Confederate Flag aka Rebel Flag aka Flag of St. Andrews

[Moonlight Graham]

The Confederate Flag represents a union of slave states who fought a civil war with the primary purpose of protecting their right to own slaves. Flying the flag, IMO, represents your support for slave-owning rights in those states, so how is that not racist? Even if you don't support slavery or even have any idea what the flag means, you can't remove from the flag what it represents and what it was designed for.

What is considered the “confederate flag” flown in modern times most resembles the battle flag for Northern Virgina and the 2^nd Confederate Naval Jack, but the same icon was used in the national flags of the Confederacy from May 1963 to the end of the war. People also don't call it "The Southerner Flag", it's called the "Confederate Flag" for a reason. The flag itself is a badass-looking flag that visually appeals to many (including myself, & the Dukes of Hazard), and its appealing visual design (compared to the other national confederate flags) is almost certainly why it’s chosen to be flown by southerners. I'm sure a lot of people fly it with much ignorance to what it is and why it was designed, but it still represents some screwed up stuff. I'd compare it to flying the Nazi flag. You can argue that most German soldiers who fought under the Nazi flag weren't Jew-killers and were "just doing their job", but that doesn't really change the symbolism and ideology behind the flag now does it?

If southerners want to fly a flag that represents them maybe they should pick one that doesn’t represent a war primarily fought to protect their right to own slaves. If you support the Confederacy you're pretty much a slave-supporting racist.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Moonlight Graham

[DogOnPorch]

Yep...those "dumb southerners" are so smart ! No wonder the "Confederate Flag" is so popular in rural Canada.

Like a lot of young headbangers, I think I had the Iron Maiden version of the flag.

[DogOnPorch]

If southerners want to fly a flag that represents them maybe they should pick one that doesn’t represent a war primarily fought to protect their right to own slaves.

How about Civil War re-creationists? Should they also use a non-historical flag? Or should they be banned all together?

[DogOnPorch]

Cotton and a snake? Touch Me Not !

Fifteenth Alabama, suh!

[bush_cheney2004]

If southerners want to fly a flag that represents them maybe they should pick one that doesn’t represent a war primarily fought to protect their right to own slaves.

And if "northerners" want to fly a flag that represents many wars to kill Native Americans, Mexicans, Spanish, Philippinos, intern American citizens, and discriminate against "visible minorities" then maybe they should just do it. Oh wait, they already do.

[bush_cheney2004]

I like this "Confederate Flag" gift item, which could just as well be said of Canadian snowbirds:

http://www.cafepress.com/+confederate-flag+gifts

Edited December 4, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Black Dog]

How about Civil War re-creationists? Should they also use a non-historical flag? Or should they be banned all together?

Who said anything at all about banning the flag?

[Shady]

If I only just called people names for no reason, you might have a point. But I don't and you don't. As per usual.

BTW you know what else is against forum rules? Trolling.

Doesn't matter if you think you have a reason. You can't call people names regardless. Learn the rules already.

[bush_cheney2004]

Doesn't matter if you think you have a reason. You can't call people names regardless. Learn the rules already.

Indeed....calling other members names is expressly prohibited.

[cybercoma]

Who said anything at all about banning the flag?

Nobody. But then it's easier to knock over strawmen than people's actually arguments.

[Guest Derek L]

I am from the northeast USA originally, but have lived and traveled in many parts of the U.S. Anybody with an objective understanding of history quickly realizes the significance of the Confederacy and its symbols. Such symbols should not be squelched for the sake of political correctness.

Curiously, some Canadians will refer to "Yanks" not realizing it really doesn't include the Land of Dixie.

That’s how I always thought about it……I always understood the flag, as referred to in the OP, was simply a Cross of St. Andrew (representative of the large Scots & Scots-Irish population of the South), with a star representing each secessionist State and the colors of the Stars and Bars……with the flag coming about as a reaction to Southern Artillery and naval units shelling their own team, mistaking the Stars & Bars for the Stars and Stripes……I never saw the big deal over it either way….

I have to admit though, after living in Texas, I was always kinda partial to this “rebel flag”:

[Black Dog]

That’s how I always thought about it……I always understood the flag, as referred to in the OP, was simply a Cross of St. Andrew (representative of the large Scots & Scots-Irish population of the South), with a star representing each secessionist State and the colors of the Stars and Bars……with the flag coming about as a reaction to Southern Artillery and naval units shelling their own team, mistaking the Stars & Bars for the Stars and Stripes……I never saw the big deal over it either way….

That much is flatly obvious. But don't assume your ignorance is universal.

I have to admit though, after living in Texas, I was always kinda partial to this “rebel flag”:

Cool dildo flag.

[GostHacked]

http://www.care2.com/causes/yes-the-confederate-flag-is-racist-and-heres-why.html

Even if the Confederates were racists, hasn’t the meaning of the symbol changed over time, to represent a sort of “country pride” or “Southern pride”?

No, the meaning of the symbol hasn’t changed. The most you can say is that the historically-ignorant have sometimes used the symbol without being fully cognizant of its implications. You can’t take pride in a defunct government whose raison d’etre was preserving slavery without tacitly endorsing a racist view or being remarkably clueless. Even Lynyrd Skynyrd has completely stopped using the flag on their albums and promotional materials, finally coming to terms with its implications (better late than never).

[GostHacked]

Indeed....calling other members names is expressly prohibited.

It's like the former smoker telling everyone else smoking is bad.

[Black Dog]

It's like the former smoker telling everyone else smoking is bad.

I love seeing the two biggest trolls on the board getting all up in the rule book.

[Black Dog]

http://www.care2.com/causes/yes-the-confederate-flag-is-racist-and-heres-why.html

But but but slavery was an economic system based on far more than race!

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth…

[GostHacked]

I love seeing the two biggest trolls on the board getting all up in the rule book.

Not me, I shed a tear for how sad their situations are. Embarrassed for them in a way.

And the economy thing is interesting. The right to hold slave labour to reduce costs of their businesses. Economics! Or am I interpreting this wrong?

[Black Dog]

And the economy thing is interesting. The right to hold slave labour to reduce costs of their businesses. Economics! Or am I interpreting this wrong?

By 1860 there were approximately 4,000,000 slaves in the United States, the second largest slave society--slave population--in the world. The only one larger was Russian serfdom. Brazil was close. But in 1860 American slaves, as a financial asset, were worth approximately three and a half billion dollars--that's just as property. Three and a half billion dollars was the net worth, roughly, of slaves in 1860. In today's dollars that would be approximately seventy-five billion dollars. In 1860 slaves as an asset were worth more than all of America's manufacturing, all of the railroads, all of the productive capacity of the United States put together. Slaves were the single largest, by far, financial asset of property in the entire American economy. The only thing worth more than the slaves in the American economy of the 1850s was the land itself, and no one can really put a dollar value on all of the land of North America.

Remember that next time someone tries to tell you the civil war was fought over money, not slaves.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Black Dog

[GostHacked]

Guess I was interpreting it correctly then.

[Black Dog]

Guess I was interpreting it correctly then.

Yeah but there's a crucial element missing. Slavery was a financial boon to the south, but slavery was only tolerated because of assumptions about the inferiority of blacks and their natural place in the world. Race is inextricable from the discussion; anyone who pretends different is apologizing for something.

[Shady]

It's like the former smoker telling everyone else smoking is bad.

It's doesn't make smoking any less bad.

[GostHacked]

I agree, Black Dog, no one has to like it, but they sure need to understand it.

[bush_cheney2004]

I love seeing the two biggest trolls on the board getting all up in the rule book.

You are still in violation of forum rules which prohibits calling other members names. Please try to stay on topic.

If you do not understand, please ask the mods for forum rules clarification.

[GostHacked]

You are still in violation of forum rules which prohibits calling other members names. Please try to stay on topic.

If you do not understand, please ask the mods for forum rules clarification.

Hey MODS, this is what a troll post looks like. Knowing the poster's history one would understand that.

[cybercoma]

It won't be long before this thread is locked, I suspect. I guess that's the new strategy when you're losing arguments. Derail the thread until Charles closes it.