Omar is back

[wyly]

what bs is this?

so not the case. a bunch of countries allow non citizens to serve in their forces.

true, France, Britain and the USA allow non-citizens in their military...I recall as a young kid a neighbour signed up in the US so he could go fight in Vietnam... Edited October 23, 2012 by wyly

[Guest American Woman]

true, France, Britain and the USA allow non-citizens in their military...I recall as a young kid a neighbour signed up in the US so he could go fight in Vietnam...

One has to be a permanent resident of the U.S. to sign up -

Enlistment into [...] any branch of the U.S. military, by citizens of countries other than the United States is limited to those foreign nationals who are legally residing in the United States and possess an Immigration and Naturalization Service Alien Registration Card (INS Form I-151/551 - commonly known as a "Green Card"). Applicants must be between 17 and 35; meet the mental, moral, and physical standards for enlistment; and must speak, read and write English fluently.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=167

[eyeball]

I understand exactly what you're saying - and I'm not impressed.

I think you're just unable to feel it - maybe you were born with the Met/Met variation of the COMT, the so-called altruistic gene, which means it's probably not your fault...I'll give you that much which is a lot more than you've ever given Omar Khadr.

[Guest American Woman]

I think you're just unable to feel it - maybe you were born with the Met/Met variation of the COMT, the so-called altruistic gene, which means it's probably not your fault...I'll give you that much which is a lot more than you've ever given Omar Khadr.

I have no idea what you're talking about; I only see that you are willing to be oh-so-altruistic with other people's money.

[eyeball]

I see you're wearing rose-coloured sun shades.

And for the record, again, I'm not willing to pay for the consequences our government's crimes because I didn't sanction them the way your ilk did. Why should I have to pay for something I clearly warned against and said I didn't want?

You think that's unselfish of me?

[g_bambino]

And for the record, again, I'm not willing to pay for the consequences our government's crimes because I didn't sanction them the way your ilk did.

Did you sanction the box of paper clips the supplies manager at the Department of Canadian Heritage's public relations office bought on 23 September of this year? Because, guess what; you paid for that, too.

[eyeball]

There's precedents for opting out of other government programs.

[g_bambino]

There's precedents for opting out of other government programs.

Not the paperclip programme. You better get out there and protest that trampling of your god-given right not to contribute to government paper clip purchases not sanctioned by you.

And don't forget fan-belts for Parks Canada trucks. Who knows how many have been bought without your sanction.

[eyeball]

Notwithstanding your ridicule, exemptions to participating in government programs do have a basis in legality and reality, especially when those programs are deemed to have infringed on an individual's sense of morality and ethics.

[g_bambino]

[E]xemptions to participating in government programs do have a basis in legality and reality, especially when those programs are deemed to have infringed on an individual's sense of morality and ethics.

Best of luck with that.

[Guest American Woman]

I see you're wearing rose-coloured sun shades.

Once again, I have no idea what you are talking about.

And for the record, again, I'm not willing to pay for the consequences our government's crimes because I didn't sanction them the way your ilk did. Why should I have to pay for something I clearly warned against and said I didn't want?

You're the one who thinks Khadr should get millions of dollars ... to then declare that others should have to pay what you think he is deserving of is ludicrous.

You think that's unselfish of me?

Quite the opposite, actually.

[GostHacked]

Did you sanction the box of paper clips the supplies manager at the Department of Canadian Heritage's public relations office bought on 23 September of this year? Because, guess what; you paid for that, too.

That's one low tactic to equate government's complicity in not supporting human rights to that of the cost of staples.

[g_bambino]

That's one low tactic to equate government's complicity in not supporting human rights to that of the cost of staples.

Good thing, then, that's not what it was doing!

[PIK]

Now we just have to wait to see what MP gives omar a jubilee medal. I will bet on a NDP MP doing it.

[g_bambino]

Now we just have to wait to see what MP gives omar a jubilee medal. I will bet on a NDP MP doing it.

The MP can only nominate someone for the medal. And the Letters Patent creating the medal set out the following criteria for elligibility:

3. (1) A person is eligible to be awarded the medal if the person

1. (a) is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada, not necessarily resident in Canada at the time of the awarding;
   
2. (b) has made a significant contribution to Canada or to a particular province, territory, region or community, or has made an achievement abroad that brings credit to Canada; and
   
3. (c) is alive on February 6, 2012, the sixtieth anniversary of Her Majesty’s accession to the throne.
   

Letters patent creating the Queen Elizabeth II's Diamond Jubilee Medal

Omar made a significant achievement abroad alright. Not sure how much credit it brought to Canada, though.

[Army Guy]

_{what bs is this?}

_{so not the case. a bunch of countries allow non citizens to serve in their forces.}

_{Thats not the context in which i was responding, you claimed Omar had every right to defend himself, as a canadain citizen , fighting for a terrorist group, agains't Coalition forces....While it is true any Canadian citizen may join any other nations military if accepted, however even that statement has limitations, that nation can not be at conflict with Canada at the time....the organization must be accepted as the nations defense forces....one can not join a terrorist org and take the fight again'st a nation and expect it to be legal....nor can one join a merc outfit, or a regular civilian and take part in hostilities....as they are illigal.}

_{Terrorist or terrorist groups....I don't think we have to cover this one it is well documented in canadian law...it is illigal period to be a terrorist or member of terrorist group, and take part in terrorist activities.}

_mercs

_{http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_ca_rule108}

_{Civilians (Art 1609 para g)}

_{http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/publications/oplaw-loiop/loac-ddca-2004/chap16-eng.asp}

_{And Art 302 para 2 Non Combatants.}

_{http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/publications/oplaw-loiop/loac-ddca-2004/chap03-eng.asp}

_{Indiscriminate Attacks such as laying mines.}

_{http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_ca_rule11}

_{Canada is also discussing the below statement ....}

_{The resolution states that any Canadian citizen, "whether by birth or by naturalized grant of Canadian citizenship or by claim of landed immigrant or refugee status" who "takes up arms against the Canadian Forces or the Forces of Canada’s Allies automatically invalidates his or her Canadian citizenship or claim" and "should be tried for high treason under the Canadian Criminal Code" if they return to Canada.}

_{http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/citizenship-gone-if-canadians-fight-against-countrys-soldiers-tory-convention-to-propose/article2040793}

[Guest American Woman]

Canada is also discussing the below statement ....

_{The resolution states that any Canadian citizen, "whether by birth or by naturalized grant of Canadian citizenship or by claim of landed immigrant or refugee status" who "takes up arms against the Canadian Forces or the Forces of Canada’s Allies automatically invalidates his or her Canadian citizenship or claim" and "should be tried for high treason under the Canadian Criminal Code" if they return to Canada.}

Sounds good to me.

[login]

_{what bs is this?}

_{so not the case. a bunch of countries allow non citizens to serve in their forces.}

_{Thats not the context in which i was responding, you claimed Omar had every right to defend himself, as a canadain citizen , fighting for a terrorist group, agains't Coalition forces....While it is true any Canadian citizen may join any other nations military if accepted,}

_{contradiction1}

also I said human has the right to defend themselves using reasonble force which in the event of an act endangering their life is justified to use lethal force as a legitimate defence, citizenship is a construction. Canadian citizenship law is fabricated, it is not consensual. Contracts are bilateral, unilateral imposition of citizenship is not moral.

_{that nation can not be at conflict with Canada}

_{false, he is a legitimate combatant,}

_{niether canada nor the us officially declared war!}

_{you don't know what the hell you are talking about.}

using your logic turkey is at war with syria right now

Edited October 25, 2012 by login

[eyeball]

Canada is also discussing the below statement ....

_{The resolution states that any Canadian citizen, "whether by birth or by naturalized grant of Canadian citizenship or by claim of landed immigrant or refugee status" who "takes up arms against the Canadian Forces or the Forces of Canada’s Allies automatically invalidates his or her Canadian citizenship or claim" and "should be tried for high treason under the Canadian Criminal Code" if they return to Canada.}

Sounds like a bunch of self-pitying self-serving sentimental horseshit given the circumstances driving the resolution.

Who we should really be after are politicians and sycophants who sell out our principles whilst wheeling and dealing with tyrants, despots and dictatorships.

[Fletch 27]

Sounds like a bunch of self-pitying self-serving sentimental horseshit given the circumstances driving the resolution.

Who we should really be after are politicians and sycophants who sell out our principles whilst wheeling and dealing with tyrants, despots and dictatorships.

I think we should protect our own first... From scum like the Khadrs..

The below is resounding with all Canadians,, dont get left off of the island!

_{The resolution states that any Canadian citizen, "whether by birth or by naturalized grant of Canadian citizenship or by claim of landed immigrant or refugee status" who "takes up arms against the Canadian Forces or the Forces of Canada’s Allies automatically invalidates his or her Canadian citizenship or claim" and "should be tried for high treason under the Canadian Criminal Code" if they return to Canada}

Edited October 25, 2012 by Fletch 27

[g_bambino]

Contracts are bilateral, unilateral imposition of citizenship is not moral.

What does morality have to do with anything? "Citizen" is a legal classification for a person; it is "imposed" only upon those born in the country; they are free to remove themselves from it, if they feel like doing so (eg. Lord Black). It is also a bilateral contract; there is a promise on the part of the citizen to obey the laws of the sovereign in turn for the sovereign's promise to abide by the laws of the constitution. This is illustrated most clearly in the Oath of Citizenship (containing, as it does, the Oath of Allegiance):

The Oath of Citizenship is today a legally binding oral and written contract intended to ensure that new Canadian citizens promise to obey the laws and customs of their new country, fulfil their duties as citizens, and recognize the authority of the monarch as the personification of the state and various entities and concepts.^[8][9]

Oath of Citizenship

The modern oath remains both fiduciary and reciprocal;^[9] mirroring citizens' oaths to the monarch,^[22] the sovereign takes the Coronation Oath, wherein he or she promises "to govern the Peoples of... Canada... according to their respective laws and customs."^[23] It has been said of this mutual verbal contract: "except through the person of the Queen, Canada cannot take an oath to Canadians in return. It doesn't exist in the sense that it can take an oath. It is fundamental to our tradition of law and freedom that the commitments made by the people are reciprocated by the state."

Oath of Allegiance

For those born in the country, their entry into the contract of citizenship is assumed.

[ed.: rm link]

Edited October 25, 2012 by g_bambino

[On Guard for Thee]

Sounds to me like a bunch of fucked up lawyers talking here. I know Americans are not the brightest people in the world, so let me put it very simply. If you go to other countries and start killing people, don't be so surprised if you get killed yourself. Omar was 15 years old. No, stay home and kill each other, you seem to do a lot of that. Keep it on the home turf.

[eyeball]

The resolution states that any Canadian citizen, "whether by birth or by naturalized grant of Canadian citizenship or by claim of landed immigrant or refugee status" who "takes up arms against the Canadian Forces or the Forces of Canada’s Allies automatically invalidates his or her Canadian citizenship or claim" and "should be tried for high treason under the Canadian Criminal Code" if they return to Canada

Great, I think we should have a resolution that precedes your's that states; when we create or help maintain tyranny in other people's countries that we should tried for crimes against humanity. Nothing invalidates our claims of being hard done by decades after the fact more thoroughly than sitting around decades later still wondering what went wrong.

Ignorance is no excuse.

Edited August 19, 2013 by eyeball

[PIK]

Wait till he is set frree and the city of TO embarresses the country by holding a hero's welcome for him. He will be on city council before to long.

[Black Dog]

Wait till he is set frree and the city of TO embarresses the country by holding a hero's welcome for him. He will be on city council before to long.

That ship sailed when the good burghers of T-Dot elected Rob Ford as mayor.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Black Dog