Pct2017

I think you really have to look at both sides of the equation before you advocate banning public sector unions. The unions are always going to press hard for better wages and bennies for their members. That is why they exist. But instead of howling at them, why are you not turning at least part of your angst at your duly elected governments? It is the politicians and their minions who have agreed to pay the wages that the unions have demanded/negotiated. Why not advocate for better fiscal responsibility on the part of the government on election day. There is no rule that states that the employer must give anything to the union during negotiations, but they must have the stones to say so and back it up with action. Unfortunately, governments of all stripes have become used to taking the easy path and simply saying yes to union demands, in part because they truly do not believe that there will be any political fall out for doing so. Only the electorate can change this mindset. If you want to see an example of how it can be done, take a look at the BCTF/BC government negotiations last year. The BC government simply said no to the demands of the BCTF and then they held their ground. The BCTF had no idea what to do and eventually agreed to what I believe, as a taxpayer, was a reasonable settlement.

Predictions? 1) The federal elections will happen in October and one party will likely win more seats than the others. 2) The BCTF and it's whiny members will find something to bitch and moan about. 3) The Canucks will not win the Cup. You are welcome.

Now, you say you understand polls. But then you staunchly defend them. Speak out of one side of your mouth. Polls have been proven to be utterly worthless in pretty much every Canadian election for over four years. Yes, they got Aberta right this time around, but you know what they say about blind squirrels and nuts. So, why is Mulclair so popular in BC? I have no idea if he is or not. I will tell you if he is or not after the one poll that is actually accurate in October.

Huh, I did not realize the election had been held already. Must be a time zone thing. But if you are referring to polls, well out West, we do not put much value in polls or pollsters. Their track records are a tad sketchy.

And every day, British Columbians thank the heavens above for that fact. We are very fortunate out here to have a generally intelligent electorate. One day that may be true in Ontario, but today is not that day.

All that Ontario has to do is look west to BC if it wants to figure out how to stand up to the teacher's outdated unions. Just say no. Simple as that. The teachers unions are not used to that tactic and it unsettles them. Want to go on strike there teachers? Sure go ahead. The offer that was put before you will be waiting for you after you have gone without a paycheque for (in the case of the BCTF) 7 plus weeks. Ontario - just say no to the teachers. It is a very simple, but extremely effective solution.

Don't suppose you would care to back that up with any facts or citations? 5.8 million Canadians voted Conservative in 2011. Is it your assertion that most of those people were high school drop outs?

I was listening to the Vancouver talking heads radio show shortly after this decision came down on Friday and they had an interview with Jim Iker. Now, granted this was not a stellar day for the head of the most reviled union in the province, but it was pretty funny listening to him. He actually stated that now that the Court of Appeal had made it's decision, he hoped that the government would come to the table and negotiate class size and composition into the BCTF's contract. So, let's summarize there Jim. The government has been scrapping with your union since 2002 regarding whether the union or the duly elected government should control the work place. Now, 13 years later, the courts agree that the union has no business meddling in these affairs. So, his response? Well, it was very much like a boxer who is laying flat out on the canvas as the referee counts to eight. The doomed boxer looks way up at his opponent and say "Now do you concede?" Pretty funny reaction there Jim.

Well, that is a pretty simple solution to all the economic problems of the world. Pay everyone a huge pile of money and everything will be puppies and unicorns forever. Kind of the ultimate Ponzi Scheme.

And, any final words on this subject there Sharky? Let's see now, four out of five judges on the BC Court of Appeals not only side with the governments position, but they take the time to skewer one of their own, Justice Susan Griffin who screwed up the original court case. And they required the BCTF to give back the $2 million. The BCTF no longer has power over our elected government to decide how many teachers will be employed (think autoworkers union telling Ford how many union members they would have to hire to make each car) Guess it was not that dumb after all, huh?

See, now look at you and I talking in a civilized manner. Who would have thought. OK, if you have to ask what was wrong with your posts for the last year and a half, then I cannot answer. All I can say is read your two posts last night and then randomly pick any two posts prior and look at the difference. Now, as to your statement that you cannot speak your mind due to your professional code of conduct, that is interesting. I have not read the Ontario College of Teachers (hell, I do not even know if such an overseeing body exists as it does not here in BC) Code of Conduct, but it is pretty standard for most professional associations to cover the conduct of one member complaining about a fellow member in a public manor. Generally there are no repercussions regarding a member speaking out against practices. So, if that is indeed true then you appear to be saying that some members of the teaching profession (and I am loath to assign that designation to teachers) are the core of what is wrong in education in Canada. I do believe that if that is what you are eluding to, and that seems to be born out in your post last evening, then you are actually supporting what pretty much everyone on this forum has been stating.

Well, what a conundrum I find myself in. Just this very morning I had a discussion with The Facilator about how it was just no fun around these parts of the inter web anymore. Young Socialist was getting boring and batting him about presented no challenge, so maybe it was time to move onto other pastures. Then Young Socialist writes two posts this evening that are even, well articulated, thought provoking and non-confrontational. No cartoons, no references to loopy left wing websites, just his own thoughts. Now, do not get me wrong, I do not necessarily agree with much of what he wrote, but for the first time ever, I have to take him seriously. Where has this been for the past year and a half? I must admit I ran bits of both posts through anti-plagiarism sites, and lo and behold, these seem to be original thoughts expressed by our young friend. Now, you may ask yourselves, is old PCT just jerking us around or using sarcasm to belittle Socialist. Well, no. I am here to say that I am impressed with the very marked, dramatic and vastly more effectual style of posting that Socialist has provided us with this evening. Bravo young man, bravo. Now, try your darnedest to keep it up and you never know, maybe we can engage in meaningful discourse.

I was originally not going to respond to this post for obvious reasons, but I feel that I should give Hernaday a chance to rescind with one plausible outlet for his words. Namely, were you drunk or stoned when you wrote this? Please say yes as that is the best case scenario. Otherwise, you are a very troubled, bigoted individual whose writings really should be marginalized after this post.

Much has been made on this tread about how teachers have two university degrees and how that in itself should justify huge salaries. Let us just take a step back and look at that. If you enter the fields of nursing or forestry or engineering or any other applied science, you commit to five years of courses that relate to your chosen profession. If you go into a co-op program then most of your summers are committed to actual work experience in your field. The depth of knowledge required to make you ready to practise takes a full five years. Now, let us compare that to the teachers and their two "degrees". Four years are spent getting whatever degree you want. Feel a yearning to learn about Latin? Go for it. Religious studies interests you? Fine by the Faculty of Education. General Studies more to your skill set? C'mon in. Please do not get me wrong, all education is important to the minds development, but in most cases the initial degree leading to a B. Ed. has nothing to do with learning how to practise in the field of education. It is only in the second "degree" that the prospective teachers are actually immersed in the skills required to teach. And even at that, it only take 12 months (BC) to provide the students with all the skills they need. So, yes, teachers do have two "degrees", but for most, the first has nothing to do with the field of teaching and the second only takes a year to achieve. It is actually quite damning to the argument that teaching is difficult if everything that a future teacher needs to know can be taught in a year.

In the private sector, job evaluations are often done on a basis of 360 degrees. In other words, not only are you evaluated by your boss(es), but those reporting to also have a chance to evaluate you. I have never understood why this could not form a part of teacher evaluations, particularly at the upper grades. Let students, parents and fellow teachers have meaningful input on a teachers performance evaluation and you will generally get a very accurate summary. Yes, there will be axes to grind, but when averages are applied, the outliers will be apparent. Leave the technical parts of the job to be evaluated by administration for sure, but parents and students generally have a very good grasp on whether a teacher is good at teaching or not.

In the last couple of weeks, we have found out that Young Socialist believes that all older teachers are incompetent and are ill prepared to teach students in the modern classroom. He has also cast aside all teachers in the private school system due to the fact that he believes them all to be corrupt and unprofessional, answering only to their masters, not to the students. Now it turns out that Hermesdays believes that all young teachers are pretty much stupid because only the dullest of university grads would go into teaching with the brighter grads making hundreds of thousands of tax free dollars in the private sector. Soooo, if the two biggest teacher cheerleaders on the forum have written off 100% of all teachers for various reasons, could someone explain to me why any teacher in any province is deserving of a raise?

Sorry, I did not elocute that very well. Teachers are not laid off during the summer months, they are on holidays. If they choose to get paid over 10 months rather than 12, that is their choice, but they are not laid off. If they cannot get a permanent job after the end of school in June, then they should be eligible for EI as they are unemployed at that point.

He is writing finals. Just saying. First year likely.

Hernaday, Wow, where to start. Let us begin with the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund. Google it along with the word contributions and you will see that all teacher contributions are matched by the government. And do you even have a clue what the difference is between define contribution and defined benefit pension means? Please believe me, all teachers get DB, but if you want to campaign for them to have to switch to DC, I will back you 100%. Now onto the humorous. Could you provide one documented case of a teacher losing her hearing as a direct result of noise in the workplace. I know, I know, we can ask you for documentations or citations all we want and you will continue your diatribes without any trivial matters such as proof. Teachers are in actual fact eligible for EI, but only if they are unemployed, which plenty are. If the are on holidays, then they do not deserve EI any more than you or when we take holidays. And did you really say teachers "only" have two months holidays. Really? Look, it would be easy peasy to tear apart pretty much everything you wrote, but that would be boring. At the end of the day, your contribution to the thread is that teachers should be given pretty much whatever pay raise they think they deserve, or so it would appear. I hope you are in the minority if you are a resident of Ontario. Out here in BC, our duly elected government simply said no to the BCTF During their prolonged strike/negotiations last year and I hope other provincial governments took note. But our province has a balanced budget and one of the lowest income tax levels and really, what other province would want to offer that to its citizens?

Sorry, I don't have a clue who Jack Ma is or what Alibaba does. But it must be important to you. OK, you are going to have to back up some of you statements with hard data. The biggie here is sick days and pensions. No, not everyone in private work gets sick days much less more than what teachers get. Having said that, I actually do not begrudge a teacher sick days. They are exposed to every bug that children get. What I do begrudge is the ability to carry sick days forward. Now for your whopper. Yes, teachers do contribute to their pensions, but no, they do not fund it entirely. As a taxpayer, I am a bit shocked that you would not be aware of that. The best example I can give you is for the BC teachers. They contribute about 14% of their wages to their defined benefit pension and the taxpayers contribute another 16%. Plus, the taxpayers guarantee that there will be enough money in the pension fund no matter what happens in the markets. Can you show me an example in the private sector of this? Defined benefit pensions simply are obsolete anywhere but in the public sector. And they should be obsolete there also. Can you please give us an example of what government benefits teachers are not eligible for? And for the love of God, please do not trot out EI because teachers are not laid off in the summer. THEY ARE ON HOLIDAYS. So, what are they not eligible for? CPP, OAP, welfare? Finally, there is you statement "Who in their right mind who (sic) would want to teach right now?" Again, could you please provide facts that show that there is a shortage of teachers, which is what your statement implies. Last time I looked, there were dozens of fresh young teachers coming out of teacher school for every one available job. Are all of the shiny young minds not right? Are they mentally challenged when they graduate teacher school? If that is what you are saying, then I think you will be getting a severe scolding from one Young Socialist.

Hernaday, I have been reading your digressions with interest. You seem to have the sense that most teachers could take their education and skill sets to the private market and make obscene amounts of money and barely do any work, or at least just enough to keep their jobs. You have lightly tossed out the figure $200k/year as easily attainable. So, let's take a look at that. Stated as a proportion all Canadian workers, 1.9% make over 200k/year. (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil105a-eng.htm) Hmmm, you made it sound like those jobs were pretty much everywhere waiting to be plucked. OK, but that must mean that only a very small percentage of the Canadian workforce is as highly educated as our teachers, right? Well, not really. 26% of Canadian workers have a university degree. http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-012-x/99-012-x2011001-eng.cfm Well, you say, it must be very well documented that the private sector workers make a tremendous amount of wages more than their poor, slaving public sector brethren, right? Again, not so fast. If you take into account the total remuneration package, then public sector employees make substantially more than those in the private sector. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/public-sector-workers-paid-12-more-than-private-sector-counterparts-fraser-institute-report I like your pluck, but could you please move on from the idea that teachers could transfer their skills to the private sector and make bajillions more than they do at their current jobs. i think it is safe to say that most teachers are teachers because that is the job that was available to them once they completed their education. Now, if only an anti-whining course at the university level was made mandatory to these teachers.....

You seem to be getting Hydraboss and myself mixed up, but maybe it is late where you are. Not sure what question you are refering to, but if it is did it really happen, then that is easy. Yes. Telling the truth is always easier than lying because it is easier to remember later. No charge for the advice there old friend.

Ah yes, the traditional line of last defence for all teachers, their spouses and their apologists. So, let us count the holes in that argument: 1) We did not choose the Faculty of Education back when we were choosing our career paths, so it is very unlikely that we would do a teachers job. 2) On the other hand, teachers made the decision to put themselves in front of a class of children. Or maybe they do not explain that part of the job in teacher school. So, if those that chose to be in front of the class find it so difficult that they feel obliged to complain to each and every one of us insessintly, well mayhaps they chose poorly and should reconsider. 3) Who is to say that the average teacher could manage any job outside of the classroom. Every job comes with its prickly points and pretty much universally, everyone thinks that their lot in the work place is difficult. Big difference though is that the rest of us do not feel that it is necessary to stand high on the mountain and bemoan our working conditions. 4) Obviously you are ignoring the fact that a teacher only has to stand in front of that class for 5.5 hours or less for about 190 days per year. And that does not even take into account the "I do not feel like working today so video it is" days. 5) Finally, let us not forget that teachers are paid very handsomely with a benefits package that most could only dream of, so having to put up with the inconvenience of actual children in the class should is well compensated for.

As I stated, if you have kids or grandkids, talk to them. You may just learn something.

I am not aware that there is an exclusive list of videos that every teacher in every province can draw from. Pretty stupid comment.