BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[TimG]

We pay doctors according to the number of patients they can shove through their practice in a day, not according to the quality of care they give.

Well in small centers with limited doctors then a doctor working to see as many patients as required IS providing the quality needed in the location (i.e. by reducing the time it takes to get an appointment and see the doctor which can be more important than time with the doctor).

For doctors in large centers where people have choices then doctors who give bad service will lose patients so the market ensures that doctors must balance the number of patients with quality of care.

IOW - the doctor compensation system does encourage the doctors to perform better. We need something similar that works for the environment that teachers work in.

Edited August 29, 2014 by TimG

[sharkman]

We pay doctors according to the number of patients they can shove through their practice in a day, not according to the quality of care they give. I guess you would call that a market based system but does anyone think it is a good one?

Excellent point! Add in the fact that shortages of doctors seem to be growing and waiting lines in emergency admittance and you have service that is suffering. My mother and father lived in a small town of 4000 until recently, and the single old doctor there is a miserable cuss who is very abrasive and overworked. Our medical system has been transformed into a capitalistic entity to some extent and it shows. My father had a five bypass open heart surgery in Burnaby and they released him 4 days after, knowing he would have to be driven 6 hours back to their home. Ridiculous! But they needed the bed for the next heart patient.

[TimG]

Add in the fact that shortages of doctors seem to be growing and waiting lines in emergency admittance and you have service that is suffering.

And giving rich settlements to unions representing workers where there is no shortage will only result in money being taken from places where is it needed more.

[Wilber]

Well in small centers with limited doctors then a doctor working to see as many patients as required IS providing the quality needed in the location (i.e. by reducing the time it takes to get an appointment and see the doctor which can be more important than time with the doctor).

For doctors in large centers where people have choices then doctors who give bad service will lose patients so the market ensures that doctors must balance the number of patients with quality of care.

IOW - the doctor compensation system does encourage the doctors to perform better. We need something similar that works for the environment that teachers work in.

He is providing the quality available which may have nothing to do with the quality needed.

There is a shortage of GP's in most areas, including urban areas. Many people can't get a GP and have to rely on drop in clinics. You can wait months to see a specialist. There is very little choice in our system.

A doctor has to pay his bills with the income he can generate. You get your allotted time and that's it, otherwise the economic model doesn't work.

[sharkman]

He is providing the quality available which may have nothing to do with the quality needed.

There is a shortage of GP's in most areas, including urban areas. Many people can't get a GP and have to rely on drop in clinics. You can wait months to see a specialist. There is very little choice in our system.

A doctor has to pay his bills with the income he can generate. You get your allotted time and that's it, otherwise the economic model doesn't work.

But they've saved so much money with the walk in clinics, how dare you criticize that! I dearly hope our education system does not become the shell of its former self that our medical system has become.

[TimG]

There is a shortage of GP's in most areas, including urban areas. Many people can't get a GP and have to rely on drop in clinics. You can wait months to see a specialist.

So you agree that doctors seeing as many patients as possible is exactly what the system needs to relieve the backlogs?

[Wilber]

So you agree that doctors seeing as many patients as possible is exactly what the system needs to relieve the backlogs?

No, getting the people the treatment they require in a timely manner will relieve the backlogs. The number of patients seen per hour is just a bean counter exercise.

[socialist]

Teachers are fighting for classroom conditions for both students and teachers of the future. Roughly 30-50% of Canadian teachers leave the profession within their first 5 years in the profession. Replacing good and committed teachers with other good and committed teachers is not as easy as you seem to think.

[waldo]

Teachers are fighting for classroom conditions for both students and teachers

I keep hearing this constant bleat about classroom numbers but never a word about those actual numbers... what's the current ratio/number... what are those fighting in the trenches teachers after in this regard?

[Hal 9000]

I keep hearing this constant bleat about classroom numbers but never a word about those actual numbers... what's the current ratio/number... what are those fighting in the trenches teachers after in this regard?

You can't ask direct questions because all you'll get is this;

What's the current ratio/number? A: Too many

What are those fighting in the trenches teachers after in this regard? A: Smaller classes

[overthere]

Of course the BCTF wants smaller classes. Smaller classes means there are more teachers, it is basic and inescapable math. More teachers means more fat union dues.

But...... THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!.

[socialist]

I keep hearing this constant bleat about classroom numbers but never a word about those actual numbers... what's the current ratio/number... what are those fighting in the trenches teachers after in this regard?

A majority of classes are over 25 and many classes have 6 or 7 special needs students. There is no support for these kids. Think about that waldo. Volunteer some time in a public school some day waldo and see for yourself instead of writing nonsense on here. Go to a school in your city and experience for yourself what teachers have to deal with day in and day out.

[socialist]

Of course the BCTF wants smaller classes. Smaller classes means there are more teachers, it is basic and inescapable math. More teachers means more fat union dues.

But...... THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!.

One of the most ridiculous posts in this 65 page thread.

[socialist]

I keep hearing this constant bleat about classroom numbers but never a word about those actual numbers... what's the current ratio/number... what are those fighting in the trenches teachers after in this regard?

Here waldo. This deals with the composition issue.

[socialist]

[socialist]

[socialist]

[socialist]

[Hal 9000]

Here waldo. This deals with the composition issue.

That chart is not totally correct. And, the special needs are only there for portions of the day because they have their own 1 on 1 time.

The problem with special needs though is that some go undiagnosed, and therefore get no support work. The school districts would like to diagnose those kids and hire more EA workers, but they can't because the BCTF wants more teachers instead. More teachers will not drastically reduce any of these numbers and would not come close to solving this issue. More EA's would be the solution and you can hire 4 of them for the cost of 1 teacher.

[Hal 9000]

Is the GDP calculated with inflation or without? And why should GDP have any influence on teachers wages, they're not producing or selling anything. Their wage should correlate with inflation, not economic growth. The BCTF can spew all sorts of numbers, this is propaganda.

However, it's good to see that the BCTF have such faith in Christy Clark to show such an increase in growth.

[Hal 9000]

If you could itemize these expenditures, it sure would help.

[Hal 9000]

This reinforces my stance that we need to get the special needs teachers back.

[socialist]

This one says it all.

[Hal 9000]

This one says it all.

What this says is the northern provinces pay a crapload to keep the territory kids in school. Probably many small schools with fewer students, busses, more special needs, higher paid teachers because of remoteness etc. Nothing I would't expect in that graph. As far as all the other provinces, we're within couple hundred bucks.

Careful of getting manipulated by the BCTF.

[Wilber]

Even when you take the territories out, it's quite a bit more than a couple of hundred bucks compared to the top four. It depends on how the territories are factored into the equation. Because they have so few students. Compared to the provinces, they shouldn't influence a nationwide average that much. Neither should PEI. It would be interesting to see this from an independent. Non political source.