Ukraine crisis

[-TSS-]

My suggestion is that instead of sanctioning Russia of bread we should first sanction Russia out of circus like suspend their membership of the IOC and any other international sporting organisations. Similarly, suspend from any international entertainment.

That kind of sanctions would not bite the civilian population, only piss them off.

[Argus]

Dumb Russian soldiers posting instangrams of themselves -- from Ukraine.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/01/a-russian-soldiers-instagram-posts-may-be-the-clearest-indication-of-moscows-involvement-in-east-ukraine/

[-TSS-]

If the west imposes sanctions on Russia then Russia responds in kind; at first no flying over Russian air-space when travelling to Asia. May hurt a lot of those who have business with China and Japan.

[Argus]

If the west imposes sanctions on Russia then Russia responds in kind; at first no flying over Russian air-space when travelling to Asia. May hurt a lot of those who have business with China and Japan.

So? And then the West refuses to allow Russian airliners to fly over their territory.

[Big Guy]

If the west imposes sanctions on Russia then Russia responds in kind; at first no flying over Russian air-space when travelling to Asia. May hurt a lot of those who have business with China and Japan.

Looks like you were correct. Putin has decided to play hardball.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/08/06/canada_slaps_fresh_sanctions_travel_bans_on_russia.html

I wonder how Canadian farmers will react to Harper undermining their business to stick his nose into some civil war in Europe? So we will now begin a stare down as this fragile economy becomes even more fragile.

Sometimes when you kick a guy with your bare feet it hurts you more than the guy you kicked.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Big Guy

[-TSS-]

I can imagine how the Canadian farmers must be feeling. The Ukraine-crisis is a huge issue in Europe but not really Canada's problem. After all, Canada is unlikely to be the next country Russia starts bullying and intimidating if they get away with Ukraine.

[Argus]

I can imagine how the Canadian farmers must be feeling. The Ukraine-crisis is a huge issue in Europe but not really Canada's problem. After all, Canada is unlikely to be the next country Russia starts bullying and intimidating if they get away with Ukraine.

So we should wait until that happens? I don't think so. Canada has always based its defense on alliances. We went to fight Germans in Europe so we wouldn't have to fight them in Canada.

Putin has 'directed' the Russian government to find ways to encourage Russian agriculture to make up the difference. LOL That's such a throwback to the Soviet Union cold war mentality. In some cities 60% of the food comes from abroad. There'll be empty shelves and lineups for food in Russian cities now, along with hefty price rises.

Nothing that will bother the billionaire kleptocrats in charge, of course.

[Boges]

About those sanctions. . .

They go both ways.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/russia-sanctions-vladimir-putin-retaliates-sanctions-canada-1.2728885

[Big Guy]

I can imagine how the Canadian farmers must be feeling. The Ukraine-crisis is a huge issue in Europe but not really Canada's problem. After all, Canada is unlikely to be the next country Russia starts bullying and intimidating if they get away with Ukraine.

I believe that there are three issues in the Russian sanctions;

1. The whole idea that sanctions will work to achieve an end. If the world spirals into another recession does that make it worthwhile.

2. Why Canada is involved in this civil war. What Canadian interests are involved in this conflict.

There are currently a number of wars or conflicts going on at this time in the world;

Ethnic violence in South Sudan South Sudanese Civil War

Africa South Sudan

Mexican Drug War

Syrian Civil War Asia

War in North-West Pakistan

Somali Civil War War

Islamist insurgency in Nigeria Africa

Iraqi insurgency

Egyptian Crisis

Central African Republic conflict

Afghan Civil War War in Afghanistan

Kashmir conflict

Balochistan conflict

Internal conflict in Burma

Insurgency in Northeast India

Colombian conflict

Maoist insurgency Asia

Moro insurgency in the Philippines

Xinjiang conflict Asia China

Al-Qaeda insurgency in Yemen Asia

War in Darfur Africa Sudan

Shia insurgency in Yemen Asia

Conflict in the Niger Delta Africa

South Thailand insurgency Asia

ADF insurgency Africa Democratic Republic of the Congo

Insurgency in the North Caucasus Europe Russia

Syrian Civil War spillover in Lebanon Asia

Post-civil war violence in Libya

Why has Canada decided that this civil war in Russia is more important than the others?

3. Why should only one sector of the economy suffer the results of this Harper initiative? I would assume that the Harper government will subsidize those farmers who lose their markets in Russia with all taxpayers money so all Canadians feel the same pain. He will, won't he?

[GostHacked]

Economic wars, trade wars, REAL war. This is where we are heading if we don't take out our leaders before they kill us all.

[Topaz]

I wouldn't be surprised if many Canadians thinks Harper`s foreign policies stink. They only thing this government does is`free trade`43 of them to date. I heard on the news that this sanction is really won`t affect Canada or Russia, so why do it? Could be all politics and the election next year, same with Israel, its all about election or THEM.

[Big Guy]

• cattle meat, fresh, chilled or frozen;
• pork, fresh, chilled or frozen;
• poultry and its subproducts, fresh, chilled or frozen;
• all salted, dried or smoked meats;
• fish, shellfish, scallops and other aquatic invertebrates;
• milk and dairy products;
• vegetables;
• fruits;
• nuts;
• sausage and similar meat products;
• cheese and similar products.

Economic wars, trade wars, REAL war. This is where we are heading if we don't take out our leaders before they kill us all.

So how much is this going to hurt the Canadian economy and what parts of the country will be hit?

Is this really worth getting involved in that civil war?

[GostHacked]

Is this really worth getting involved in that civil war?

It's not a civil war, not considering the players behind the different sides. West supporting the Ukraine government, which ever one that is now, and Russia backing the rebels. So it's just another proxy war in the ongoing.

And it's another war over control of resources.

And we are already involved. The moment Canada threw sanctions on Russia, this was inevitable.

[PIK]

It is for one yr and by then putin's people will be fed up with him.

[Big Guy]

It is for one yr and by then putin's people will be fed up with him.

Unfortunately you have the same opinion as the Harper leadership and I believe very mistaken.

The Russians are a proud people who have suffered humiliation over the last few years. Putin has hit a nationalistic nerve with the Olympics and the annexation of the Russian speaking Crimea. If sanctions are meant to encourage the Russian people to revolt and bring in a Western friendly government than it ain't gonna work.

These folks have gone through a Stalingrad and times of absolute starvation. These sanctions will only serve to encourage greater support of Putin. Us folks in the West really have no clue of what is happening there.

These latest anti-Putin efforts have only served to strengthen his leadership.

http://time.com/3088126/putins-popularity-hits-87-russia/

"A new poll released this week by the Levada Center reports that the Russian President currently enjoys an approval rating of 87% — a 4-point jump since a similar survey was completed in May, according to the Moscow Times.

Meanwhile in the U.S., where the economy is bouncing back and the White House has largely retreated from militaristic interventions abroad, President Barack Obama’s approval rating sagged to 40% this week — its lowest point to date."

I wonder how Harpers polls will be doing after the Russian sanctions start to put the screws to Canadian farmers.

Also, in one year it will be about the time for a federal election.

[ASIP]

The Russians are a proud people who have suffered humiliation over the last few years. Putin has hit a nationalistic nerve with the Olympics and the annexation of the Russian speaking Crimea. If sanctions are meant to encourage the Russian people to revolt and bring in a Western friendly government than it ain't gonna work.

These folks have gone through a Stalingrad and times of absolute starvation. These sanctions will only serve to encourage greater support of Putin. Us folks in the West really have no clue of what is happening there.

Relax, you are not at a Putin's fundraising meeting.

Putin is an aggressor. Russian people now are not the same they were 70 years ago. You can read their opinions. They don't agree with you.

And it seems you forget, Russia has claims in Arctic, just in Canada's backyard.

Doing business with Russia was a mistake in the first place. What we see now is the same pattern of Putin, only at a larger scale.

[eyeball]

About those sanctions. . .

They go both ways.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/russia-sanctions-vladimir-putin-retaliates-sanctions-canada-1.2728885

Yes, the scope of sanctions are to limited.

the effectiveness of the sanctions will taper as Russia seeks out products from countries like Brazil and China, and makes its own, to replace the ones it can't get from the West.

We all know what a network or terror is...networks of dictatorship should be treated the very same way for the very same reason.

But it's probably all too late as we should have been confronting these networks decades ago instead of, you know, running a good number of them. Now we'd just look like complete idiots on the global catwalk should we start pointing too many fingers...we'd probably run out of them.

Oh well, maybe things will be better after the interregnum.

[PIK]

There is a shortage of pork world wide and harper has been opening up new markets, things will be fine.

[Big Guy]

Relax, you are not at a Putin's fundraising meeting.

Putin is an aggressor. Russian people now are not the same they were 70 years ago. You can read their opinions. They don't agree with you.

And it seems you forget, Russia has claims in Arctic, just in Canada's backyard.

Doing business with Russia was a mistake in the first place. What we see now is the same pattern of Putin, only at a larger scale.

Well, you are probably correct. I should not be referencing that Russian controlled media empire called TIME magazine.

Not trading with countries that we do not agree with is a great idea. We should forget Russia - oh - and China too. Now those folks in Germany who are not putting the screws to Russia - we should ...

[alexmac]

Big Guy where do you get your information from ?

This just in "War in Ukraine"

Ukraine freedom fighters in Donetsk are facing tough opposition from the Ukraine Army .

But with the weapons factories in Lugansk area running at full capacity along with many millions of volenteers they will prevail over the Ukrainian invaders.

Russia having taken a peaceful role in the conflict has repeated pleas of restraint for the greater good and will not send military aid to the region.

They have further closed the border to people fleeing the war. President Putin will be sending a peace envoy to the area in conjunction with the UN peace accord to bring the hostilities to an end in the area. Putin has also called on Canada to do more to stabalize the region rather than sell arms to the Ukrainian government which was illegally replaced in a Canadain sponsored coupp over throwing Yanuconvict who is in Russia under guard for fear of North American murder attempts. Putin is pushing for all world leaders to follow his example of constraint and honesty.

This is what is in Russian media in Moscow and you are telling us you beleive that?

[ThePerfectPhilistine]

Ukraine and humanitarian aid. Philistine's perplexity

Why does Ukraine refuse from Russian humanitarian aid under the aegis of ICRC? There are millions of citizens suffering in that East Ukrainian region. I don't believe that all of them are vicious separatists. They are just people occurred to live in wrong time in wrong place. I've heard that there are diabetic kids suffering and dying without medicine in Donetsk. I've heard Horlovka and Luhansk lack of food and water. Why do those human loving Ukrainian authorities prohibit helping them? And does it really matter where this aid comes from?
I just see blood pictures of dead Ukrainians in various news reports every day. And every day they say about catastrophic situation in East Ukraine. And it looks like Poroshenko and his Gov. maintain consciously this situation so that those poor citizens would left their few possessions and ran away up hill and down dale. So that they could seize this land and do what they want there.
All in all I haven't heard about smallest attempt of negotiations. Instead lots of furious Ukrainian trolls on Ukrainian TV appeal to eliminate all settlements in Ukrainian East. Looks like Kiev wrote off the people of entire region. They aren't paid their set wages and pensions. They are refused in evacuation. They are refused even in mere humanitarian aid to keep body and soul together.
I really don't understand.

[Big Guy]

Big Guy where do you get your information from ?

...

Everyone posting opinions on this board have taken a position based on which surrogates they follow. My personal approach is to try to reference as many different sources as possible hoping that the cumulative information will be the closest to the facts. I also go out of my way to read sources which do not follow my particular philosophy so that I am not lulled into accepting only facts that I want to hear.

For the Middle East, I follow Al Jazerra. That media outlet had and has proven to be far more reliable and factual on coverage of the Afghanistan fiasco than any Western media. For me, Reuters has proven to be the best source of information on and about Europe.

As for Russia, the Russian Times, Pravda and RT are as pro-Russian as KievPost, CNN, ABC and CBS are anti-Russian.

I take stories from all with the same amount of scepticism.

My latest figures are from Time Magazine;

http://time.com/3088126/putins-popularity-hits-87-russia/

Edited August 8, 2014 by Big Guy

[GostHacked]

I like that approach Big Guy. Similar to what I do.

[Argus]

It is for one yr and by then putin's people will be fed up with him.

Unlikely. The Russian people seem to love it when their country can swing its elbows around and beat up on weaker nations, as long as it doesn't cost them anything personally. Putin is more popular than ever.

[Argus]

For the Middle East, I follow Al Jazerra. That media outlet had and has proven to be far more reliable and factual on coverage of the Afghanistan fiasco than any Western media.

Reliable and factual = agrees with Big guy more often than not.