Mass shooting

Boges · December 14, 2012

Just because something does not provide an all-inclusive, ideal solution to a problem does not mean it's a useless, bad idea. But before anyone can say this happened because of easy access to guns, the whole story needs to be heard. Maybe he already had legal access to guns before he did this.

On the other hand I like the idea that new guns cannot be purchased quickly, in certain circumstances. Gun control may not eliminate violence but might prevent someone from doing something violently, in the "heat of passion".

Aren't there mandatory waiting periods before one can obtain a legal firearm to prevent people from getting a gun to commit a crime of passion?

guyser · December 14, 2012

Aren't there mandatory waiting periods before one can obtain a legal firearm to prevent people from getting a gun to commit a crime of passion?

Some places yes, others no.

The_Squid · December 14, 2012

Making it harder for people to obtain guns do not reduce the violence either. Don't forget criminals don't care about any gun law and will obtain a gun one way or another.

Were these guns legally owned that this person used?

Stricter gun controls will make these killing sprees more rare, which would be a good thing, no?

It's been shown that guns in homes are more often used against family or an innocent person 43x more often than for self defense. Here is a site that shows scientific evidence of how guns are actually used. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use/index.html

Boges · December 14, 2012

Stricter gun controls will make these killing sprees more rare, which would be a good thing, no?

It's been shown that guns in homes are more often used against family or an innocent person 43x more often than for self defense. Here is a site that shows scientific evidence of how guns are actually used. http://www.hsph.harv...-use/index.html

Well that's not an apples to apples comparison. You could easily murder a former lived one via other means, conversely not ever having to use a gun for self defense doesn't mean owning it doesn't still provide that value.

Shady · December 14, 2012

Pretty much, except that the 2nd Amendment has been around from the very beginning, not the CHA.

Yep. And gun access was easier 20, 30, 50 years ago. But nobody was shooting up schools. Anyone who focuses on guns doesn't get the bug picture.

Boges · December 14, 2012

We see from newsworthy event in Toronto this summer that gun crime is more likely to happen because of socio-economic reason. Like drugs, gangs and poverty.

But it only creates this massive outcry for gun control when gun crime happens in somewhat affluent areas like, say, Tucson Arizona, Boulder Colorado or Newtown, Connecticut.

The_Squid · December 14, 2012

Well that's not an apples to apples comparison. You could easily murder a former lived one via other means, conversely not ever having to use a gun for self defense doesn't mean owning it doesn't still provide that value.

Yes, but you can't kill 30 people with a knife. You don't get that?

Stricter gun controls would make these less frequent and less deadly. No, it's not a cure-all, but it would help.

It's not just about guns.... What about mental health support funding? My guess is that might get better now that there is some form of universal coverage in the states, but I don't know for sure. Would be interesting to find out.

The_Squid · December 14, 2012

We see from newsworthy event in Toronto this summer that gun crime is more likely to happen because of socio-economic reason. Like drugs, gangs and poverty.

But it only creates this massive outcry for gun control when gun crime happens in somewhat affluent areas like, say, Tucson Arizona, Boulder Colorado or Newtown, Connecticut.

The shooting sprees have not been poor people and drug addicts from inner cities.... :rolleyes:

Boges · December 14, 2012

The shooting sprees have not been poor people and drug addicts from inner cities....

No, but that's where a good majority of the gun crime in both Canada and the US happen. Shooting Sprees like this are rare, that's why they're so shocking.

BC_chick · December 14, 2012

Strict Gun Laws in Toronto didn't prevent the Danzig Street Party shooting this summer.

There isn't a simple answer to preventing crime like this.

I can remember two mass shootings in Canada in all my life whereas the US is starting to trend toward 2 or 3 per year.

I realise their population is tenfold but the number of mass shootings is still disproportionate per capita.

December 14, 2012

I can remember two mass shootings in Canada in all my life whereas the US is starting to trend toward 2 or 3 per year.

I realise their population is tenfold but the number of mass shootings is still disproportionate per capita.

That's because incidents like this don't rise proportionately per capita. In the U.S. or Canada.

guyser · December 14, 2012

Didnt take long for some religious nutbars to blame the lack of God in classrooms for the reason this guy shot them up.

Apparently, and I paraphrase here, 'Why would God go where he is not wanted? "

Ahh the religious right never fails.

cybercoma · December 14, 2012

Yes, because it's the second amendment that makes people do this sort of thing.

It doesn't make people do this sort of thing, but it certainly gives them easy access to the tools they need to do it.

BC_chick · December 14, 2012

That's because incidents like this don't rise proportionately per capita. In the U.S. or Canada.

Whatever it is, something has gone terribly wrong within your borders.

cybercoma · December 14, 2012

Just because something does not provide an all-inclusive, ideal solution to a problem does not mean it's a useless, bad idea. But before anyone can say this happened because of easy access to guns, the whole story needs to be heard. Maybe he already had legal access to guns before he did this.

It's about the culture of violence that it feeds into.

cybercoma · December 14, 2012

Yep. And gun access was easier 20, 30, 50 years ago. But nobody was shooting up schools. Anyone who focuses on guns doesn't get the bug picture.

Yup. It was easier get guns then. Nothing else changed in that time. Culture is exactly the same as it was in the 50s.

Sleipnir · December 14, 2012

Don't forget criminals don't care about any gun law and will obtain a gun one way or another.

All criminals started off being innocent at one point

Edited December 14, 2012 by Sleipnir

guyser · December 14, 2012

Whatever it is, something has gone terribly wrong within your borders.

I think that is a grossly unfair post.

BC_chick · December 14, 2012

I think that is a grossly unfair post.

No it's not, they have more mass shootings per capita than any other civilized nation.

They want to deny it's their gun-laws, then it's somehting in the water I suppose because it doesn't seem to happen at this rate anywhere else.

cybercoma · December 14, 2012

No, but that's where a good majority of the gun crime in both Canada and the US happen. Shooting Sprees like this are rare, that's why they're so shocking.

So rare that

Three people were killed in a shooting spree at an Oregon mall a few days ago.

Twelve people were killed during the Batman premier.

Seven people were killed in that Sikh temple.

...and those are just the ones that immediately come to mind.

cybercoma · December 14, 2012

No it's not, they have more mass shootings per capita than any other civilized nation.

They want to deny it's their gun-laws, then it's somehting in the water I suppose because it doesn't seem to happen at this rate anywhere else.

It's the culture of violence that they have. Their gun laws only feed into it. What do you expect from a state that still murders its citizens as a criminal punishment?

guyser · December 14, 2012

No it's not, they have more mass shootings per capita than any other civilized nation.

Mexico ?

Black Dog · December 14, 2012

Yes, because it's the second amendment that makes people do this sort of thing.

The second amendment and the massive industry built around ensuring a law put in place in the age of cap and ball muskets as a check against tyranny now ensures mentally ill psychos have access to high-powered automatic weapons enables this sort of thing.

Seems that way. I heard even Obama shy'd away from discussing gun control laws today. I think it's too ingrained in their culture for them to consider major gun control reform. It's their second amendment! The most import thing is freedom of religion and speech, second; the right to own a gun. It seems silly to us looking on the outside because we don't have a gun culture. Almost as silly as government run healthcare probably seems to them.

Yup. A high number of gun deaths is not a bug in the system. It's a feature.

Wilber · December 14, 2012

I doubt this incident will change the opinions of people who support the second amendment. In fact I suspect it'll strengthen their resolve. They'll think perhaps this man could have been stopped if someone in that school was armed as well.

This is dragged out after every one of these shootings but it never happens. Our countries will never see eye to eye on this so I have come to the conclusion there is no point in even bringing it up.

BC_chick · December 14, 2012

Mexico ?

Mexico's development index is high but it's not considered a first-class country.

Also, I'm not talking about overall gun killings (including criminals killing each other) I'm talking about mass-shootings where a mentally ill person with access to guns kills innocent people for no reason.

That happens more per capita in the US than any other first-class nation.

Edited December 14, 2012 by BC_chick