Police and Natives protest Fracking, New Brunswick

[Argus]

If the governments fail to consult with them and accommodate their concerns and interests in uses of their traditional territories, then the Mi'kmaq's options for preventing irreversible damage are limited.

Natives don't get to disobey the laws just because bleeding heart liberals cry every time one of them is angry. Everyone has concerns and interests in the land use around them, not just natives, but if they blocked roads they'd be arrested immediately, and that should definitely happen to natives as well.

[Argus]

and if 'your' groundwater were to be affected/compromised... what would you do, after-the-fact? Once the deed was done... what would you do with your expressed "grave suspicions"?

First of all, they don't even know if there will be any development. They're simply looking to see what's there. If they find oil which is economic to develop then they can explain the process and the steps they're taking to ensure ground water isn't harmed. I would want to see a very hefty insurance arrangement so that if they did screw up the groundwater it cost them a fortune and required them to heavily compensate anyone affected. My ideal would be that they would lose every penny of profit and every penny they put into the project in that eventuality.

Ultimately, there are a lot of things going on in this country I don't like or approve of, but if we all grabbed guns and started attacking people over it we'd have a pretty damned poor excuse for a society.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Argus

[cybercoma]

Nobody attacked the cops, Argus. The cops are nothing more than the attack dogs of a government that is bought and paid for by the energy corps and in NB a provincial government owned by the Irvings.

Granted this article sympathizes with the protesters, but it does give a first-hand account of what happened a couple days ago. Perhaps the most important thing in the article that needs to be kept in mind is this:

Finally, while the mainstream media will go far to paint this as a “Native” issue, it is vital to remember that the blockade, until yesterday, had been supported by various allies from across the province. It is also key to note that an original 28 groups, representing New Brunswickers from all walks of life, had demanded an end to all shale gas exploration or development.

This blockade was never a Native issue, but it's being painted that way because it's easy for more racist Canadians to be dismissive of anything involving the First Nations.

[Topaz]

First of all, they don't even know if there will be any development. They're simply looking to see what's there. If they find oil which is economic to develop then they can explain the process and the steps they're taking to ensure ground water isn't harmed. I would want to see a very hefty insurance arrangement so that if they did screw up the groundwater it cost them a fortune and required them to heavily compensate anyone affected. My ideal would be that they would lose every penny of profit and every penny they put into the project in that eventuality.

Ultimately, there are a lot of things going on in this country I don't like or approve of, but if we all grabbed guns and started attacking people over it we'd have a pretty damned poor excuse for a society.

I'm against volence but try to put yourself in the First nation place. Talking doesn't do much for them and how many times have they been before the feds asking for help just for clean water? The closest they came of getting something from the feds was the kelowna accord and Harper's gang got rid of it. The young generation have had enough and there's also non-natived that are against fracking. Either these companies talk to these FN or expect this kind of reaction.

[scribblet]

Belonging to a particular group should not be a license to use bombs, firearms and knives. Has any one heard the Natives denying the bombs and rifles were theirs.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/18/shale-protesters-in-new-brunswick-had-bombs-firearms-and-other-weapons-rcmp/

[CPCFTW]

I think we've established beyond a reasonable doubt that the bombs and guns were from the polic. I mean, didn't you guys see the shoes in that youtube video posted earlier? They all had black boots!

So the question for this thread is how do we prevent these police provacateurs from infilitrating all our peaceful protests?

[scribblet]

Beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't think so. As the NB Premier said, burning police cars and defying court orders doesn't help their cause or public relations.

[Wilber]

Beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't think so. As the NB Premier said, burning police cars and defying court orders doesn't help their cause or public relations.

Of course it is. It's common knowledge that anyone wearing black boots is a police provocateur.

[scribblet]

Of course it is. It's common knowledge that anyone wearing black boots is a police provocateur.

Oh sure - right everyone knows that.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/molotov-cocktails-thrown-as-shale-gas-protesters-clash-with-rcmp-in-eastern-n-b-1.1500986

one of the comments

NOT a peaceful protest: 1) petrol bombs 2) weapons present including military grade rifles and bayonets 3) military grade ammunition for weapons 4) explosive devices 5) a large number of knives, hatchets, machetes, etc. The RCMP were correct to act. And I AM AN ABORIGINAL CANADIAN!

[PIK]

Nobody attacked the cops, Argus. The cops are nothing more than the attack dogs of a government that is bought and paid for by the energy corps and in NB a provincial government owned by the Irvings.

Granted this article sympathizes with the protesters, but it does give a first-hand account of what happened a couple days ago. Perhaps the most important thing in the article that needs to be kept in mind is this:

This blockade was never a Native issue, but it's being painted that way because it's easy for more racist Canadians to be dismissive of anything involving the First Nations.

I watched and it showed the cops talking to the natives when this one guy shoves the officer back and then he started acting silly ,jumping arounds like ali and took a swing at the cop.They are looking for trouble because it makes great news and gets the fools out there all riled up. The left has no credibility left on these matters.

[bush_cheney2004]

Right now, there is an interesting juxtaposition of this NB "energy" story and a derailed/burning/exploding petroleum/gas train outside of Edmonton on the CBC News web site. People are fleeing from their homes in Gainford.

http://www.cbc.ca/news

Edited October 19, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest]

Yeah, given today's derailment in Central Alberta, I'm wondering if I shouldn't pop along to those reserves in Northern BC that are holding up the Northern Gateway pipeline and toss a few Molotov Cocktails around. I'm sure they would understand.

[PIK]

It seems 85% of the residents are on welfare and maybe that is the reason. Do not want anyone coming around to offer us jobs. So does it really have anything to do with the possible fracking.

.http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/10/18/christie-blatchford-first-nation-band-behind-anti-fracking-protest-fights-for-85-welfare-status-quo/

[Argus]

Nobody attacked the cops, Argus. The cops are nothing more than the attack dogs of a government that is bought and paid for by the energy corps and in NB a provincial government owned by the Irvings.

Ah, I see, so when I'm looking at news footage of guys screaming into the faces of RCMP, and actually see them grabbing them and physically attacking them that's a figment of my imagination? Is that the position you're going to take?

Edited October 19, 2013 by Argus

[Argus]

I think we've established beyond a reasonable doubt that the bombs and guns were from the polic.

No, some paranoids have suggested that they believe that to be the case, against all logic and evidence, but no one could actually say we'd 'established' a damned thing.

[Argus]

It seems 85% of the residents are on welfare and maybe that is the reason. Do not want anyone coming around to offer us jobs. So does it really have anything to do with the possible fracking.

.http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/10/18/christie-blatchford-first-nation-band-behind-anti-fracking-protest-fights-for-85-welfare-status-quo/

Not only on welfare but unable to look after their own affairs, overspending the tens of millions the feds give them. Then they have the gall to scream about a potential economic winfall to the province, and possibly even to them and their neighbours! Blatchford doesn't pull any punches.

And of course we have the 'peaceful' natives attacking the media, as well. Par for the course at these sorts of things. It's like when they have numbers, and they feel the police won't go after them, they feel empowered to turn into vicious little bullies.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/19/anti-fracking-protesters-threaten-reporter-seize-news-vehicle-and-camera/

Edited October 19, 2013 by Argus

[jacee]

This blockade was never a Native issue, but it's being painted that way because it's easy for more racist Canadians to be dismissive of anything involving the First Nations.

Good point.

It appears, though, that they are the ones still at the blockade since the injunction ... or is that just more media bias?

I can't say that I'm upset with the police for clearing the camp of weapons, though their violent methods of arresting people are always very disturbing and overdone.

I do believe the molotov guy may have been a police provocateur providing an excuse for the police to raid the camp.

[cybercoma]

Just because Natives are there doesn't mean it's a Native issue. There are many New Brunswickers against fracking.

[jacee]

As the NB Premier said, burning police cars

Maybe not ... but do we know whether this was part of the police provocateur stunt to justify raiding the camp?

and defying court orders doesn't help their cause ...

If they are to succeed in preventing drilling, then defying the injunction is absolutely necessary.

Some lower court injunctions don't take proper account of Sec 35 constitutional aboriginal rights, and are overturned on appeal, and there may also be requirements for consultation with other local communities that haven't been met.

Edited October 20, 2013 by jacee

[Smallc]

Some lower court injunctions don't take proper account of Sec 35 constitutional aboriginal rights, and are overturned on appeal.

Well, they'd have to wait for that...as of now...

[jacee]

Well, they'd have to wait for that...as of now...

They are waiting ... at the blockade.

[Smallc]

They are waiting ... at the blockade.

I know...the law apparently means nothing.

[bleeding heart]

I watched and it showed the cops talking to the natives when this one guy shoves the officer back and then he started acting silly ,jumping arounds like ali and took a swing at the cop.They are looking for trouble because it makes great news and gets the fools out there all riled up. The left has no credibility left on these matters.

If you understood how these sorts of protests gather momentum and play out in NB, you wouldn't even bother going there. The Rexton/Kent County area particularly spawns a lot of protest activity.

And it has roughly nothing to do with "the Left."

In fact, many of these people are Conservatives.

So it's odd that you don't think "the right has no credibility."

[jacee]

I know...the law apparently means nothing.

Do you want fracking in your neighbourhood?

[Argus]

Maybe not ... but do we know whether this was part of the police provocateur stunt to justify raiding the camp?

They didn't NEED any justification. They have a court injunction to enforce.