cybercoma Posted May 3, 2014 Report Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) 1. That is not what's being said. 2. I already said I'm in favour of rehab,not jail. Seems like folks here don't read what other people actually say, if they have a different opinion. What I'm getting here is, let's re-interpret what OftenWrong says to make his views look ridiculous. You people call this debate? I'm already sorry I wasted my time here. That's pretty funny coming from a guy/girl that mischaracterized everyone else's arguments as "attacking Rob Ford for his drug use." Edited May 3, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted May 3, 2014 Report Posted May 3, 2014 I'd like to know Rob Ford's opinion of InSite. Well, not only does Vancouver have InSite. We also have crack pipe vending machines to help stop the spread of disease among drug users. Perhaps that is the real reason Ford was in Vancouver on the pretext of a funeral. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
cybercoma Posted May 3, 2014 Report Posted May 3, 2014 I'd like to know Rob Ford's opinion of InSite. You can see his opinions of it here: http://globalnews.ca/news/707822/mayor-ford-opposed-to-safe-injection-sites-in-toronto/ Quote
WWWTT Posted May 3, 2014 Author Report Posted May 3, 2014 Why is it that people on the left, the same ones calling for drug legalization and telling us drugs are not bad, are the ones leading the attacks on Ford for his own drug use? Don't they see their own hypocrissy. This is why the CPC is implementing mandatory minimum sentences, so anyone who takes illegal drugs gets convicted and carries a criminal record. Keep the people safe. Man you're stretching it thin here! Especially when the illegal act of drinking under age happened at Harper's house! Let me ask you, is it OK to drink and drive? Would you feel safe if you flew on a plane where the pilot two days ago was so drunk, he totally forgot everything that occurred ? The mayor of a major Canadian city can't be getting wasted and be addicted to substances! There are some standards that must be kept. If your excuse for denying smoking crack is because you were too drunk to remember, then you should have thought about your addiction problems before running for public office! This Rob Ford character is just plain selfish and a very poor decision maker, that is so obvious, he just has to go! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Wayward Son Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 The mayor of a major Canadian city can't be getting wasted and be addicted to substances! There are some standards that must be kept. I agree with most of what you say about Ford. My only disagreement is that if Rob Ford or any other politician is upfront with their constituents, before being elected, about being wasted much of the time (whether by booze, legal or illegal drugs) and those voters still choose to elect him, I would be ok with that democratic process. The voters of Toronto did not know that they were electing such a mayor, but if they choose to vote him back in - that is their choice (which I will find baffling) which they are free to make. Quote
WWWTT Posted May 4, 2014 Author Report Posted May 4, 2014 I agree with most of what you say about Ford. My only disagreement is that if Rob Ford or any other politician is upfront with their constituents, before being elected, about being wasted much of the time (whether by booze, legal or illegal drugs) and those voters still choose to elect him, I would be ok with that democratic process. The voters of Toronto did not know that they were electing such a mayor, but if they choose to vote him back in - that is their choice (which I will find baffling) which they are free to make. Ya I think I meant to write something like that in my comment but for some reason it still didn't feel right?!?!?! Hazel McCallion apparently likes the sauce as well. I heard a similar rumour about Susan Fennel (mayor of Brampton that I freekin wouldn't miss if she was voted away forever!) Being the mayor of a major city requires major decisions to be made, I would hope that these politicians have a clear head 99% of the time. I can see if you fall ill and are not yourself or if you are forced to take medication. But getting wasted on a regular basis??? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
OftenWrong Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) quote name="OftenWrong" post="962056" More rehab programs, less jails. But society is not ready for that attitude yet, thanks to the way the media attacks people like Ford. Do you get that? None of you touched this, which is the actual point I am making. As a person who advocates a more tolerant, forgiving view of drug abusers, but combined with the necessity of rehab, I find the media hysteria and public ridicule of Ford for his substance problems a major step backward for people with views like myself, the view that substance abuse is a medical condition, not criminal problem. If we are to change societies view of drug abuse to move away from incarceration, your attitudes need to change. You may have other real reasons to dislike Ford but clearly, the drug issue has taken over and is being used by proponents of prohibition to keep the public mindset in the status quo. There has been nary a rational voice to bring balance to this issue. You, the naive public have all be fooled. Edited May 4, 2014 by OftenWrong Quote
BubberMiley Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 As a person who advocates a more tolerant, forgiving view of drug abusers, but combined with the necessity of rehab, I find the media hysteria and public ridicule of Ford for his substance problems a major step backward for people with views like myself, the view that substance abuse is a medical condition, not criminal problem. This is why the CPC is implementing mandatory minimum sentences, so anyone who takes illegal drugs gets convicted and carries a criminal record. Keep the people safe.Hmmm...cognitive dissonance here? But it's not a major step backward for people with substance abuse problems. They should understand that there are consequences to their actions. Those consequences need not be legal, but they should expect that you can't remain mayor of a city and, at the same time, be a customer in its crack dens. Until Ford learns that lesson and ends his political career, he will have to face the consequences. And his apologists will have to suck up that reality too. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Wayward Son Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) None of you touched this, which is the actual point I am making. As a person who advocates a more tolerant, forgiving view of drug abusers, but combined with the necessity of rehab, I find the media hysteria and public ridicule of Ford for his substance problems a major step backward for people with views like myself, the view that substance abuse is a medical condition, not criminal problem. If we are to change societies view of drug abuse to move away from incarceration, your attitudes need to change. You may have other real reasons to dislike Ford but clearly, the drug issue has taken over and is being used by proponents of prohibition to keep the public mindset in the status quo. There has been nary a rational voice to bring balance to this issue. You, the naive public have all be fooled. The media reaction, and the reaction of those on this board, is concentrated on the hypocrisy, not the drug abuse. Do you think that media and those of us who you are attacking on this board would have the same reaction if Willie Nelson became a politician and was caught doing illegal drugs? I definitely think not. Do you think that the media and those of us who you are attacking on this board would have the same reaction if a politician who campaigned on progressive drug reforms was caught doing illegal drugs? I definitely think not. The major steps backward for people who view substance abuse as a medical condition and not a criminal problem (which apparently does not include you as BM just pointed out) are the public offices of hypocritical assholes like Rob Ford (who has never publicly changed his views on how poor people with drug abuse problems should be treated), and many long-time political supporters of Rob Ford. There was a good deal hypocrisy shown when many, but not all, allies of Rob Ford were tripping over themselves to try to justify why Rob Ford should be treated with privacy, compassion and rehab for the same problem that they advocate long, harsh, future destroying prison sentences for everyone else. Edited May 4, 2014 by Wayward Son Quote
GostHacked Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Haven't you ever heard that most people take drugs of some kind? And lots of people in high levels of management, judicial, government, they take drugs as well. Let alone alcohol. There are 'functional alcoholics'. My point is, there are so many drug users at all levels of society, you don't know it because they keep it well hidden. In that regard Ford's problem is not that he does drugs, but he doesn't keep it hidden. So why not legalize these types of drugs then? Then no one would have to hide it. But you cannot be held in good light if you are running a city while combating drugs and crime, and taking part in those activities that others would be jailed and sentenced for. The mayor is the same as everyone else under the law. Why is he treated different here? I find it ironic that people like you have such a hate on for Ford because he has a drug problem, and he's in denial, while you go and smoke your doobies and probably have your drinks, and point your finger at him. There are many reasons to hate/dislike Ford. His hypocritical stance on combating drugs while being an addict himself is not good for the position of Mayor. But let's look at the other issues that were brought up here. His belligerence to reporters. His denial of the drug use. His possible involvement to make people disappear after the crack video. His possible involvement with criminals and drug dealers. He has enough to eat at home. He is physically aggressive to other city council members. He constantly interrupts other council members when they are talking. He is caught out in public several times under the influence of alcohol or drugs, which has lead to many situations that do not paint him in a good light. Quote
WWWTT Posted May 4, 2014 Author Report Posted May 4, 2014 His belligerence to reporters. His denial of the drug use. His possible involvement to make people disappear after the crack video. His possible involvement with criminals and drug dealers. He has enough to eat at home. He is physically aggressive to other city council members. He constantly interrupts other council members when they are talking. He is caught out in public several times under the influence of alcohol or drugs, which has lead to many situations that do not paint him in a good light. Public urination!!! That one alone brings an incredible amount of shame to Toronto! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
On Guard for Thee Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 Why is it that people on the left, the same ones calling for drug legalization and telling us drugs are not bad, are the ones leading the attacks on Ford for his own drug use? Don't they see their own hypocrissy. This is why the CPC is implementing mandatory minimum sentences, so anyone who takes illegal drugs gets convicted and carries a criminal record. Keep the people safe. Mandatory minimum sentences are a really bad idea. They don't keep anybody safe and just cost a lot of money. Of all jurisdictions, the State of Texas found this out and even forwarded the results of an experiment they did were they took money out of the cost of running jail cells and put it into prevention programs. They targeted drug crime and found out they had less first timers and less recitivism. To the point were they recouped 3 bucks for every 1 spent. And keep in mind that guy sitting t the front of the court with all the fancy gowns on is called a "judge" Quote
Big Guy Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 Latest news has Ford landing in Chicago, speaking with American agents and "voluntarily withdrew" his application to enter the United States. Looks like Chicago doesn't want Rob in the country. No news where Ford is now. More sightings of Elvis than of Ford. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
guyser Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 Guelph...in rehab. The media will track him down soon. Quote
cybercoma Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 The media will track him down soon. That would be stupid of them. Quote
guyser Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 Oh perhaps....hopefully they only go as far as confirming he is in rehab and undergoing treatment. COnsidering the whole family are a bunch of liars only ensures someone will take on the task . Its not like anyone should beleive any of them. Quote
cybercoma Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 That's fine, but I hope they don't hound him while he's trying to recover if he's having an honest go at it. Quote
cybercoma Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 For the record, I'm beyond skeptical of his honesty. I imagine it's just a PR stunt for his campaign theme of second chances.Regardless, as I've already mentioned, a 30 day program is but the start of recovery. Crack is notoriously difficult to kick and he's using with his family. He's not going to be able to get out of that lifestyle so easily and I hardly think the man has hit a true rock bottom yet. Quote
cybercoma Posted May 7, 2014 Report Posted May 7, 2014 There's an interesting exclusive interview in The Sun with Rob Ford today. He says he's in a "working rehab," so he's working for his campaign as well as getting himself better. That's interesting and all, but the comments below the article are spot on. Most really good rehab programs isolate you from everything. The guy lives his life surrounded by crack dealers and users. One of the issues that he's supposed to be tackling is his vulgar disrespect for the other candidates. A proper rehab centre would isolate him from that stuff for at least 30 days, so he can get his head straight. Read his words, you can tell that he's just trying to say the right things and doesn't really have a genuine concern for himself. These aren't the words of someone that regrets their choices at all. It's the words of a megalomaniac still trying to get a fix from public attention. They're the words of an addict.Rob Ford needs to get serious about rehab. It's starting to look like this was all a big joke. He hopped on a plane and voluntarily turned around before entering the US. How stupid does he think people are? I can see the conversation with his brother now. "Hey Dougie boy, I've got the perfect plan. This video is going to be all over the media, so we'll tell 'em I'm goin' ta rehab. An' here's da best part, brother. I'll just turn around before I even get off da plane! Dat way I won't have ta answer any questions about da video and voters will totally sympathize with me because I'm gettin' 'help.' It can't fail! We'll be at the top of the polls in no time!"Rob Ford needs to get serious about cleaning up his life. Not because I think he's the absolute worst person for mayor. And let's be frank, when you have a choice of who to elect mayor, a responsible citizen doesn't put a criminal into office. A true conservative doesn't put someone they see as morally reprehensible into office and any true conservative would have moral issues with Ford's behaviour. Even if there's no other choices, how does one ethically support a law-breaking crackhead as mayor? Literally anyone would be a better candidate. He can't function. City Council stripped him of his powers due to his ridiculousness.Rob Ford needs to become a better person before he's electable. That doesn't happen overnight. It certainly doesn't happen in 30 days, especially when the people you're doing crack with are your own family. Especially when your friends and associates are the criminals that you claim you're going to be tough on. If Ford was truly serious about getting better, he would just go away and get better. A proper rehab program takes everything out of you. This isn't summer camp. This isn't a good time. Rehab strips you down to your core and rebuilds you. Now think about Rob Ford's words in this interview. This is not a man who has hit rock bottom. This is not a man who is serious about fundamentally changing his life. This is a man with a single solitary goal: power. And there is absolutely no way you become better from the kinds of problems he has when you continue to be obsessed with power. Quote
Rue Posted May 7, 2014 Report Posted May 7, 2014 Agree 100% Cyber. Basic principles of rehab are being violated.. That first two weeks to a month they strip off youir ego. Addicts are professional and skilled liars. The rehab specialists know this and rip off the behavioural layers they developed from their constant lying and it hurts. They rip it off through confrontation in group and other sessions. It's reality time. You clean toilets. No one has privileges. This idea he would have access to the outer world and find it fun to be going through rehab does not sound right at all. This notion he would be allowed to maintain his false ego through his calling constituents (where his power imbalance in his favour is preserved) goes against every basic rehab theory I know of. Doesn't smell right. It's also making a mockery of rehab. He basically sent a message he has privileges in rehab if we believe that is true. If he has privileges others do not have, the rehab can not work. Without equal treatment that lowers all participants to the same level of zero ego, it can't work. You have to be stripped of any connection to the outer world and then stripped again and again of all the self images you created before basic rehab can start. If he is allowed to leave his Mayor skin on so to speak, he can't heal. An addict has no business phoning constitutents.This is a message that says I can not help myself but I can help you? Nonsense. In real rehab a person who can't help himself is taight he is a danger to others and so the last thing they should be doing is carrying on the facade of being able to help anyone else.. You learn in rehab if you can't help yourself you can't help others and in factyou are just a danger to others. Rehab is no joke and it fsounds like he is treating it like a joke from his responses. As well the picture of Doug Ford posing as Mayor adds to the appearance of contempt being shown. It would not surprise me they are manipulating what ever the given situation is. If he is truly in rehab he should not be phoning anyone. Quote
Boges Posted May 7, 2014 Report Posted May 7, 2014 Saying "Rehab is Amazing" seems very manic behaviour for someone that's fighting addiction issues. Quote
jacee Posted May 7, 2014 Report Posted May 7, 2014 His brother is threatening him: If you don't come back and run for mayor, I'll take over. Some friggin 'brother' ... putting that pressure on him! Quote
crastric Posted May 7, 2014 Report Posted May 7, 2014 His brother is threatening him: If you don't come back and run for mayor, I'll take over. Some friggin 'brother' ... putting that pressure on him! Your suggestion that Doug is 'threatening' to take over Rob's campaign is misleading; the Brothers Ford see themselves as emblematic of an ideology that is larger than either of them. If Rob was not in a position to stage a campaign that would extend the tax-lowering message, I have little doubt that he would want Doug to 'carry the torch.' Quote
jacee Posted May 7, 2014 Report Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Your suggestion that Doug is 'threatening' to take over Rob's campaign is misleading; the Brothers Ford see themselves as emblematic of an ideology that is larger than either of them. If Rob was not in a position to stage a campaign that would extend the tax-lowering message, I have little doubt that he would want Doug to 'carry the torch.'I don't agree. I think Doug wants to believe that, wants to think he's the one in control, but Rob constantly tries to get out from under big bro without p'ng Doug off.Rob's try for mayor was his own idea. He went rogue, out from under Doug's control maybe for the first time in his life. If Rob's really in rehab, he's going to have to deal with these 'brother' issues too, and we'll see a real difference in their interaction. But ... it appears highly unlikely that Rob is in rehab at all: - He was turned back at the border because he had no rehab plan in place. - He's still doing business and interviews by phone. - He's been seen in High Park area at a Tim Hortons. He changed his clothes there. https://mobile.twitter.com/caylaclarkson/status/463660752142737408 http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=9814775 Edited May 7, 2014 by jacee Quote
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