Rob Ford, mayor of Toronto UPDATES

[g_bambino]

Very skilled video manipulators might make a great video that takes longer to prove it is fake, but there will likely still be a misplaced shadow or something.

AW's defense also requires an explanation of who these supposed drug dealers knew who was skilled enough to find a sufficient amount of the right existing footage of Rob Ford wearing the same clothes to piece together so as to make it appear as though he were sitting smoking crack and then insert that, with all the shadows manipulated correctly, into a designed set with actors talented enough to play around the non-existent-to-be-added-later-in-the-editing-room Ford; and how likely it is that all that pre-existing, successfully employable footage of Ford in the same clothes exists. A couple of people here have said this kind of fakery is easy. It's actually not.

[scribblet]

Are you saying, you think, Ford got him killed? Or did the fact that he tried to extort Toronto's media make him an obvious target.

Here go. If this drug dealer shows up dead, we know who is going to be blamed. Evidence be damned..

[BubberMiley]

Oh dear. Now his entire communications staff have quit "on principle." I guess they decided not to wait until the video was authenticated by "experts."

[Guest American Woman]

Apparently they quit because Ford didn't stick to their script.

Sources said both men resigned on principle because they felt they could not continue in good conscience after Ford's statement on Friday.

Ford’s former press secretary, Adrienne Batra, wrote in a weekend Toronto Sun column that the statement was “barely recognizable” compared to a statement his staff had written for him. Batra, citing unnamed sources, wrote: “Ford’s family basically wrote the statement, with only a sprinkling of staff input.” http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/05/27/rob_ford_video_scandal_mayors_office_loses_more_staff_source.html

And that's according to the Star.

[Boges]

This is clearly a distraction from the news that Ford got a drug dealer killed. :-D

At least this press staff incident finally made Ford do a press conference fielding actual questions from actual reporters.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Boges

[BubberMiley]

Apparently they quit because Ford didn't stick to their script.

I wonder what part of the script they found offensive enough to quit over. Was it “I do not use crack cocaine, nor am I an addict of crack cocaine." or "As for a video, I cannot comment on a video that I have never seen or does not exist.”?

[Guest American Woman]

AW's defense also requires an explanation of who these supposed drug dealers knew who was skilled enough to find a sufficient amount of the right existing footage of Rob Ford wearing the same clothes to piece together so as to make it appear as though he were sitting smoking crack and then insert that, with all the shadows manipulated correctly, into a designed set with actors talented enough to play around the non-existent-to-be-added-later-in-the-editing-room Ford; and how likely it is that all that pre-existing, successfully employable footage of Ford in the same clothes exists. A couple of people here have said this kind of fakery is easy. It's actually not.

Try to understand this. What I am saying is fact, not "defense." I don't live in Canada, never mind Toronto, and have no feelings about Ford one way or the other. First of all, your comments are such that the video has been examined in detail by experts - .which it has not. Not even close.

Secondly, apparently you find it impossible to believe that a drug dealer could have contacts that could hook him up with someone who has enough know-how to present a video on an iPhone to a couple of reporters who aren't even aligned with Ford politically and pass it off as authentic. I don't find that a stretch at all. I don't think the Gawker is exactly mainstream media credibility wise, either, and I've seen how the Star has misrepresented incidents and totally used false information. If it were Fox News reporters making the same type of claim on the same type of evidence against a liberal politician, I'm sure those who are declaring Ford's guilt would be all over it.

Again. I don't live in Toronto. I am not Canadian. I am not conservative. I have no horse in this race. But the idea that a drug dealer could hand pick a couple of reporters to show a video to on an iPhone, which an expert says would be "difficult to authenticate," and so many people have placed all of their trust in it, declaring Ford guilty, is beyond ludicrous. It's downright ignorant. And, as I said, scary.

[Guest American Woman]

I wonder what part of the script they found offensive enough to quit over. Was it “I do not use crack cocaine, nor am I an addict of crack cocaine." or "As for a video, I cannot comment on a video that I have never seen or does not exist.”?

Perhaps it was simply the fact that he had the audacity not to stick to their script. At any rate, at least you are "wondering" rather than making declarations. That's a step in the right direction.

Edited May 27, 2013 by American Woman

[g_bambino]

[Y]our comments are such that the video has been examined in detail by experts.

I made no such claim. I am merely imagining that if a video seen on an iPhone (and, being the owner of one, that's not so hard to do) was convincing enough to make three assumedly intelligent people believe (and risk their careers saying publicly) that Rob Ford was actually in a room with other people, interacting with them, and smoking crack and making disparaging comments about a person and persons, as those three people have described it, the quality of the produciton must be quite excellent.

[A]pparently you find it impossible to believe that a drug dealer could have contacts that could hook him up with someone who has enough know-how to present a video on an iPhone to a couple of reporters... and pass it off as authentic.

I didn't say it was impossible. I'm saying it's highly implausible, considering what would actually be involved in putting together such a faked video.

If you don't think it's much of a stretch, perhaps you could address the weaknesses in your position that I pointed out earlier: How likely was it that suitable extant footage could be found of Ford in his sweatshirt doing something that could be manipulated into appearlng as though he were smoking crack (was it video of him sitting in a chair in his hoodie eating a hot dog with the hot dog digitally replaced by a crack pipe and a lighter)? How likely was it that the producers of this hypothetical fake movie could construct a set, light it, and have drug dealers-cum-actors move around in it and speak in such a way as to make the eventual insertion of the pre-recorded Ford cut-out convincingly appear as though part of actual events?

[ed.: c/e]

Edited May 27, 2013 by g_bambino

[scribblet]

This is clearly a distraction from the news that Ford got a drug dealer killed. :-D

At least this press staff incident finally made Ford do a press conference fielding actual questions from actual reporters.

Clearly

They just found a body in garbage bag somewhere, wonder if it's the drug dealers.. not funny but if he shows up dead, what next.

Personally I find this whole media bloodhound pack mentality has jumped the shark. Not one shred of hard evidence and quite likely the media has ruined at least two careers.

[BubberMiley]

At any rate, at least you are "wondering" rather than making declarations. That's a step in the right direction.

I just made declarations of my beliefs, just as you did. I'm sorry my beliefs differ from yours.

[Icebound]

^...

^{http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/686827/mayor-rob-ford-aides-talk-of-tape-sparked-police-probe/}

^{So Towhey went to the police. Wonder what that was about?}

^...

[BubberMiley]

This would make a great movie. Too bad Chris Farley is dead. He would have been perfect.

[Black Dog]

Again. I don't live in Toronto. I am not Canadian. I am not conservative. I have no horse in this race. But the idea that a drug dealer could hand pick a couple of reporters to show a video to on an iPhone, which an expert says would be "difficult to authenticate," and so many people have placed all of their trust in it, declaring Ford guilty, is beyond ludicrous. It's downright ignorant. And, as I said, scary.

The actual quote is "it's going to be difficult just to visually observe a piece of video and say 'that's authentic.'" That said, your expert also says such a video would be extremely difficult to fake.

CBC News: How easy is it to produce a phoney video that would pass a serious forensic analysis?

David McKay: It would be difficult to do that. You'd have to have the right software tools, and skill as well. You'd have to know what you'd need to do.

You'd also have to have some kind of knowledge of what kind of analysis would be done on the video so that you would know what areas you needed to conceal.

It sounds like you'd have to be pretty technically sophisticated to pull off a fake video that would get past serious forensic analysis.

McKay: Yes, you'd definitely have to have some good skills.

So yeah, we'd need to have the original video analyzed. However, what's more likely here: that the mayor was caught smoking crack or some gangbangers from the projects were able to pull together the resources and expertise to pull off a fake video showing a guy who looks and sounds like Rob Ford smoking crack?

[AzzHat]

Rob Ford is a media star. This is way better than reality TV. you can't make this stuff up...

His next career is a new TV show: "Mayorville".

[Spiderfish]

All this speculation on whether the video was faked or not, and how difficult it would be to create is predicated on the assumption that the video exists. At this point, no video has been produced, so all this discussion on the degree of difficulty and resources required to fake a video is baseless spitballing.

If a video is produced that clearly shows Ford smoking up, I would be inclined to believe the allegations made, and it would shift the burdeon of proof to Ford to try and defend innocence. Haven't seen any video yet, though...

[eyeball]

What isn't baseless spit-balling is that reporters have reported seeing a video that would be difficult to fake. You've seen the reporters right?

It seems the only baseless speculation in all this is that the reporters are part of some left-wing conspiracy and lying about what they've seen.

[Spiderfish]

What isn't baseless spit-balling is that reporters have reported seeing a video that would be difficult to fake. You've seen the reporters right?

I've heard the allegations made by the reporters, yes.

I guess a headline like "reporters allege to have seen a difficult to fake video" isn't nearly as gripping.

It seems the only baseless speculation in all this is that the reporters are part of some left-wing conspiracy and lying about what they've seen.

I'm not accusing the reporters of lying, they may have seen such a video...but I haven't.

[Boges]

I'm sooo sick of this story now. I wonder how long this story can keep going when no video has yet to be seen.

[g_bambino]

All this speculation on whether the video was faked or not, and how difficult it would be to create is predicated on the assumption that the video exists.

To deny the video exists is to accuse three people from different media outlets in two countries of conspiring to lie in order to defame Rob Ford, putting themselves not only at risk of ruining their careers but possibly also facing criminal charges.

[BubberMiley]

I'm sooo sick of this story now. I wonder how long this story can keep going when no video has yet to be seen.

I'm enjoying it more and more. I think the story can keep going indefinitely so long as there continue to be provocative new developments like staff firings, resignations "on principle", murders of the individuals involved, and desperate pleas to ignore the obvious from Ford Nation.

[Black Dog]

I'm sooo sick of this story now. I wonder how long this story can keep going when no video has yet to be seen.

Meh. The video is just a MacGuffin. This is about the slow train wreck that is the Ford regime coming to another bend in the track.

[Guest American Woman]

The actual quote is "it's going to be difficult just to visually observe a piece of video and say 'that's authentic.'" That said, your expert also says such a video would be extremely difficult to fake.

Yep. You repeated the quote just as I stated it. That said, "my" expert (didn't realize he was mine! ) says, as you point out, that such a video would be extremely difficult to make - not that it would be impossible.

So yeah, we'd need to have the original video analyzed.

Yep.

However, what's more likely here: that the mayor was caught smoking crack or some gangbangers from the projects were able to pull together the resources and expertise to pull off a fake video showing a guy who looks and sounds like Rob Ford smoking crack?

What's "more likely" isn't relevant regarding whether the video is fake or authentic. I could ask what the likelihood of two Star reporters looking at the video without bias is, and I don't think you'd let that answer factor into it. Furthermore, drug dealers certainly could have contacts that could fix them up with someone who has the knowledge to make a video that would pass for real under the circumstances.

The bottom line, as I've been saying and you acknowledge, is that we need to have the original video analyzed.

[BubberMiley]

I could ask what the likelihood of two Star reporters looking at the video without bias is, and I don't think you'd let that answer factor into it.

What sort of bias are you alleging?

[Guest American Woman]

What sort of bias are you alleging?

I'm not alleging anything. Sorry my point totally escaped you.