Police and Natives protest Fracking, New Brunswick

[jacee]

So what if they are? Do we stop the world because some people are concerned?

Wouldn't you be?

[Smallc]

Wouldn't you be?

And what if I am? Does that mean after consultation, exploration still can't proceed?

[Accountability Now]

Read it again.

It doesn't say there was any consultation with First Nations.

Actually you need to read it again! Not the article...the actual injunction documentation posted. It outlines the consultation process that was taken on page 2.

[jacee]

Actually you need to read it again! Not the article...the actual injunction documentation posted. It outlines the consultation process that was taken on page 2.

You read it.

It was NOT a consultation process with the affected First Nation(s).

[jacee]

And what if I am? Does that mean after consultation, exploration still can't proceed?

That depends on the agreement that comes out of the consultation and accommodation process, of course.

We'd all be concerned if they were fracking near our homes.

I'll bet the frackers wouldn't allow it near their homes!

[Accountability Now]

You read it.

It was NOT a consultation process with the affected First Nation(s).

It says the consultation was with the New Brunswick First Nations. Page 2....in the sworn affidavit section. Who else was affected....Alberta First Nations?

[jacee]

It says the consultation was with the New Brunswick First Nations. Page 2....in the sworn affidavit section. Who else was affected....Alberta First Nations?

No it says on p 3 that they made a submission to the NB Aboriginal Affairs Secretariat - ie, government.

They did not consult with First Nations.

Edited October 29, 2013 by jacee

[Accountability Now]

No it says on p 3 that they made a submission to the NB Aboriginal Affairs Secretariat - ie, government.

They did not consult with First Nations.

And as stated earlier, the government then gave notice to the First nations which is all the consulation that is required. DId you forget about that part already? This is only the testing stage....not the actual fracking. As such no further consulation was required. They don't need consent from the First Nations to do testing. I could see the reason for enraged people if SWN had already started fracking with the level of consulation given but they haven't. As such it is quite clear that the hooligan antics of this mob put the cart way before this horse.

[cybercoma]

How about the mayors of the communities? If they don't want testing there, do they get a say?

[Accountability Now]

How about the mayors of the communities? If they don't want testing there, do they get a say?

Absolutely. They just don't get to burn police cars. Thats all.

[cybercoma]

I don't agree with the violence. However, the fact is there's mayors in NB who do t want this and they're being ignored. On reserves,the Chiefs are the mayors and we know they're ignored.

[TimG]

I don't agree with the violence. However, the fact is there's mayors in NB who do t want this and they're being ignored. On reserves,the Chiefs are the mayors and we know they're ignored.

We can't run a society where everyone is given a veto over development. If someone wants a project blocked then they will find they will not be listened to and this is a good thing. If someone has constructive suggestions that reduce the impact of the project then they should be listened to. I don't know whether the mayors complaints are the latter.

[Accountability Now]

I don't agree with the violence. However, the fact is there's mayors in NB who do t want this and they're being ignored. On reserves,the Chiefs are the mayors and we know they're ignored.

Its only testing to see what is there....that is it. This is stage one of many.....why should everyone have a voice when the conversation hasn't even started? Perhaps SWN won't even want to continue based on the testing. Again...let's get the cart behind the horse where it belongs.

Don't get me wrong....you can voice your opinion from the start but demanding that the testing stop through violence is a voice that should fall onto deaf ears. If SWN takes this to the next level then yes....mayors, chiefs, fireman, teachers....every resident should be heard. Again....it doesn't mean they will ge their way but definitely heard and consulted.

I also can't help to think what kind of voice would be coming from the First Nations if SWN was giving them a significant share of the profits. I wonder if this would be an 'environmental' issue anymore.

[eyeball]

I also can't help to think what kind of voice would be coming from the First Nations if SWN was giving them a significant share of the profits. I wonder if this would be an 'environmental' issue anymore.

I can't help but wonder how you'd feel if your mayor was bribed to rubber-stamp something you were otherwise following legal channels to oppose.

[Accountability Now]

I can't help but wonder how you'd feel if your mayor was bribed to rubber-stamp something you were otherwise following legal channels to oppose.

Who's following legal channels? Blocking roads and rioting is hardly legal channels.

More importantly....it like Cyber has already said....the mayors aren't rubber stamping any of this. They too are against it.

[cybercoma]

We can't run a society where everyone is given a veto over development. If someone wants a project blocked then they will find they will not be listened to and this is a good thing. If someone has constructive suggestions that reduce the impact of the project then they should be listened to. I don't know whether the mayors complaints are the latter.

I like your society. One where corporations get a veto over democratically elected mayors. Let's go with that.

[jacee]

And as stated earlier, the government then gave notice to the First nations which is all the consulation that is required.

Obviously the First Nation(s) disagreed with the opinion of the provincial government.

This is only the testing stage....not the actual fracking. As such no further consulation was required. They don't need consent from the First Nations to do testing. I could see the reason for enraged people if SWN had already started fracking with the level of consulation given but they haven't.

In the opinion of the provincial government ... which has a stake in pushing fracking ahead. That decision of the province, even for exploration, can be contested in court and I did read that the First Nation intends to do so.

Exploration is not benign. See my post above re effects of fracking 'exploration'.

As such it is quite clear that the hooligan antics of this mob put the cart way before this horse.

Ok here you go again with the 'mob' and 'hooligan' trash talk. We're done here. Edited October 29, 2013 by jacee

[Accountability Now]

Exploration is not benign. See my post above re effects of fracking 'exploration'.

You continually miss the point. They are not doing fracking exploration. They are doing seismic testing. This same testing is done by scientists to predict earthquakes but yet you don't see protests on that! Its not what has been done but what the FN percieve that is about to happen. I have said it umpteen times already that if it goes to step 2 THEN they will get a further voice on the matter. But of course I can't explain this to you as you are clearly hell bent on illogical concepts.

Ok here you go again with the 'mob' and 'hooligan' trash talk. We're done here.

Sure...put your head back in the sand Jacee. Good luck with that.

[Accountability Now]

I like your society. One where corporations get a veto over democratically elected mayors. Let's go with that.

Do you know how many of the local mayors are against it? I've heard a couple but I don't know what the total representation is like.

[TimG]

I like your society. One where corporations get a veto over democratically elected mayors. Let's go with that.

Yawn. Your rhetoric gets tiresome. I get it. Anyone who supports economic development is the puppet of a corporation. But what is really happening is senior governments who concern themselves with the big picture should have a priority over local nimbys spouting irrational nonsense and lies spread by luddites who want to see society go back to the stone age. Edited October 29, 2013 by TimG

[cybercoma]

You may want to check your own rhetoric before you go criticizing others for it.

[guyser]

Yawn. Your rhetoric gets tiresome. I get it.

Evidently...you dont....as in...

But what is really happening is senior governments who concern themselves with the big picture should have a priority over local nimbys spouting irrational nonsense and lies spread by luddites who want to see society go back to the stone age.

[Smallc]

I like your society. One where corporations get a veto over democratically elected mayors. Let's go with that.

This isn't in local jurisdiction really so...it's a provincial matter and should be dealt with as such.

[jacee]

... senior governments who concern themselves with the big picture should have a priority

And they certainly do.

And we are free to disagree.

... over local nimbys

spouting irrational nonsense

and lies spread by luddites

who want to see society

go back to the stone age.

Ahh ... slam poetry?

.

[TimG]

Evidently...you dont....as in...

I was deliberately giving cyber a taste of his own medicine. The attempt at sarcasm is lost in a forum post.