Confederate Flag aka Rebel Flag aka Flag of St. Andrews

[Michael's input]

As we all know there was conflict between the south and north in America that caused The Civil War. 150 years later many people across America still fly the Confederate flag today.

The topic here is it racist to fly the flag?

Edited December 2, 2013 by Michael's input

[bush_cheney2004]

No, it is not any more "racist" to fly the flag or flags (there were several) of the Confederate States of America than it is to fly the Stars and Stripes or National Flag of Canada, as all manner of "human rights" violations occurred for all of them. The Confederate flag is an important artifact of U.S. history.

[cybercoma]

Completely harmless to anyone who's willing to overlook its symbolism and historical context.

[Bonam]

Not racist.

[Michael's input]

Completely harmless to anyone who's willing to overlook its symbolism and historical context.

What, may I ask, is the symbolism and historical context?

[bush_cheney2004]

Symbolism and historical context is well documented here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

[kimmy]

I'm somewhat baffled as to why many Canadian rednecks choose to identify themselves with the Confederate flag, however.

-k

[TimG]

I'm somewhat baffled as to why many Canadian rednecks choose to identify themselves with the Confederate flag

Dukes of Hazzard fans?

[Michael's input]

Symbolism and historical context is well documented here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

I thank you for your input of my reply to another user however it really didn't answer my question to her because of how she said it. Being from the South myself I do have knowledge of its real and true symbolism. The other user I believe made his/her statement that the symbolism and historical context of flag were of something degrading. I was merely asking what symbolism and historical context should be over looked.

Again thank you for your reply!

[Michael's input]

I'm somewhat baffled as to why many Canadian rednecks choose to identify themselves with the Confederate flag, however.

-k

What makes them rednecks?

[kimmy]

What makes them rednecks?

"Redneck" is a stereotype we're all familiar with, and many of us know people who fit that stereotype to a tee. Especially in my part of the country.

I have yet to meet any Canadian who displayed the Confederate flag that didn't fit the "redneck" stereotype to a tee.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

.....The other user I believe made his/her statement that the symbolism and historical context of flag were of something degrading. I was merely asking what symbolism and historical context should be over looked.

OK, and since you raise the point, there are some who associate the flag's symbolism and context with extreme groups (e.g. Nazis, KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, etc.). Such concerns must give way to the free speech and expression rights that they would attempt to deny those celebrating the Confederate flag. Hate speech laws may fly in Canada, but not in the country to the south where the war was fought.

[Michael's input]

"Redneck" is a stereotype we're all familiar with, and many of us know people who fit that stereotype to a tee. Especially in my part of the country.

I have yet to meet any Canadian who displayed the Confederate flag that didn't fit the "redneck" stereotype to a tee.

-k

If you don't mind me asking, in what stereotype group would you fall under?

[Michael's input]

OK, and since you raise the point, there are some who associate the flag's symbolism and context with extreme groups (e.g. Nazis, KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, etc.). Such concerns must give way to the free speech and expression rights that they would attempt to deny those celebrating the Confederate flag. Hate speech laws may fly in Canada, but not in the country to the south where the war was fought.

I know I ask a lot of questions but I love learning and finding out the ways culteralism.

I'm just wondering where you are from? You seem very iknowledgeable on Southern States and very intelligent.

[socialist]

If you don't mind me asking, in what stereotype group would you fall under?

I think Kimmy falls in the Betty Friedman feminist camp.

[bush_cheney2004]

I am from the northeast USA originally, but have lived and traveled in many parts of the U.S. Anybody with an objective understanding of history quickly realizes the significance of the Confederacy and its symbols. Such symbols should not be squelched for the sake of political correctness.

Curiously, some Canadians will refer to "Yanks" not realizing it really doesn't include the Land of Dixie.

Edited December 2, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[DogOnPorch]

I am from the northeast USA originally, but have lived and traveled in many parts of the U.S. Anybody with an objective understanding of history quickly realizes the significance of the Confederacy and its symbols. Such symbols should not be squelched for the sake of political correctness.

Curiously, some Canadians will refer to "Yanks" not realizing it really doesn't include the Land of Dixie.

And very few Reb units actually used that flag, anyways. It's the Army of Tennessee's flag, if I'm not mistaken.

Stars 'n Bars

[bush_cheney2004]

And very few Reb units actually used that flag, anyways. It's the Army of Tennessee's flag, if I'm not mistaken.

Right you are, as it was a far more complex scenario for confederate states and even groups in those states. The most commonly seen flag is actually a "battle flag" with very practical use on the battlefield as a way to distinguish opposing/aligned forces. As you well know, there is a huge following for the history and artifacts of what is considered to be the first "modern" war.

[DogOnPorch]

Agreement. The Rebs were a particularly colourful lot when it came to uniforms and flags. Each regiment, brigade, division, corp, etc with its own flag. Here's General Lee's (Army of Northern Virginia) actual flag...

The Union had a more standard approach.

Then there were the Zouaves that fought on both sides but wouldn't fight each other.

Talkin' of colourful...

Edited December 2, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

As we all know there was conflict between the south and north in America that caused The Civil War. 150 years later many people across America still fly the Confederate flag today.

The topic here is it racist to fly the flag?

The average Rebel soldier that fought under such a flag was a poor share cropper rather than a rich slave owner.

[Remiel]

I have mixed feelings on this. kimmy pretty much has her finger on one important point, it may not be so much that flying the flag makes you racist so much as people who do all the other things make one racist are much more highly correlated to flying the flag. On the other hand, if you ask whether flying the Nazi flag makes you a racist...

bc4 rightly points out that atrocities have been committed under the American and Canadian flags, but I am not sure that this has all the necessary support of a good counter-argument. Much, much more has been done under those flags that was not inherently bad. They have both a positive legacy and a negative one. The Nazi flag, on the other hand, has absolutely nothing good associated with it, and the Confederacy just did not last long enough for its flag to come to define much other than the bad.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The Union had a more standard approach.

Then there were the Zouaves that fought on both sides but wouldn't fight each other.

Most definitely....it was a very complex thing, splitting up even individual families. Arguably, and I think you have hinted at this as well, the U.S. actually emerged from the Civil War as a force to be reckoned with. It is no coincidence that the Dominion of Canada was "born" in 1867.

[DogOnPorch]

I have mixed feelings on this. kimmy pretty much has her finger on one important point, it may not be so much that flying the flag makes you racist so much as people who do all the other things make one racist are much more highly correlated to flying the flag. On the other hand, if you ask whether flying the Nazi flag makes you a racist...

bc4 rightly points out that atrocities have been committed under the American and Canadian flags, but I am not sure that this has all the necessary support of a good counter-argument. Much, much more has been done under those flags that was not inherently bad. They have both a positive legacy and a negative one. The Nazi flag, on the other hand, has absolutely nothing good associated with it, and the Confederacy just did not last long enough for its flag to come to define much other than the bad.

A great number of folks in states affected by the Civil War are re-creationist/reenactors rather than racists. One's great grandfather might in fact have been in the 33rd Virginia or the 20th Maine, for example.

[DogOnPorch]

Most definitely....it was a very complex thing, splitting up even individual families. Arguably, and I think you have hinted at this as well, the U.S. actually emerged from the Civil War as a force to be reckoned with. It is no coincidence that the Dominion of Canada was "born" in 1867.

A million troops w/ Springfield rifles w/ nuthin' to do 'cept Win the West...yup....agreement.

[bush_cheney2004]

bc4 rightly points out that atrocities have been committed under the American and Canadian flags, but I am not sure that this has all the necessary support of a good counter-argument. Much, much more has been done under those flags that was not inherently bad.

But in fact, such "atrocities" continued long after the Confederacy was gone, in both Canada and the U.S. The "victors" get to right history, which is all the more reason why one should be careful here.

The Nazi flag, on the other hand, has absolutely nothing good associated with it, and the Confederacy just did not last long enough for its flag to come to define much other than the bad.

This is not true, as many scientific and engineering achievements are associated with Nazism's rule in Germany. It's just that such things are not discussed out of political correctness. But it's hard to hide something like the impact of "Werner von Braun" and Nazi party support for his work.