Iraq Invasion - America's Shame... 10 years on

[DogOnPorch]

Got it...sorry...I was distracted by Lara Logan in a tight purple dress on 60 Minutes.

Arf. Heh.

[waldo]

guys, guys... can you see the Iranian civilian planes flying overhead the "fortress embassy"... on their way to Syria, delivering weapons? Sort of makes you wonder what the last 10 years were all about, hey?

[DogOnPorch]

guys, guys... can you see the Iranian civilian planes flying overhead the "fortress embassy"... on their way to Syria, delivering weapons? Sort of makes you wonder what the last 10 years were all about, hey?

Boom.

[Guest Derek L]

what lies? No boots on the ground... ok, ok, perhaps a few guys (30 or so) meeting pre-existing exchange commitments. Thanks to the lil' guy from Shawinigan! I understand there were also a few ships doing "escort duty"... perhaps an officer or two similarly doing exchange duty. I believe some airborne guys doing surveillance Hey, does that cover it? Again, we were not willing! Don't try and shift your blame/shame our way!

During the initial months of the invasion, 1/3rd of our fleet (Four Frigates and a Destroyer) was in the Persian Gulf & Arabian Sea, plus the regular deployments prior and after under the auspices of Operation Apollo…… Not “escorting” (That was the first Persian Excursion) but boarding and searching vessels…………The ships crews & AirDet would tabulate over 1200 personal………Plus the surveillance aircraft and their ground crews, logistics personal at Camp Mirage (that aided Australian and New Zealand forces with logistical support during the Iraq invasion) and of course the personal on exchange programs……..One of which was our former CDS who was a deputy Divisional Commander of III Corps and the multinational Corps…………..

Hence thecorrect assertion that Canada contributed more indiscreetly then many coalition partners did openly…….

[Sleipnir]

It's a fortress.

Which makes it even a bigger target (think rocket launcher, airstrike, carbomb, inside job, etc).

Edited March 18, 2013 by Sleipnir

[bush_cheney2004]

Which makes it even a bigger target (think rocket launcher, airstrike, carbomb, inside job, etc).

Bring it....

[Guest Derek L]

Bring it....

........And let the Centurion take care of it?

http://youtu.be/4uQ8UjjLeZE

[ReeferMadness]

in light of this weeks 10 year anniversary, even if you choose to ignore the Neocon lies, the illegal war status, the coincident dropped ball in Afghanistan, the devastation of Iraq, the loss of life (4400+ U.S. troops, 320 "coalition of the willing" troops, 16,000 Iraqi military/police, 100,000+ Iraqi civilians***), the thousands of life-impacting wounded, the direct and ongoing monetary costs to both Iraq and the U.S. ($2 trillion+ to the U.S.), the corruption, the negative world-wide reputation hit to the United States, the reinforcement of cowboy diplomacy, etc...... the best that can be said is, the Arab Spring has truly arrived in Iraq! Oh, wait... the government the Iraqi people are increasingly rising up against, is the puppet government installed by the U.S.! --- the same government forging alliances between the majority/ruling Shiites and the predominantly Shiite Iran. Iran thanks you for your service!!!

(*** depending on 'official' versus 'other sources', the direct impact to Iraq rests with claims that more than 1.5 million Iraqi have been killed, 800,000 civilians are missing, 4 million were forced to exile outside Iraq, with another 2 million forced to relocate internally within Iraq).

nothing says it more than to read (the real) decider in chief Dick Cheney's recent assessment where he gives a passing nod to the "shock & awe" of preemptive strike (aka the "Cheney "Bush Doctrine"):

.

Waldo, thanks for bringing this forward. You're right - it's something that should shame the US and their "coalition of those countries that had their arms twisted".

I think you and punked are wasting your time debating with b_c and AW. It's pretty clear that they fall into that class of Americans that seem to

believe it's their God-given right to kill however many poor, dark-skinned people they want(I wonder if the have a constitutional amendment for this, like the right to bear arms), providing their President can come up with some way of selling it to their gullible media. Who, of course will sell it to an apathetic public.

Over on the Nixon-in-Vietnam thread, I asked b_c whether it bothered him that little kids spent their last moments screaming in pain after

American warplanes dropped napalm indiscriminately in Vietnam. He said he was OK with that so I'm pretty sure that a couple of million dead

Iraqis won't weigh heavy on his conscience. I'm guessing both of them will continue to point the finger at all of the countries who were pressured into joining Bush & Blair.

[ReeferMadness]

........And let the Centurion take care of it?

http://youtu.be/4uQ8UjjLeZE

Appreciate the war porn, Derek. You and b_c must really have fun together.

[eyeball]

Canada doesn't have any intel capabilities? - Is that "Canada's Shame?" Because after all, what kind of an excuse is it for a country to involve itself in war because 'it didn't know any better?'

It's a misplaced non-excuse. The fact is Canadians DID know better than to join the post 9/11 vengeance-binge.

[Guest Derek L]

Appreciate the war porn, Derek. You and b_c must really have fun together.

I'm glad, fore many don't appreciate the defenses against ballistic threats:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/14/pentagon-to-beef-up-missile-defense-in-response-to-north-korean-threat-sources/

The Pentagon is beefing up the nation’s missile defense in the wake of provocative nuclear threats from North Korea and is set to deploy 14 additional ground-based interceptors at missile silos in Alaska and California, congressional and U.S. officials tell Fox News.

The extra interceptors on the West Coast, designed to counter attacks from an intercontinental ballistic missile, would bring the total number of interceptors to 44, a plan originally proposed by the Bush administration. President Obama stopped the deployment of the additional interceptors when he took office in 2009, leaving the total number at 30.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's a misplaced non-excuse. The fact is Canadians DID know better than to join the post 9/11 vengeance-binge.

Then why were Canadian Forces deployed to Afgannerstan before Iraq was ever invaded?

Edited March 18, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

We had to fight, for the right, to parrrrty!

[DogOnPorch]

A MIRV loaded with with several 1mt devices and you'll be a-prayin' for that working ABM defense. But, hey...that's unpossible...as Ralph Wiggum might say.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/18/opinion/iraq-war-hans-blix/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

I headed the U.N. inspections in Iraq at the time of the war 10 years ago. Today, I look again at the reasons why this terrible mistake -- and violation of the U.N. charter -- took place and explore if any lessons be drawn. Here are my thoughts.

After the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, George W. Bush's administration felt a need to let the weight and wrath of the world's only superpower fall on more evil actors than just Afghanistan's Taliban regime.

No target could have seemed more worthy of being crushed than Iraq's brutal dictator, Saddam Hussein. Sadly, however, the elimination of this tyrant was perhaps the only positive result of the war.

The war aimed to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, but there weren't any.

The war aimed to eliminate al Qaeda in Iraq, but the terrorist group didn't exist in the country until after the invasion.

The war aimed to make Iraq a model democracy based on law, but it replaced tyranny with anarchy and led America to practices that violated the laws of war.

The war aimed to transform Iraq to a friendly base for U.S. troops capable to act, if needed, against Iran -- but instead it gave Iran a new ally in Baghdad.

[Sleipnir]

Then why were Canadian Forces deployed to Afghanistan before Iraq was ever invaded?

I believe because of the esolution 1368 at the United Nation Security Council the day of 9/11.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Sleipnir

[The_Squid]

I can't believe that there are Canadians who are hyper-aware of everything the U.S. does who didn't know that. Perhaps a little more concern regarding their own country is in order?

Did you watch the video in the OP? What did you think?

[waldo]

Waldo, thanks for bringing this forward. You're right - it's something that should shame the US and their "coalition of those countries that had their arms twisted".

I think you and punked are wasting your time debating with b_c and AW. It's pretty clear that they fall into that class of Americans that seem to

believe it's their God-given right to kill however many poor, dark-skinned people they want(I wonder if the have a constitutional amendment for this, like the right to bear arms), providing their President can come up with some way of selling it to their gullible media. Who, of course will sell it to an apathetic public.

Over on the Nixon-in-Vietnam thread, I asked b_c whether it bothered him that little kids spent their last moments screaming in pain after American warplanes dropped napalm indiscriminately in Vietnam. He said he was OK with that so I'm pretty sure that a couple of million dead Iraqis won't weigh heavy on his conscience. I'm guessing both of them will continue to point the finger at all of the countries who were pressured into joining Bush & Blair.

clearly, the recent days self-reflection coming forward throughout the American media impresses, for many Americans, the waste, the damage, and the failures of the Iraq invasion. There will always be those types who could give a damn... or those who attempt to excuse and rationalize the lies and actions. A sobering thought is that, for all intents and purposes, many Americans didn't have a grasp or realization their country was even 'at war' - they were divorced from it particularly in regards the Bushism, "We're fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here!"

many Americans view the Iraq war in terms of regret, remorse... and anger. They recognize what was lost... for little if any gain. Even if they choose to blindly ignore the world destabilizing result and the devastation wrought upon the sovereign nation of Iraq, looking inward, they can't ignore the impact internally; whether that manifests in regards to long-term costs associated with actually paying for the war, or the longer-term costs for caring for the war wounded.

[GostHacked]

Good thing a huge base in Iraq will help prevent the next terror attack within the USA.

[bush_cheney2004]

That Canadian or American appeasers would expect "shame" to be the order of the day, we find that this is not the case. Instead, America readies itself for the next war. For this is how America came to be, and continued on to become the world's lone superpower.

[GostHacked]

That Canadian or American appeasers would expect "shame" to be the order of the day, we find that this is not the case. Instead, America readies itself for the next war. For this is how America came to be, and continued on to become the world's lone superpower.

The new World Trade Center will be ready just in time for another attack.

[Moonlight Graham]

I've written much about the B.S. that was the Iraq invasion. The B.S. surrounding the war spread by the Bush admin (and others) remains one of the greatest/most immoral/most dangerous series of lies perpetrated against the global populace and their goverments, including the American public, in modern history. As I've said before, one of the greatest tragedies of the war and its lies are that none of the key perpetrators within the US (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice etc.) were not legally held accountable for their actions whatsoever, and no measures have been put in place within US law to make sure something like this never happens again. To top it off, the braindead mass that is the American public (cue hyper-sensitive MLW apologists) even re-elected this group of crooked morons...not to mention failed to demand these crooks be held accountable. Now it's like it never even happened, minus the millions of Iraqis with dead relatives killed by the Coalition of the Stupid.

[bush_cheney2004]

... As I've said before, one of the greatest tragedies of the war and its lies are that none of the key perpetrators within the US (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice etc.) were not legally held accountable for their actions whatsoever, and no measures have been put in place within US law to make sure something like this never happens again.

Correct, because all of their actions were perfectly legal, and if the United States decides to do it again, it will be perfectly legal as well. In fact, the U.S. passed legislation to explicitly authorize war, something that Canada's PM and Parliament did not do for its "illegal" bombing campaign in 1999.

[ReeferMadness]

This is timely:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/iraq-war-10-years-later-worth-141829429.html

• More than 70 percent of those who died of direct war violence in Iraq have been civilians – an estimated 134,000. This number does not account for indirect deaths due yo increased vulnerability to disease or injury as a result of war-degraded conditions. That number is estimated to be several times higher.

70 percent of direct casualties were civilians. It puts the lie to the image of high tech war with pin-point munitions. Instead, it's the same old thing. Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

Terrorism in Iraq increased dramatically as a result of the invasion and tactics and fighters were exported to Syria and other neighboring countries.

Well done.

The $60 billion spent on reconstruction for Iraq has not gone to rebuilding infrastructure such as roads, health care, and water treatment systems, but primarily to the military and police. The Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction has found massive fraud, waste, and abuse of reconstruction funds.

I read a book written by someone who ran one of the provincial reconstruction teams. He described an absolute gong show, with money being thrown around by unqualified and incompetent people hired by the state department. After the war destroyed civil authority, local power resided in the Iraqi equivalent of local mob bosses. Nothing could be done without them and much of the money that was designated for economic development wound up in their hands.

[bush_cheney2004]

American President Barack Hussein Obama marks the end of the Iraq War and occupation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D08BB-Gw0-M