It's stuff like this that ruins the reputation of civil servants.

[Boges]

This is absolutely despicable!

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/03/15/province_in_talks_with_peel_childrens_aid_society_over_strategies_in_leaked_memo.html

The internal memo, obtained by the Star, indicated that a certain number of cases had to be ongoing to guarantee a level of funding from the province.

One of the strategies was asking child protection workers not to close any ongoing cases during the month even though, as an anonymous whistleblower alleged, the move could be detrimental to families.

These are desperate people doing desperate things, she said. Youre not looking for the childs interest to get them out of the system if your funding formula is only based on the volume of children you have in the system.

The Peel CAS currently operates with a $2.3-million deficit. Province-wide, childrens aid societies face a $40-million deficit this year, and are carrying a historic debt of $33 million, according to the Ontario Association of Childrens Aid Societies.

Currently, the agencies are funded solely on the number of cases they handle. That model is set to change this year with funding based not only on caseload but also on socioeconomic factors within each societys catchment area.

The internal memo, signed by seven senior service managers, instructs staff to complete as many investigations as possible (no fewer than 1,000), transfer as many cases as possible to ongoing services, and not close any ongoing cases before the end of the fiscal year, March 31. The memo indicated that these strategies were necessary to reduce the societys current deficit and secure future funding from the province.

Our volumes continue to be lower than our projections and this will result in less funding, the memo stated.

So it's good news that child neglect cases are down but it's not good for the civil servants that want the money. So they are risking breaking up families in order to maintain funding.

The memo also suggests there's a quota system! What immoral people.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Boges

[punked]

This is absolutely despicable!http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/03/15/province_in_talks_with_peel_childrens_aid_society_over_strategies_in_leaked_memo.htmlSo it's good news that child neglect cases are down but it's not good for the civil servants that want the money. So they are risking breaking up families in order to maintain funding.

The memo also suggests there's a quota system! What immoral people.

This and the whole March spending madness is what the NDP in NS ended. They also might be the only province this year to have a balanced budget. Your move pretend conservatives on this board.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

This is absolutely despicable!

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/03/15/province_in_talks_with_peel_childrens_aid_society_over_strategies_in_leaked_memo.html

So it's good news that child neglect cases are down but it's not good for the civil servants that want the money. So they are risking breaking up families in order to maintain funding.

The memo also suggests there's a quota system! What immoral people.

You speak as though this corruption is unique to the public sector.

I'm not trying to downplay this act however;

Let us not forget the countless examples of private sector rigging the system to ensure profit and continued operation.

For instance, the example given by Michael Moore where they did not send kids home from a youth detention centre to keep making money off of holding them... The PRIVATIZED centre... keeping teens ready to go back, to make another buck.

Don't even get me started about the bank bailouts...

Edited March 15, 2013 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Boges]

Well if they were taking public money they aren't really privatized. And that was equally as wrong. You could say the same thing about Defense contractors in the US.

This branch of CAS didn't care about families it might have ruined, it just needed it's fix of public funds.

[Canuckistani]

This is what's wrong with contracting out this sort of thing. These societies need to maintain funding, so they try ways to bring in more money. Why isn't child protection provided by the government? The govt is just trying to get the service on the cheap, with the usual catastrophies.

And to be clear, these were not civil servants. But don't let your ideological blinders get in the way.

[Boges]

So your contention is that contracting out costs more because the company is greedy and does stuff like this?

Again if you're getting money from the government you're ultimately public sector. These people are defacto civil servants even if the Province of Ontario isn't on their cheques.

A true contracting out situation would be like garbage removal where said government would accept bids for the service and that would be the amount of money given to the private sector.

What's happening here would be akin to what doctors do. They try to make people come in as many times as possible so they can keep billing the government.

Having a quota system for Family Services is immoral and whoever came up with that idea is a pretty immoral person.

[Argus]

So it's good news that child neglect cases are down but it's not good for the civil servants that want the money. So they are risking breaking up families in order to maintain funding.

The memo also suggests there's a quota system! What immoral people.

You do realize that the only way the Star got that memo is an angry civil servant leaked it to them, right? Don't use the actions of big shots up top to attack all civil servants.

[The_Squid]

These people are defacto civil servants even if the Province of Ontario isn't on their cheques.

Saying it does not make it so.... They are not public servants. They work for a private company.

[August1991]

Let us not forget the countless examples of private sector rigging the system to ensure profit and continued operation.

In the private sector, I am free to choose. In the public sector, I am not allowed to choose.

"... rigging the system... "? You mean an individual abused the power of the State for personal benefit... (I'm amazed. What's new?)

----

When the State uses its power, it means no choice. The State must be restricted.

Edited March 16, 2013 by August1991

[punked]

In the private sector, I am free to choose. In the public sector, I am not allowed to choose.

"... rigging the system... "? You mean an individual abused the power of the State for personal benefit... (I'm amazed. What's new?)

----

When the State uses its power, it means no choice. The State must be restricted.

Yep just look at cell phones you are free to chose any of the most expensive cell phone contracts in the whole world from 4 companies that "compete" to make sure prices stay just where they are. Am I right? How about deregulated power? Ontario and Alberta, you are free to chose from any power company yet prices rose by some 40% compared to the rest of Canada who aren't free to chose. Love me some freedom.

[Boges]

Yep just look at cell phones you are free to chose any of the most expensive cell phone contracts in the whole world from 4 companies that "compete" to make sure prices stay just where they are. Am I right? How about deregulated power? Ontario and Alberta, you are free to chose from any power company yet prices rose by some 40% compared to the rest of Canada who aren't free to chose. Love me some freedom.

I'll agree with you about cell phones, however, the Feds did allow new low cost carriers like Wind to compete. The problem is they have to piggyback the signal the big two paid billions to create.

I put the blame of increased Hydro rates in Ontario on the shoulders of the provincial government. The green energy initiative has made hydro exponentially more expensive. You also have a government that plays musical chairs with power plants to win votes at a cost of hundreds of millions. You can't blame the private sector for that.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Boges

[punked]

I'll agree with you about cell phones, however, the Feds did allow new low cost carriers like Wind to compete. The problem is they have to piggyback the signal the big two paid billions to create.

I put the blame of increased Hydro rates in Ontario on the shoulders of the provincial government. The green energy initiative has made hydro exponentially more expensive. You also have a government that plays musical chairs with power plants to win votes at a cost of hundreds of millions. You can't blame the private sector for that.

You deregulate a power market and prices go up even with all the Freedom of choice you can have. Look anywhere, where it is done. Some industries have no business being private. Especially the ones the public need and that have a high cost to get into. Starting up a cell phone, Internet, or power company costs million and millions of dollars so few get in and when they are in they can price fix to make huge profits. A mixed system is what we need seriously. The governments should be involved in some industry look at auto insurance rates in Canada. There are countless examples.

Edited March 16, 2013 by punked

[Boges]

You deregulate a power market and prices go up even with all the Freedom of choice you can have. Look anywhere, where it is done. Some industries have no business being private. Especially the ones the public need and that have a high cost to get into. Starting up a cell phone, Internet, or power company costs million and millions of dollars so few get in and when they are in they can price fix to make huge profits. A mixed system is what we need seriously. The governments should be involved in some industry look at auto insurance rates in Canada. There are countless examples.

I remember one poster from BC on this site telling me what he/she paid for auto insurance, where the system is only public and it's a lot more than what you can get in Ontario. You just have to be willing to shop around a bit.

BTW regarding power, my bill comes from one company. The only real choice I have is to go with a private provider that fixes your rate for 5 years in a contract. That's a bit of a gamble. I don't really see much of a choice in how I receive power.

Going back to cell phones, cable and Internet. If you're a smart consumer, there are many ways to play companies against each other to get a pretty good deal.

[punked]

I remember one poster from BC on this site telling me what he/she paid for auto insurance, where the system is only public and it's a lot more than what you can get in Ontario. You just have to be willing to shop around a bit.

BTW regarding power, my bill comes from one company. The only real choice I have is to go with a private provider that fixes your rate for 5 years in a contract. That's a bit of a gamble. I don't really see much of a choice in how I receive power.

Going back to cell phones, cable and Internet. If you're a smart consumer, there are many ways to play companies against each other to get a pretty good deal.

In BC the government pulled a Billion dollars out of the insurance company 2 years ago so yah thats those free market Liberals for you they can't even let a good thing work on its own. They kinda had I guess to cover their HST debts when it was repealed however their is more to that story then meets the eye. In the end in Canada on average a public insurance is cheaper that is a fact.

Considering Ontario deregulated the power industry so anyone could "freely compete" 10 years ago you can see why I say a mixed system in some industries is needed.

Canadian cell phone operates charge some of the highest rates in the world, Canadian Internet is some of the slowest and our cable operators are also our Internet operators so they cap how much you can use so that you can't get rid of your television for direct streaming. That does not sound like the free market to me. Some industries need the government to be involved. You might say you like it the way it is but even now the government is involved if nothing else then to prevent these large companies from bleeding us dry. I mean look even Tony Clement told the CRTC they had to let other Internet companies on bells lines because if he didn't Canadian Internet would never get more competitive.

[shortlived]

;These things should just be done through the courts anyway. Why the hell have a pbulically funded private organization? This is part of the social system but imo the courts should manage these things. It is historical though, but yes it is problematic of requiring quotas on child abuse. They shouldn't be funding the private sector anyway though.

The government could just make boarding schools or something. Direct funding is the key, cut all the crap.

If Bronte can do it for less the government can too..

The costs of court and funding staff, and still paying for things like education adds up to more than sending the kids off to private school.

http://www.brontecollege.ca/

The other $1300 that is above the cost of the $9700 average for students seems to be likely enough to offset the cost of staff, administration and future costs perhaps related to delinquency that the childrens aid system creates with foster and broken homes with an absence of structure and strong peer support groups in that a boarding environment would provide.

Edited March 16, 2013 by shortlived

[Canuckistani]

I remember one poster from BC on this site telling me what he/she paid for auto insurance, where the system is only public and it's a lot more than what you can get in Ontario. You just have to be willing to shop around a bit.

More ideological blinkers:

Ontario drivers pay about 80 per cent more for auto insurance than those in B.C., according to a new study released Tuesday by the Consumers' Association of Canada. "Consumers in Ontario have been clearly harmed by outrageous price increases for auto insurance over the past three years," association president Bruce Cran said in a news release.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2005/07/19/insurance050719.html

[Michael Hardner]

More ideological blinkers:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2005/07/19/insurance050719.html

This is another example where the right wing=choice meme fails us, it seems.

[Boges]

In BC the government pulled a Billion dollars out of the insurance company 2 years ago so yah thats those free market Liberals for you they can't even let a good thing work on its own. They kinda had I guess to cover their HST debts when it was repealed however their is more to that story then meets the eye. In the end in Canada on average a public insurance is cheaper that is a fact.

Considering Ontario deregulated the power industry so anyone could "freely compete" 10 years ago you can see why I say a mixed system in some industries is needed.

Canadian cell phone operates charge some of the highest rates in the world, Canadian Internet is some of the slowest and our cable operators are also our Internet operators so they cap how much you can use so that you can't get rid of your television for direct streaming. That does not sound like the free market to me. Some industries need the government to be involved. You might say you like it the way it is but even now the government is involved if nothing else then to prevent these large companies from bleeding us dry. I mean look even Tony Clement told the CRTC they had to let other Internet companies on bells lines because if he didn't Canadian Internet would never get more competitive.

Why does the US have far cheaper telecommunications then? They also have cheaper hydro. In Europe hydro is lots more expensive but telecoms are cheaper. When I was in the UK recently LTE mobile speeds were just starting to appear. They've been available in parts of Canada for years now.

[punked]

Why does the US have far cheaper telecommunications then? They also have cheaper hydro. In Europe hydro is lots more expensive but telecoms are cheaper. When I was in the UK recently LTE mobile speeds were just starting to appear. They've been available in parts of Canada for years now.

Comparing the failings of one set of Private industry with another doesn't really help does it? In Canada these industries have such a high cost to get into with low density that only those with existing infrastructure can and will enter the market. This leads to an oligopoly which means price fixing costing us more. The way to break that oligopoly is to have the government get in the way somehow. They can either subsides investment or they can enter the market themselves. A mixed market for some industry is necessary take off the blinders and get out the bubble. You can still be a conservative and believe in a mixed market you know.

[Shady]

This is another example where the right wing=choice meme fails us, it seems.

Possibly. Although the article is from 2005. Perhaps there is a more recent source? Regardless, I don't think that government should be in the car insurance business. It should stick to core necessities, healthcare, education, defense, etc.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Shady

[BubberMiley]

Possibly. Although the article is from 2005. Perhaps there is a more recent source? Regardless, I don't think that government should be in the car insurance business. It should stick to core necessities, healthcare, education, defense, etc.

That would make sense if I didn't get a better product for less money than you do in Ontario.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why does the US have far cheaper telecommunications then? They also have cheaper hydro.

Because the U.S. can.....much bigger market....far more competition. I don't know why Canadians beat themselves up with these constant cost comparisons and hand wringing, as these are two different nations.

[BubberMiley]

Nobody has cheaper hydro than we do in Manitoba. The power companies in the U.S. buy it from us at wholesale for more than I have to pay. That's because we have civil servants running Manitoba Hydro and not money-sucking private.profiteers.

[Shady]

That would make sense if I didn't get a better product for less money than you do in Ontario.

I don't know that you do. Regardless, energy is different than insurance. There isn't all that much competition regarding energy, nor can there be, so government partnership is logical.

[Shady]

Nobody has cheaper hydro than we do in Manitoba. The power companies in the U.S. buy it from us at wholesale for more than I have to pay. That's because we have civil servants running Manitoba Hydro and not money-sucking private.profiteers.

Yes, civil servants that make more in salary and benefits than their private sector counterparts. I guess if you don't count their labour costs, the energy costs are cheaper.