Ex-Nasa Scientist calls Canadian Conservatives 'Neanderthals.'

[Guest Kenneth]

When I say Conservatives I'm referring to Neo-Conservatives like the Canadian Conservative Party and their followers since they make up the majority of those who claim the title of Conservative in Canada.

Classical Conservatives are a near extinct breed, and you're more likely to encounter them in the Liberal party than any other party in Canada with people like Paul Martin.

I wouldn't say that neo-Conservatives "make of the majority" of the party's supporters.

[jacee]

I wouldn't say that neo-Conservatives "make of the majority" of the party's supporters.

All of them?

I know former PC's who are now Libs, and some are NDP'rs - hate the Libs.

True Progressive Conservatives don't like the HarperCons.

[Charon]

Jacee exactly. The PCs were classical conservatives, and they weren't a bad party. The Unite the Right movement hijacked the PCs by making them promises that they would retain some level of independence, but then assimilated them under the new conservative banner. The man behind it was Peter Mackay. I can't remember who it was who talked about that, but he was a former PC MP who like you say was really fed up with what happened.

[hitops]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/04/26/pol-promo-house-hansen-oliver.html

Due to the Canadian Conservatives' onslaught against scientists to support their anti-environmental policies for profit. This should not be surprising.

You mean somebody who's financial livelihood is totally dependent on government, rejects cutting in government spending?

Startling.

[Charon]

I'm sure you'd rather have scientists working for Monsanto, BP and other corporations dedicated to fouling the environment for profit.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Charon

[Guest Kenneth]

All of them?

I know former PC's who are now Libs, and some are NDP'rs - hate the Libs.

True Progressive Conservatives don't like the HarperCons.

Doesn't matter whether they like him or not, it's whether they feel that by being part of the CPC will allow them to restore the party to what it once was. Do you think joining the third-rate party in decline that is now the Liberals will help them accomplish anything except to wallow in political obscurity? Truly, the Liberals are done. The Reform Party had sense enough to rebrand itself several times in its quest to gain power - the Liberals simply cannot get over the fact that their once dominant party has been demolished. But I digress. The CPC is comprised of all sorts of people - red tories, neo-cons, western seperatists, paleoconservatives, monarchists, libertarians. It's a matter of debate which is most important at the moment, but it's fair to say that the neo-cons aren't the majority.

[Charon]

Wow don't wake up to the fact the Liberals are on the upswing with Trudeau.

Not that I like the Liberals particularly, but you're in for a pretty mean surprise.

[hitops]

I'm sure you'd rather have scientists working for Monsanto, BP and other corporations dedicated to fouling the environment for profit.

You mean scientists who's direct financial interest is served by promoting those companies would want to promote them?

You are bringing us some stunning findings.

[TimG]

You mean scientists who's direct financial interest is served by promoting those companies would want to promote them?

Are they any less biased than a scientist who needs to beg funding bodies for cash and often does it by producing research that meets the political objectives of the funding body? Edited April 29, 2013 by TimG

[Guest Kenneth]

Wow don't wake up to the fact the Liberals are on the upswing with Trudeau.

Not that I like the Liberals particularly, but you're in for a pretty mean surprise.

No, I think you're in for a pretty mean disappointment. It bespeaks a complete ignorance of politics to post what you did. The Liberals have surpassed the CPC briefly several times in recent years, twice after picking new leaders, and another time just before the 2008 election. So whatever became of Dion and Ignatieff, anyway? Oh yeah, that's why the Liberals have been destroyed and have chosen yet another leader.

[Charon]

Keep believing Dion and Ignatieff have the same draw as Trudeau.

[PIK]

All of them?

I know former PC's who are now Libs, and some are NDP'rs - hate the Libs.

True Progressive Conservatives don't like the HarperCons.

And us real harperites, we do not like progressives. They like to change history to fit them and it it is not broken, break it. That is the progressives.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

And us real harperites, we do not like progressives. They like to change history to fit them and it it is not broken, break it. That is the progressives.

Yeah, corporations built this world. We should be changing our laws to better suit them at the expense of citizens. That's not conservative... that's "progressive" corporatist.

That is what you support.

[PIK]

What would we have without them, Just watch and see what happens to BC if dix gets in. We all can't have a govermnet job.

Yeah, corporations built this world. We should be changing our laws to better suit them at the expense of citizens. That's not conservative... that's "progressive" corporatist.

That is what you support.

[eyeball]

What would we have without them, Just watch and see what happens to BC if dix gets in. We all can't have a govermnet job.

Some of us could have a little tree farm licence. We can't all be big multinational forest giants. Not saying Dix won't maintain the status quo but I'm just saying...

[gunrutz]

Bollux. If that's true how come Solarcity down in the states is installing panels for free and then charging people a lower rate for them?

This was the reality in the 19th century. Now the people of planet get their resources from a myriad variety of resources. Now why do Conservatives want us permanently frozen in the 19th century. Oh yeah because conservatives want us to return to feudalism with them as our feudal masters of the middle ages.

Speaking of Neanderthals and Science. Let's see what Stockwell Day Conservative Party Member and former Prime Ministerial candidate said about Science and who from 1978 to 1985, Day was assistant pastor and school administrator at the Bentley Christian Centre in Bentley, Alberta. His school taught the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum. A lunatic right wing evangelical brain washing program that shouldn't have seen the light of day in Canada.

"There is scientific proof that the world is about 6,000-years-old and that early man co-existed with dinosaurs. "

- Stockwell Day member of the Conservative Party of Canada, and former Prime Ministerial candidate from Alberta.

Ok, now post something relevant.

[gunrutz]

So hansen gets paid 1.6 million dollars from sources outside of NASA in the last 5 years of his employment, some of it coming from his efforts as an environmental activist, and now gets paid full time to do that job, but he is somehow more honorable than scientists paid by corporations, surely. He has made many outrageous statements like this one in the past, left wing eco fetishist are generally artsy types and fortunately for people like Hansen not very good at reality or math, as has been said up thread the idea that the oil sands is the end of our envoronment is utterly ludicrous, if you truly believe that you are simply too stupid for words. This is the same guy who predicted a .45 degree temperature increase over the the 10 years following 1988, he was only wrong by 400%, it rose .11 degrees, and hasnt changed at all since.

But anyway this isnt about agw, which probably exists to some extent, as usual with extremists this is about ideology, and an absolute desire to see the results that thier ideoloy demands regardless of the reality, the sensibilities of eco fetishists demand acknowledgement, after all, how could they not know best.

Here's another recent superbly reasonable thought from hansen, it could become so warm that lying naked in a hurricane we would still not be able to keep our bodies cool enough, our own trapped body heat will kill us, yea, that is surely a reasonable statement given the all of two thirds of a degree increase in temperature of the last 150 years. Thses sort of statements only harm the position of people who are concerned about agw, and will only detract from reasonable efforts to control it.

He does seem to feel that we need more nuclear, which I completely agree with, solar and wind are not viable, not without methods of mass storage of energy, there are some possibiliites but nothing that is out there and working right now, nuclear is the best back up to solar and wind, it is always available power. This is not the case with coal or natural gas power plants, it takes some time to spool them up. But, once again nuclear is bad, the eco fetishists have said so, so we can't have any more of that, instead we have to pretend that we don't need oil, and don't need reliable electricity, in truth we don't, a small percentage of us could survive from cradle to grave and live a good life off the land for about 40 years, just like we used to. Please put your money where you mouth is and lead us to our salvation, you could start by not spreading so much bs on your computer which like almost everything in our lives is made with energy derived from, transported by burning, and made of oil. But since your doing your new god's work for your new religion i presume you will give yourself a pass.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

What would we have without them, Just watch and see what happens to BC if dix gets in. We all can't have a govermnet job.

Without corporations?

Well... considering that we owe everything that we have to science and technology (Not religion, corporations, or politicians)... We'd probably work 15-25 hours a week, have products that were built to last... not break to increase repeat sales, and be a hell of a lot happier.

[TimG]

Well... considering that we owe everything that we have to science and technology (Not religion, corporations, or politicians)

Excuse me? We have technology because a corporation developed it into a money making product. Governments can be important in funding initial R&D but the end solutions which people can actually use are due entirely to corporations. The touch screen tablet computer is the most recent example - this revolution was entirely driven by Apple and the myriad of profit seeking corporations that develops apps for the platform.

[eyeball]

The touch screen tablet computer is the most recent example - this revolution was entirely driven by Apple and the myriad of profit seeking corporations that develops apps for the platform.

I tossed out 5 or 6 platforms in the first revolution. I've yet to be a repeat customer.

Will the Apples of the world get it during the next revolution?

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Excuse me? We have technology because a corporation developed it into a money making product. Governments can be important in funding initial R&D but the end solutions which people can actually use are due entirely to corporations. The touch screen tablet computer is the most recent example - this revolution was entirely driven by Apple and the myriad of profit seeking corporations that develops apps for the platform.

Actually, most technology that started the process was invented because someone was trying to make their life easier. Most of the people who actually spent time inventing things in the 20th century did not end up filthy rich. They did so to further science, to further knowledge, and to make a name for themselves.

The perversion that conservatives push, the idea that advancement only comes through greed, is just not a reality. Our economy pushes products that break sooner, and on purpose to ensure that people need to keep buying products.

ALSO - touch screen tablets have been around since before Apple's products. Apple is just better at convincing people that they need them.

Edited May 10, 2013 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Fletch 27]

I need to agree.. But TPK and TMD were driving forces behind what we know call "traditional" touch panels.. It was based on the LCD market diving in Japan and the need to sell "Glass"... Excess glass sold in 2'2inch equivalents..

Apple "marketed" the touch screen... other companies like Blackberry have perfected it...

Actually, most technology that started the process was invented because someone was trying to make their life easier. Most of the people who actually spent time inventing things in the 20th century did not end up filthy rich. They did so to further science, to further knowledge, and to make a name for themselves.

The perversion that conservatives push, the idea that advancement only comes through greed, is just not a reality. Our economy pushes products that break sooner, and on purpose to ensure that people need to keep buying products.

ALSO - touch screen tablets have been around since before Apple's products. Apple is just better at convincing people that they need them.

[TimG]

They did so to further science, to further knowledge, and to make a name for themselves.

Nonsense. A short list of things we take for granted today: PCs, mobile phones, internet. All exist today in their current form because of for profit companies. Without those companies none of these conveniences would exists.

ALSO - touch screen tablets have been around since before Apple's products. Apple is just better at convincing people that they need them.

Apple combined the touch screen with a 'for profit' app store. This made the iPhone useful to people (unlike previous touch screens which had a limited selection of software).

Technology that is not useful does not transform society.

Edited May 10, 2013 by TimG

[guyser]

. A short list of things we take for granted today: PCs, mobile phones, internet. All exist today in their current form because of for profit companies.

The US DND is a for profit company?

Who knew?

[TimG]

The US DND is a for profit company?

You confuse the original conception with the commercialization. It is the commercialization that changes society because it is the commercialization that makes the technology ubiquitous.

As I said, governments are invaluable when it comes to providing the basic R&D seeds and the right regulatory environment. But the social transformations require for profit companies.

Edited May 10, 2013 by TimG