Explosions at the Boston Marathon

[TimG]

What's the difference between the following headlines:

1) Bomb goes off killing 3 injuring 20

2) Driver loses control of car plunges into crowd killing 3 injuring 20.

Both are random events.

But 2) is considered fact of life - a risk that we choose to ignore every time we walk on a street.

Why can't we say the same for 1)

Terrorism only has an effect if people react with fear.

Edited April 16, 2013 by TimG

[Bonam]

What's the difference between the following headlines:

1) Bomb goes off killing 3 injuring 20

2) Driver loses control of car plunges into crowd killing 3 injuring 20.

Both are random events.

What? No, obviously both aren't random events. One is an accident, the other is done with malicious intent.

[TimG]

What? No, obviously both aren't random events. One is an accident, the other is done with malicious intent.

The chances of any particular person getting hurt by these events is purely random. The motivation of the person responsible is irrelevant.

[Sleipnir]

Here we go folks

Here's a link that's going to start this thread into a new twist.

http://www.local15tv.com/mostpopular/story/UM-Coach-Bomb-Sniffing-Dogs-Were-at-Start-Finish/BrirjAzFPUKKN8z6eSDJEA.cspx

I predict this is incident is going to get much more twisted in 5...4...3....2......

WWWTT

Theory conspriacist are going to have a field day with this one.

[Signals.Cpl]

The chances of any particular person getting hurt by these events is purely random. The motivation of the person responsible is irrelevant.

The difference is that one you can get hit anywhere and anytime, sitting in your office on the 30th floor, or the basement 5 floors down and it means you are not safe anywhere because no matter how small or irrelevant the target is it still is a target whereas the other is an accident that does not take away your feeling of safety no matter where you are. One is an accident and the other is someone wanting you dead, trying to kill you... I take that bus or walk down that street or buy coffee in that store everyday when that location is targeted it feels like you are targeted. Accidents happen v. someone actively trying to kill you...

[Bonam]

The chances of any particular person getting hurt by these events is purely random. The motivation of the person responsible is irrelevant.

The chance of being a victim is random, yes, but the event itself is not random if it is purposefully done. We should take steps to prevent and deter such incidents. And for that matter, we also do whatever is reasonable to prevent and minimize random incidents resulting in death, as well. In your example of car crashes, note that we spend billions of dollars on enhancing car and infrastructure safety to minimize loss of life through such accidents.

[BC_chick]

The chance of being a victim is random, yes, but the event itself is not random if it is purposefully done. We should take steps to prevent and deter such incidents. And for that matter, we also do whatever is reasonable to prevent and minimize random incidents resulting in death, as well. In your example of car crashes, note that we spend billions of dollars on enhancing car and infrastructure safety to minimize loss of life through such accidents.

Of course, nobody would dispute that prevention is important for both types of deaths (as you suggest), but I think Tim is touching on something different.

Statistically you have a much higher chance of being killed by a car, yet you do not fear getting into your car. I think the point he's making is that people need to live life with a similar approach for these types of tragedies or else the terrorists win.

ETA - I think the last sentence of his post pretty much summed it up:

Terrorism only has an effect if people react with fear.

Edited April 16, 2013 by BC_chick

[Hudson Jones]

Here is another deadly attack on civilians today that doesn't deserve our attention and outrage.

US bomb kills 30 at Afghan wedding

• At least 30 members of an Afghan wedding party were killed and many more wounded when a U.S. plane bombed a village in the central province of Uruzgan today, Afghan officials and residents said.

The bombing happened today in a village in the rugged, mountainous region 175 km (105 miles) northeast of the southern city of Kandahar, residents said.

They told the local Pashtu service of the BBC at least 120 people had been either killed or wounded.

A Defence Ministry official said celebrants were firing into the air, as is traditional in Pashtun weddings.

"There was no-one to help last night," resident Abdul Saboor told the BBC. "We managed to transfer some of the wounded to Kandahar in the morning. Some of the foreigners' choppers also came to help.

"There are no Taliban or al Qaeda or Arabs here. These people were all civilians, women and children."

Link

[Guest American Woman]

What's the difference between the following headlines:

1) Bomb goes off killing 3 injuring 20

2) Driver loses control of car plunges into crowd killing 3 injuring 20.

Both are random events.

But 2) is considered fact of life - a risk that we choose to ignore every time we walk on a street.

Why can't we say the same for 1)

First of all, it's not all about fear. Speaking for myself, it's not about fear at all. It's about outrage and preventing it from happening again. Secondly, random acts are different from deliberate acts. It's the intent that angers us and drives us to find those responsible - so they can't do it again.

If you don't understand the difference between deaths/injuries as a result a deliberate act and an accident, I can only assume that you would be no more concerned about a murderer or child molester living in your neighborhood, attacking and killing random people/children, than you would be about the possibility of getting in a car accident or a child getting hit by a car walking to school. Which would be, quite frankly, mind boggling.

Terrorism only has an effect if people react with fear.

I suggest you tell that to the people who lost loved ones and the people who were injured/lost limbs - and those who know them. Like the mother whose two sons each lost a leg, for example. They just might disagree with you. They might think that they were affected.

Edited April 16, 2013 by American Woman

[TimG]

I suggest you tell that to the people who lost loved ones and the people who were injured/lost limbs - and those who know them. Like the mother whose two sons each lost a leg, for example. They just might disagree with you. They might think that they were affected.

Why should I feel any less for someone who died at the hands of a drunk driver? Seems to me that you saying that death is more tragic if it is a result of a terrorist attack. I completely disagree with that premise. Death is a tragedy but by obsessing about high profile deaths like this we are 'feeding the trolls' and making future attacks more likely.

If we really want to prevent these kinds of attacks then we need to stop reacting to them.

Edited April 16, 2013 by TimG

[WWWTT]

Pure coincidence or suspicious?

I would say coincidence.

Probably a maintenance worker or a custodian.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Theory conspriacist are going to have a field day with this one.

Yes but not at the same magnitude as 9/11.

I haven't heard much about the other bomb/fire in New york.

Perhaps they were not related,so this one incident is starting to get smaller by the hour (and rightfully so)

I predict that in another week or two it will be significantly reduced in air time.(at least in Canada)

WWWTT

[Michael Hardner]

Here is another deadly attack on civilians today that doesn't deserve our attention and outrage.[/size]

Today meaning July 1, 2002 ?

I get the juxtaposition of these types of "incidents" with acts of domestic terrorism, but by posting these things you also imply that you are above subjectivity yourself.

I think it's entirely acceptable to care more about such events, close to home. But if your intention is just to make people think a bit, then you have been successful.

[Michael Hardner]

I would say coincidence.

Probably a maintenance worker or a custodian.

WWWTT

The conspiracy trolls are rising already - gobbling up all the human misery and turning it into more attention (and in the case of Alex Jones, money) for themselves.

Somebody was on the roof. Who cares ?

[WWWTT]

Here's a link to some opinion that I am not sure is completely true.

https://www.facebook.com/TruthForChange/posts/1789767741163942

But I believe that you can probably pick any random week and find enough cases to support some claim.

But on the other hand?

WWWTT

[GostHacked]

This video shows something weird. Have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2bYdYQfBE8

[WWWTT]

My spidy senses are telling me that if this bombing was ever found to be foreign terrorism(middle east in particular),pretty much nothing would ever happen except for beefed up security in the US and at their borders

This is why

WARNING!THE FOLLOWING LINK CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES!

http://earthfirstnews.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/the-boston-marathon-and-u-s-drone-attacks-a-tale-of-two-terrorisms/

WWWTT

[Rue]

This video shows something weird. Have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2bYdYQfBE8

Doesn't show anything wierd at alljust that the camera angle changed. The splatter pattern did not change just the camera angle.

[Rue]

What's the difference between the following headlines:

1) Bomb goes off killing 3 injuring 20

2) Driver loses control of car plunges into crowd killing 3 injuring 20.

Both are random events.

But 2) is considered fact of life - a risk that we choose to ignore every time we walk on a street.

Why can't we say the same for 1)

Terrorism only has an effect if people react with fear.

The psychology of terrorism is to achieve fear through the following:

1-have people feel helpless to stop acts of violence

2-present the violence as being able to happen anywhere at anytime

3-maximize the negative impact by assuring it gets maximum media exposure.

The media's playing back of the terrorist act feeds right into the hands of terrorists as it unintentionally assures anyone who did not see the act

see it as well.

The act itself is planned to appeal to these senses:

1-sight

2-sound

3-smell.

If any of a combo of the above senses are accurated they stay in the memory transfered from short to long term and magnify in negative impact each time the brain replays the event.

Smell is a powerful memory trigger months of years after the act.

In this latest terrorist act, although it is far too early to speculate because of the colouring of the smoke and the nature of the bomb it looks home-made certainly not the more sophisticated ones.

It could have been detonated by a cell phone.

The splatter pattern of bodies and victims will assist in identifying the impact blast sites but its still like looking for a needle in a hay stack.

What one hopes is someone saw someone in a crowd or saw something out of place and in the thousands of citizen reports that come in the authorities will be able to sift through and find such information to help them search for the originators of the act.

Now we can have all kinds of conspiracy theorists speculate and the to most obvious suspects after the US government-illuminatists of course will be Middle East terrorists or North Koreans.

I wonder if the fact it was on Patriot's day and the fact it was so near other right wing bombings in the US might tip it off as some extreme right wing

American organization. I mean anything is possible. If the authorities get leads they obviously will have to decide whether they can share them and

this will fuel the conspiracy buffs.

Terrorism has a ripple effect. The immediate ripple is the immediate victims. Then the by-standers, then the circle moves outward to society as a whole as the media generates more and more information.

You can be sure the people who organized this knew they would get maximum media impact by having it at the finish line.

Consider this random acts on civilians as opposed to government buildings is unusual for certain specific extremist political organizations using terrorism who will only target civilians if they are collateral damage from an attack on a government site.

Now, certain extreme right wing groups go for gov. buildings. So it makes me wonder, could it be some nut job left over from Waco, Texas seeking revenge. If it was a usual Middle East suspect its possible of course but would they simply zero in on civilians?

Patriot Day would appear to trigger right wing extremists mad at the US for what it considers unpatriotic acts.

Would Middle East terrorists see significance on this day or would they prefer a day like July 4?

Hard to say. What will happen those is you can be sure the FBI, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire-arms, Homeland security, Teasury, Secret Service, US Armed Forces intelligence divisions, local and state police forces, will all be mobilized and someone will get answers.

My hats off to the brave people who responded with courage and immediacy in moving in to help victims.

[GostHacked]

Doesn't show anything wierd at alljust that the camera angle changed. The splatter pattern did not change just the camera angle.

It's one angle.

[Pliny]

It's one angle.

If you look closely just before the person walks in front of the focus area you will see that someone pulls the debris away.

Nothing there really.

[eyeball]

It's one angle.

Look at it carefully and you'll see the bloodied object is just being pulled out of view just a moment before the spot it was sitting in is obscured.

[Rue]

It's one angle.

It changed a bit. Slightly. The space was there before. Look again. Also I agree some of the debris looks to have been moved. Play it back frame by frame and tell me if you think the angle gets a bit changed. That is why I am saying that. It looks to change a but from frame to frame over a sequence of 10 frames. I also detected some collateral movement behind the official.

[Rue]

Look at it carefully and you'll see the bloodied object is just being pulled out of view just a moment before the spot it was sitting in is obscured.

When you look frame by frame it looks as well like the camera angle changes a bit. When I played it back several times without going frame by frame I think I see what you do.

[Pliny]

There should be a law making these IED bombs illegal. It would be a step in the right direction. I know that would just keep them out of the hands of law-abiding citizens but think about it, who really needs an IED bomb?

Wha...they are already illegal?

Does anyone think Bill Ayers has anything to do with it?