Rob Ford, mayor of Toronto UPDATES

[BubberMiley]

He makes the point that seeing it once on a cellphone might not be the same as seeing it on a screen over and over again. Also I heard the dude being interviewed on the radio, he just wanted to point out that it's not terribly difficult and if he wanted to do more he could have.

I think he was responding to a Star story where faking the video would be technically impossible.

I saw his video on a cell phone. It looked completely fake. I think if he wanted to point out that it's not terribly difficult to make a real-looking video, he did a poor job. He just showed how difficult or impossible it would be to make a convincing one. I was already aware that you can drop one person's face on another person's body. Jay Leno puts his face on other people's bodies all the time in funny little videos. They look about the same as this guy's attempt.

I don't doubt there are professionals who can do a superior job to this guy either. I just doubt there are professionals who can get past the average person's natural, intuitive ability to spot a fake.

Edited May 29, 2013 by BubberMiley

[waldo]

In don't know if anyone else has seen this but it's a video of some guy making a video of Ford smoking crack in less than an hour. He's not a pro, or so he says.

Perhaps it's not so unbelievable that it could have been faked.

That is if it even exists.

wow! Those Somali guys must of had the tools... and mad-skills!

[g_bambino]

In don't know if anyone else has seen this but it's a video of some guy making a video of Ford smoking crack in less than an hour.

And it looks really fake.

[g_bambino]

He makes the point that seeing it once on a cellphone might not be the same as seeing it on a screen over and over again.

The Star reporters said they watched the video three times.

[Archanfel]

Wasn't the star against the war on drugs? Are they trying to advocate free needles for Rob Ford?

[BubberMiley]

Oooh, now he's ordering city staff to destroy all emails and phone records related to his departed inner circle. That sounds like it might be contrary to access to information laws. I'm anxious to see what excuse the resident facilitators have for that one.

[scribblet]

And it looks really fake.

It does but he said today on an interview it only took an hour and was only done to make a point. He would need more and better footage for a start, but I think he's made his point.

[BubberMiley]

I agree. The point being, some crackhead couldn't have possibly made a convincing one.

[eyeball]

How about a conspiracy of left-wing journalists?

[scribblet]

How about a lynch mob mentality where innuendo and smears don’t hide the fact that he was elected by a majority.

Hounding, shaming and smearing by a group which has been out to get him from day one, is not morally acceptable. This is a witch hunt and IMO is far below the acceptable standards of journalism. The Star obviously has a following of redneck readers now turned into a lynch mob. In the final analysis, the media has done more harm to Toronto and is crying ‘Ford’ once too often.

We know innocent until proven guilty mean nothing to a lynch mob, but it should mean something to others.

[Archanfel]

How about a lynch mob mentality where innuendo and smears don’t hide the fact that he was elected by a majority.

Hounding, shaming and smearing by a group which has been out to get him from day one, is not morally acceptable. This is a witch hunt and IMO is far below the acceptable standards of journalism. The Star obviously has a following of redneck readers now turned into a lynch mob. In the final analysis, the media has done more harm to Toronto and is crying ‘Ford’ once too often.

We know innocent until proven guilty mean nothing to a lynch mob, but it should mean something to others.

Let's be truthful, he wasn't elected by a majority. Very few leaders are elected by a majority anymore, people simply don't vote.

And this is not a witch hunt, I have no doubt Rob Ford takes drugs, I just don't care since I believe that's personal freedom, which oddly enough is what liberalism all about.

Of course, the star and their followers don't care either, they just want Rob Ford gone. Do you see Bubber, or the Star for that matter, apologize now that the city has denied their mindless accusation? Of course not.

I don't think the people of Toronto is stupid enough to believe either side. At least not truely. People say they believe things because they want to believe things, not that those things are believable.

In the end, this is just a side show that nobody cares. Would Bubble support Rob Ford if it was proven false? Of course not. Would you oppose Rob Ford if it's proven true? Probably not either. Rob Ford is not going to be re-elected because he did a bad job running the city (still better than a lot of other politicians mind you), not because he took some drugs. For example, he could have cut funding to affordable housing (and fight the province in court) when he had the chance, but he chickened out. He has only himself to blame.

Let's be entertained by this circus at least.

[Black Dog]

How about a lynch mob mentality where innuendo and smears don’t hide the fact that he was elected by a majority.

Plurality.

Hounding, shaming and smearing by a group which has been out to get him from day one, is not morally acceptable.

I'll ask again: what Ford "scandal" was he not in some way complicit in?

This is a witch hunt and IMO is far below the acceptable standards of journalism. The Star obviously has a following of redneck readers now turned into a lynch mob.

In the final analysis, the media has done more harm to Toronto and is crying ‘Ford’ once too often.

Right. All the media. Not the blundering buffoon or his blowhard brother.

We know innocent until proven guilty mean nothing to a lynch mob, but it should mean something to others.

What does this even mean? We aren't talking about a court of law.

[Rue]

1. There are serious repeating public relations and communications issues generated by a combination of very sleezy inneuendo smeer journalism throwing out unsubstantiated heresay and then reactions from the Ford office that escalate the issues through confrontative and childish responses;

2. There are serious issues with how both Fords communicate-they both do not have the intelligence or insight to respond using very short, precise answers that do not contain insults and emotions and if you go into politics you have to learn people bait you and you can't take the bait-if every time someone says something you don't like and you lose it in response it simply adds fuel to the fire.

In regards to 1 and 2, when Ford was faced with yet another accusation of crack use, he should have been immediate and direct, go to the press, hold a conference and answer the questions.No emotions, no anger-just stick to the facts-yes I was in a picture with some black men-I pose with many people-I do not assume because they were black they were drug pushers-I am a man of the people-all your picture of me with two black guys shows is that-if you want to smeer those people as drug pushers, go ahead but to assume because I pose with black people makes me a drug user is baseless. As for the alleged video and other allegations being made-it is unreasonable to expect me to respond when such allegations have not been proven. Show me the proof of these claims, then I can comment. Until then, no I do not comment or react to heresay and no I do not think my consituents would expect me to either. It is the basis of fairness that before someone can respond to an accusation or charge, they at least are given full disclosure of it so they can at least no what it is. Telling me or anyone else, someone saw a film but they don't have the film is nonsensical. It is why the law has a heresay evidence rule that says indirect evidence since it can not be verified or tested can not be relied upon. Finally if someone wants to spread rumours about me being an alcoholic, drug user, sexually inappropriate, in essence personal remarks designed not to address my work for the city but who I am perceived as, as a person, then to you I say, I can't stop you. Yes I am fat. No I am not attractive. Yes I swet through my shirts. Yes I engage in rough and tumble politics to fight increases in taxes. That's why I was voted in and this fat man aint finished singing.

That above was the speech he sould have made then walked away. Punch back, stay above the accusations, do not repeat the allegation in your response to it, do not insult on the response-portray yourself as thick skinned.

He clearly has not had proper communications advise. Either that or he ignores the proper advise and that probably explains their quitting. I doubthave the b.s. claiming they left because he's a drug addict. I do not have a problem believing they quit because he won't take their advise.

I have yet to see any legal proof of the allegations. Until then that is b.s.

If you want to make an arguement he is his own worst enemy and is self-destructive and engages in communications responses that escalate not defuse conflicts, I would have to agree.

If you want to make the arguement City Hall is now a circus I would agree.

I mean compare Rob Ford to David Crombie my favourite mayor of all time anywhere in North America or the world for that matter. Hey compare him to the boring and sometimes insipid Art Eggleton. They never had such problems. Even John Sewell perceived as the baddest boy of municipal politics and an abrupt, anti-social, awkward individual, downright rude and elitist, ever alienated the press this badly.

Ford can not think he can fight the Star without enlisting the same media and being forthright with them.

His recent press statement was abrupt and not fullsome enough and his leaving after without answering questions sent a horrible signal.

I have real problems with his communications.

That said, the people voted him in and its up to the people, not the Star, not a bunch of downtown elitist millionaire socialists retried and living off their generous pensions to decide whether he stays or goes.

Ford is a beligerent sob and his own worst enemy but the elitist leftists playing morality police with him are just as thin skinned and ignorant.

[Rue]

Black Dog asked in his last response: " What does this even mean? We aren't talking about a court of law."

Someone explain to him that when you lynch someone yes its done outside the court of law. If he has a problem with that concept

you might also wish to explain to him the heresay rule in law and why its used to deem second hand evidence unreliable.

It was designed precisely to prevent lynchings.

Sounds like Black Dog wants one with the fat man.

Well now.

Soon there will be a gay pride parade and Black Dog can march with banners calling for the fat man's behind. Hey he could even kill two birds with one stone and add in the anti Israel banners and mix it in one political statement.

This is a democracy. But someone should remind Black Dog he can't lynch anyone. Also with fat men you are gonna need a very thick rope and a lot of gasoline. From what I see so far, the Star has done a lot of spitting and hissing but has yet to provide any gasoline let alone rope.

[Black Dog]

Black Dog asked in his last response: " What does this even mean? We aren't talking about a court of law."

Someone explain to him that when you lynch someone yes its done outside the court of law. If he has a problem with that concept

you might also wish to explain to him the heresay rule in law and why its used to deem second hand evidence unreliable.

It was designed precisely to prevent lynchings.

Sounds like Black Dog wants one with the fat man.

Well now.

Soon there will be a gay pride parade and Black Dog can march with banners calling for the fat man's behind. Hey he could even kill two birds with one stone and add in the anti Israel banners and mix it in one political statement.

This is a democracy. But someone should remind Black Dog he can't lynch anyone. Also with fat men you are gonna need a very thick rope and a lot of gasoline. From what I see so far, the Star has done a lot of spitting and hissing but has yet to provide any gasoline let alone rope.

What an incredibly offensive (and poorly constructed) analogy.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Black Dog

[PIK]

LOL. The evidence is piling up that the Mayor smokes crack and your biggest concern is journalistic ethics?

What evidence? I see no evidence . Did you see him smoke or did you see the video. And if the star can do this to him without evidence they can do it to anybody

Edited May 30, 2013 by PIK

[Black Dog]

What evidence? I see no evidence . Did you see him smoke or did you see the video. And if the star can do this to him without evidence they can do it to anybody

Do you honestly think newspapers can invent such things out of whole cloth without repercussions?

[Archanfel]

Do you honestly think newspapers can invent such things out of whole cloth without repercussions?

Yes. Did the Star lose anything because they falsely said that emails were deleted? No, they didn't. So what's stopping them from making another lie?

Now, I do believe Rob Ford use drugs, but that's besides the point. Newspapers invent things all the time for profits. That shouldn't be news to you.

[scribblet]

Newspapers seem to be able to say anything they like based on allegations, innuendo and anonymous sources. Surely if you are out to destroy a person's life and career they should have to produce real tangible evidence.

I no longer care about Ford, drugs and videos, I'm more concerned about what a big newspaper can do to a person because they are on a personal vendetta or a witch hunt. IMO it's not that the Star cares about good local governance, all they care about is getting Ford out and winning their little vendetta. It's gone beyond reporting news, the media is making it and shaping it. They aren't called the Media Party for nothing.

[Archanfel]

Newspapers seem to be able to say anything they like based on allegations, innuendo and anonymous sources. Surely if you are out to destroy a person's life and career they should have to produce real tangible evidence.

I no longer care about Ford, drugs and videos, I'm more concerned about what a big newspaper can do to a person because they are on a personal vendetta or a witch hunt. IMO it's not that the Star cares about good local governance, all they care about is getting Ford out and winning their little vendetta. It's gone beyond reporting news, the media is making it and shaping it. They aren't called the Media Party for nothing.

The Star is a private company, they can do whatever they want within the limit of the laws. Rob Ford can sue them if he wants although I wouldn't advice that. I am sure the lawyers at the Star read every article they publish.

You are not advocating government interfering with private company operations, are you?

BTW, I suspect the Star couldn't care less about the little vendetta, not the bosses at least. They are doing it for the money since their readers like to read it. The Toronto Sun does the same thing for the right wing readers. It's all about profits. You remember that the Star laid off a whole bunch of workers while they were complaining about public sector lay offs?

[g_bambino]

It does but he said today on an interview it only took an hour and was only done to make a point. He would need more and better footage for a start, but I think he's made his point.

What? That a fake video could be made? I don't think that was ever in question. The point that's always been put forward (and remains unaddressed) is how much it would take to make a convincing fake video such as the one described by the three people who've watched the one that supposedly shows Ford smoking crack and muttering a bunch of insults and other comments. That guy who demonstrates how to make Rob Ford look like he's smoking crack didn't get someone with the same girth as Ford, didn't obtain the same sweatshirt Ford's known to possess, and, most importantly, didn't have anyone else interact with the superimposed Ford and have that Ford speak back, or, indeed, speak at all; all things that would've needed to be done to have constructed the video as described by the three people who've said they've seen it.

[ed.: +]

Edited May 30, 2013 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

This is a witch hunt...

What differentiates a witch hunt from an investigation?

[g_bambino]

Did the Star lose anything because they falsely said that emails were deleted?

Did they say emails were deleted? Or did they say someone said emails were deleted? Big difference.

[Rue]

What an incredibly offensive (and poorly constructed) analogy.

Seldom a response comes to me from you where you do not preface the basis of your remarks with feelings.

Your feelings (feeling offended) mean nothing to me.

The issue is the press and people like you crying for Rob Ford's head. You are nothing but a lynch mob.

Offensive? I find it offensive you find what I said offensive. Say now-you will be further offended, and then I can after that.

Give it a rest with the feelings.

if you think its acceptable to destroy a man's career without proof you are nothing but another angry mob participant with a torch crying for

Frankenstein's head. Is that an acceptable analogy? Oh wait you want Joan of Arc? He's being put on a stake and burned. Oh wait I can

use the crucifix, Abraham's altar, if you want. Plenty more offensive analogies to poorly construct if you want.

Ford is his own worst enemy but self righteous selective people like you crying for his head make me want to puke with your sanctimonious proclomations and judgements as to his character.

[Black Dog]

Seldom a response comes to me from you where you do not preface the basis of your remarks with feelings.

Not true. Mostly I respond with the insults and mockery your nonsensical spewings warrant, but I'm trying to be a good boy these days.

Your feelings (feeling offended) mean nothing to me.

The issue is the press and people like you crying for Rob Ford's head. You are nothing but a lynch mob.

Offensive? I find it offensive you find what I said offensive. Say now-you will be further offended, and then I can after that.

Give it a rest with the feelings.

This is quite ironic given your hysterics here.

if you think its acceptable to destroy a man's career without proof you are nothing but another angry mob participant with a torch crying for

Frankenstein's head. Is that an acceptable analogy? Oh wait you want Joan of Arc? He's being put on a stake and burned. Oh wait I can

use the crucifix, Abraham's altar, if you want. Plenty more offensive analogies to poorly construct if you want.

You're comparing the end of a man's career with murder and human sacrifice, but I'm the one feeling all the feelings? Gold.

Ford is his own worst enemy but self righteous selective people like you crying for his head make me want to puke with your sanctimonious proclomations and judgements as to his character.

Yes yes we are all terrible people for demanding answers from a man who has flipped off small children, appeared drunk and abusive in public and who may have smoked hard drugs while serving as mayor, the poor defenseless little lamb.