wilber, before quoting laws and acts, maybe read them first. The actual requirement in the School Act Regulations is for about 170 days of instruction for grades 8 to 12 and slightly less for lower grades. We are nowhere close to not being able to meet that requirement now, nor shall we be until early October. All this strike will do is render out the various forms of playtime that teachers engage in during the year. No more videos, quiet reading time in grade 9(!!), no more pro-D's, no Spring Break. Just, pure plain instruction to meet the curriculum.

But please do not stop the rants. I enjoy them.

No more sports, or anything else I guess. Is that your plan? Go for it and accept the consequences. Just don't piss away the tax money I pay toward education to fight a labour battle. These idiots have had more than a year to get a deal done and have accomplished nothing. Absolutely dick. Time for binding arbitration or at least a recommended settlement from a mediator. One they will reject at their peril because there is no way they are capable of doing it themselves.

[overthere]

BTW, what do you think the government is doing with the windfall revenue they are saving with the strike,

Is that a trick question, or just a lack of familiarity with basic economic concepts?

There is no significant revenue associated with the strike.

The government expenses will drop, but there is no extra money coming in.

hth

[overthere]

I pay sales, income, property and school taxes in this province. I am paying for a service required by law but it isn't being provided. Either provide the service or change the law and give me my money back. I am not interested in it being used by a government for mad or bribe money.

Right now, I am hearing numbers thrown around by both sides but no specifics as to the actual negotiations, so none of us really know what the hell is going on. Our so called Premier is all over this on Facebook and Twitter but won't talk to anyone or answer questions. Meanwhile, the kids aren't going to school cause the "grownups" can't get out of the godam sandbox.

Rant over. For now.

So you'd be in favour of the government recruiting a new crew of teachers willing to actually work? Me too!

Since most or all of the faculties of education routinely crank out more graduates than jobs, it will be easy.