Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

[dre]

The problem with the poster who initiated this thread, and similar thinking posters, is that they dumb down a topic that is actually quite complicated and nuanced.

Holy crap... SHADY just accused someone of dumbing down a topic ROFLMAO.

[On Guard for Thee]

Holy crap... SHADY just accused someone of dumbing down a topic ROFLMAO.

Get used to it.

[BC_chick]

You really want to see some sparks flying? Just wait until some atheist insists on the right to refuse to service theists.

They'd be the first screaming out discrimination based on religious beliefs. However, discrimination against gays or other religious groups - especially ones that start was I - are totally ok.

[dre]

They'd be the first screaming out discrimination based on religious beliefs. However, discrimination against gays or other religious groups - especially ones that start was I - are totally ok.

Its always funny when people so quick to whine and play the victim card are so eager to victimize others.

[sharkman]

Buy all those in Arizona who support this crap a ticket to Sochi. Putin will welcome them with open arms, well, OK, maybe not open arms, but proper Christian handshakes, well, maybe not Christian handshakes, well, OK with lot's of vodka. That way they can all get really drunk and celebrate their success. And the tea party will have lost a segment of their support, so it's a win/win for the live and let live version of humanity.

What? So it's okay if Russia outlaws gays? Nonsense.

[Michael Hardner]

It probably isn't hard to find. But just a heads up, when you start a topic, you're suppose to provide a reference. Read the forum rules if you're unaware.

I agree 100%.

[Black Dog]

By the way, that's not to say there isn't occasional cases where I believe it does violate the religious rights of believers to serve gays. I think there was a case out east here in Canada a few years back where a gay couple wanted to stay at a bed and breakfast - which was the home of the conservative Christian person running it. I can see they'd have a level of discomfort with gays fornicating around in their home.

There's a wide gap between personal discomfort and an actual violation of religious beliefs, though. It's not like they asked the proprietor to join in or anything.

[GostHacked]

Any business has the right to refuse me service for any reason. It's called private enterprise for a reason. If I open a shop and want to deny gays then that would be my problem. I may not be in business for much longer because of the stink it would cause.

HOWEVER, if a business denies you access to their business for any reason, why would anyone want to sue in order to do business with that entity? Make a note,walk away and put your money into businesses that accept every and all clientele. Bad press kills a business.

If the state does not like gays, then move to a state that does. Deny Arizona the ability to collect taxes from you that allow this kind of thing to happen. Once a state is at risk of losing some taxable income you will see the state's coffers dwindle. Money is power apparently. Don't give them money, and they have no power.

[Wilber]

Any business has the right to refuse me service for any reason. It's called private enterprise for a reason. If I open a shop and want to deny gays then that would be my problem. I may not be in business for much longer because of the stink it would cause.

No they don't. They have the right to expect certain behaviour when you are on their premises. What you do off of them is none of their business. Oh! you collect stamps. I hate stamp collectors. Bugger off.

[BubberMiley]

Any business has the right to refuse me service for any reason. It's called private enterprise for a reason.

Where were you during the civil rights movement? You could have had an alternative "I Have a Dream" speech.

[GostHacked]

Where were you during the civil rights movement? You could have had an alternative "I Have a Dream" speech.

Few decades before my time.

But this is how you get things done.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/arizona-pizzeria-asserts-its-right-to-refuse-service-to-anti-gay-politicians/

To me this is a very effective way to bring to light the situation.

Arizona legislators passed a bill to let business owners refuse service to gay people in a move they said is meant to protect religious freedom. But if it’s freedom they’re looking for, one Arizona pizzeria is doing them proud with a proud assertion of its own freedom to refuse service. The only twist? It’s not gay people they’re turning away. It’s… Arizona state legislators.

Yes, Rocco’s Little Chicago Pizzeria took a stand in the debate over the rights of small business and stood up for gay people’s rights whilst letting Arizona politicians know they should probably look elsewhere for their pizza.

[guyser]

Wow GH.

Could that Senator be anymore pious and sanctimonious? What an asshoile of the first degree. Arizona doesnt fail to suprise.....once again.

[Black Dog]

I only mention this because of the language choice:

Limbaugh: AZ governor being "buillied" by gay lobby

“She’s being bullied by the homosexual lobby in Arizona and elsewhere,” he said. “She’s being bullied by the nationwide drive-by media, she’s being bullied by certain elements of corporate America in order to advance the gay agenda. I guess in that circumstance bullying is admirable. In fact, this kind of bullying is honorable.”

Interestingly enough, Toronto's Doug Ford used similar language recently to defend another overweight drug user from homophobia charges:

In another pointed jab at the gay community, Doug Ford accused the mother of a gay son of “bullying” for accusing Rob Ford of homophobia.

I dunno if there's a memo about this that went out (maybe Shady has it), but it's pretty gross to see these guys co-opting the bullying term at a time when awareness of bullying (with LGBT individuals a frequently targeted group) is at such a high water mark.

[g_bambino]

I only mention this because of the language choice:

Limbaugh: AZ governor being "buillied" by gay lobby

Interestingly enough, Toronto's Doug Ford used similar language recently to defend another overweight drug user from homophobia charges:

In another pointed jab at the gay community, Doug Ford accused the mother of a gay son of “bullying” for accusing Rob Ford of homophobia.

I dunno if there's a memo about this that went out (maybe Shady has it), but it's pretty gross to see these guys co-opting the bullying term at a time when awareness of bullying (with LGBT individuals a frequently targeted group) is at such a high water mark.

I don't know that calling someone "homophobic" goes so far as to be bullying, but, the term is, besides often being a misnomer, presently a pretty damning slur thrown out far too easily and, thus, frequently. I don't know about the Governor's opinions, but Ford, as feeble as his thought process obviously is, hasn't expressed any belief or shown any action that unquestionably categorises him as a homophobe. Not that I know of, anyway. It therefore seems at least unfairly insulting to call him such a thing. Bullies do use, besides fists, insults in place of argument.

[g_bambino]

Just wondering whether the folks who somehow need this right require a signed statement that a customer isn't gay whenever they sell something on eBay or Craigslist.

Never mind online; how will any proprietor know someone self-identifies as gay? Many people who do don't fit the lilting and flamboyant (for men) and butch (for women) stereotype and some men who are flamboyant and women who are butch don't consider themselves to be gay. These legislators are trying to make a law based on concepts of human sexuality and identity that've been dumbed down to an unreal but bone-headedly simplistic level, which I assume is all they can understand.

[Wilber]

Never mind online; how will any proprietor know someone self-identifies as gay? Many people who do don't fit the lilting and flamboyant (for men) and butch (for women) stereotype and some men who are flamboyant and women who are butch don't consider themselves to be gay. These legislators are trying to make a law based on concepts of human sexuality and identity that've been dumbed down to an unreal but bone-headedly simplistic level, which I assume is all they can understand.

It's don't ask, don't tell Arizona style.

[Moonlight Graham]

This is one of the most horrible pieces of legislation I've ever seen in a modern liberal democracy, It's absolutely moronic, given that if you've a little bit of the Bible you'd figure out that even if Jesus disagreed with what gay people do in the bedroom he would still do carpentry for them and even hang out with them. He did hang out with prostitutes, I'm sure he'd have no problem serving gay people.

People were angry about Russia's anti-gay bill during the Olympics, but this is just as bad. Will people "boycott" Arizona is the Governor doesn't veto?

[Moonlight Graham]

If the state does not like gays, then move to a state that does. Deny Arizona the ability to collect taxes from you that allow this kind of thing to happen. Once a state is at risk of losing some taxable income you will see the state's coffers dwindle. Money is power apparently. Don't give them money, and they have no power.

Nobody should have to sell their house, find a new job, take their kids out of school, leave the rest of their family and friends, and essentially pick up their whole life and move to another state just because their state is filled with a high amount of bigots. Gays shouldn't have to accommodate bigots, bigots should have to accommodate gays.

[g_bambino]

It's don't ask, don't tell Arizona style.

But, that renders the law redundant, and that's no fun.

[g_bambino]

Gays shouldn't have to accommodate bigots, bigots should have to accommodate gays.

Actually, they have to accommodate each other.

(And, as a related aside, there are bigoted gays.)

[ed.: +]

Edited February 26, 2014 by g_bambino

[Wilber]

But, that renders the law redundant, and that's no fun.

It's a law that will allow discrimimation against anyone as long as it is claimed to be on religeous grounds, so I guess only

the religeous will be allowed to legaly discriminate in Arizona. Of course the so called religeous will be selective in how they excercise that discrimination. That's why the don't ask, don't tell comment.

[guyser]

Its already happening.

A cafe put up a sign that says 'we will serve anyone but Senators and elected officials"

Pretty crazy until one looks and sees .....oh yeah, Arizona

[Wilber]

Its already happening.

A cafe put up a sign that says 'we will serve anyone but Senators and elected officials"

Pretty crazy until one looks and sees .....oh yeah, Arizona

There is a lot of back pedaling going on by legislators and push back from big companies, Apple, American and Delta airlines, Marriott to name a few. Even the NFL is rethinking the Super Bowl if this goes ahead. Methinks this is a dead duck.

[guyser]

There is a lot of back pedaling going on by legislators and push back from big companies, Apple, American and Delta airlines, Marriott to name a few. Even the NFL is rethinking the Super Bowl if this goes ahead. Methinks this is a dead duck.

Hope you are right !

[Black Dog]

I don't know that calling someone "homophobic" goes so far as to be bullying, but, the term is, besides often being a misnomer, presently a pretty damning slur thrown out far too easily and, thus, frequently. I don't know about the Governor's opinions, but Ford, as feeble as his thought process obviously is, hasn't expressed any belief or shown any action that unquestionably categorises him as a homophobe. Not that I know of, anyway. It therefore seems at least unfairly insulting to call him such a thing. Bullies do use, besides fists, insults in place of argument.

There's a consistent pattern there with how Ford handles gay issues that suggests he either harbors homophobic beliefs or he wishes to be seen as harbouring such beliefs. IMO he's a homophobe of the "I'm not a homophobe, but..." variety (see also the "soem of my best friends are gay/black/whatever" guy)