"the english are waking up!"

[Wild Bill]

You think the loss of the CFL is the only potential downside?

And you think the majority of Canadians would accept such a proposal even for a second?

Carry on, then.

The majority of Canadians are not rabid American haters, like some posters here I could mention. Most folks trying to pay mortgages, feed and cloth their kids and just survive in today's Canadian economy are much more pragmatic than someone like yourself might think.

Have you been in the cross-border traffic tie-ups? Do you depend on being able to buy disposable diapers at Topps in Niagara Falls NY?

Do you and your wife take turns in being downsized from your job, hoping it never happens to both of you at the same time?

If Quebec separated you might be surprised how fast a majority of Canadians might leap at the idea!

The only snag will be how America feels about it. The idea was broached before back in the 90's to an American politician who was up here for some function or another. He was taken by surprise and blurted out an answer which was probably much more truthful than it would have been if he had been prepared.

He said "I suppose it could happen, but how would we pay for all the welfare recipients?"

It's conceivable that the USA might turn us down. Much cheaper to buy what they need and leave Canada with the problems of its own making. After all, if we joined up it would not make sense for America to exploit what would then be part of itself.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Wild Bill

[PIK]

1st of all IMO separation by anyone will never happen. The media loves to keep this going, it sells papers, just like the raging savages in the ME, go nuts ,but make sure the media is there. And the fact the lawyers would bankrupted both canada and quebec. And IMO if it did happen it would take years if not decades to draw up a map.

[bleeding heart]

The majority of Canadians are not rabid American haters, like some posters here I could mention.

Sweet Godzilla on His throne, WB: that Canadians would not wish to become Americans does not translate into "rabid American haters."

????

Most folks trying to pay mortgages, feed and cloth their kids and just survive in today's Canadian economy are much more pragmatic than someone like yourself might think.

Are you really that unaware of the state of the American economy?

Do you and your wife take turns in being downsized from your job, hoping it never happens to both of you at the same time?

Are you really that unaware of the state of the American economy?

It's conceivable that the USA might turn us down.

Very conceivable; but it's moot, because Canada won't ask to join.

[jbg]

How is the west being systematically milked?

Well, equalization for one.

[g_bambino]

Well, equalization for one.

I don't understand how the equalisation system "systematically milks" the west. The inhabitants of the western provinces pay exactly the same amount towards the equalisation programme as do the people who live elsewhere in the country. If it is because the western provinces see no equalisation payments because they are "have" provinces, then aren't all "have not" provinces "systematically milking" the west?

[ed.: c/e]

Edited September 18, 2012 by g_bambino

[jacee]

Well, equalization for one.

Horse apples.

The oil boys are ripping us all off for billions in payoffs corporate subsidies, tax cuts, fed paid advertising and promotion, labour relocation, settlement and training etc etc.

Alberta is just a rich selfish whiner - at least as represented here.

[The_Squid]

Horse apples.

The oil boys are ripping us all off for billions in payoffs corporate subsidies, tax cuts, fed paid advertising and promotion, labour relocation, settlement and training etc etc.

Alberta is just a rich selfish whiner - at least as represented here.

Can you define what you mean by "the west"? Is BC included? Saskatchewan? Or are you only referring to Alberta?

[jacee]

The majority of Canadians are not rabid American haters, like some posters here I could mention. Most folks trying to pay mortgages, feed and cloth their kids and just survive in today's Canadian economy are much more pragmatic than someone like yourself might think.

Have you been in the cross-border traffic tie-ups? Do you depend on being able to buy disposable diapers at Topps in Niagara Falls NY?

Do you and your wife take turns in being downsized from your job, hoping it never happens to both of you at the same time?

If Quebec separated you might be surprised how fast a majority of Canadians might leap at the idea!

The only snag will be how America feels about it. The idea was broached before back in the 90's to an American politician who was up here for some function or another. He was taken by surprise and blurted out an answer which was probably much more truthful than it would have been if he had been prepared.

He said "I suppose it could happen, but how would we pay for all the welfare recipients?"

It's conceivable that the USA might turn us down. Much cheaper to buy what they need and leave Canada with the problems of its own making. After all, if we joined up it would not make sense for America to exploit what would then be part of itself.

I'm proposing that Ontario stay with Quebec and the Maritimes, and we cut the whiny west loose.

The chronic complaining about Quebec comes from the west. With them out of the picture, it's possible the rest of us could get along. We're all comfortably bilingual provinces and take pleasure and pride in it.

I don't like the ethnic prejudice that emanates from the west - as represented here - don't want to be associated with it.

We don't need to go to the US, except shopping!

Edited September 18, 2012 by jacee

[eyeball]

Can you define what you mean by "the west"? Is BC included? Saskatchewan? Or are you only referring to Alberta?

I'm pretty sure the Vancouver Island Liberation Organization would take a pretty dim view towards being automatically included.

[jacee]

1st of all IMO separation by anyone will never happen. The media loves to keep this going, it sells papers,

They do love to catastrophize.

just like the raging savages in the ME, go nuts ,but make sure the media is there.

?

And the fact the lawyers would bankrupted both canada and quebec.

We doneed no stinkin lawyers!

And IMO if it did happen it would take years if not decades to draw up a map.

We have borders.

East-West.

Easy.

[jacee]

I'm pretty sure the Vancouver Island Liberation Organization would take a pretty dim view towards being automatically included.

Let them go free!

Let everyone go free, as they wish.

Just let it go.

It's not worth the bickering.

Edited September 18, 2012 by jacee

[jacee]

Can you define what you mean by "the west"? Is BC included? Saskatchewan? Or are you only referring to Alberta?

Let them all go free, or join whom they please!

Let's just agree to disagree ... and be civil about it.

We tried ... it isn't working.

We can still be friends.

Just not dependent on each other.

Pssst! Alberta!

We're shipping Harper back! :lol:

He still thinks he's our DICKtater (he's half right) so you'll have to tell him he's now just your slave.

Edited September 18, 2012 by jacee

[Army Guy]

Wild Bill makes a some good pionts, Canada's finicial situation is going to take a major hit. Assuming that the rest of Canada stays together, and all the Quebec questions get answered by diplomatic means. ( if they don't then our money sit is going to be in the crapper) We are still not going to have the postion we once had, major changes will have to be done to accomadate what we enjoy right now.

Just saying nothing will change, we will go on without Quebec like we do today is just sticking your head in the sand. I think Bill is right joining the US might not seem that bad of an idea after some time has passed.

[Smallc]

Wild Bill makes a some good pionts, Canada's financial situation is going to take a major hit.

Why? Our GDP per capita would actually increase...not that I ever endorse the idea of separation.

[eyeball]

...not that I ever endorse the idea of separation.

Every party needs a pooper.

[jacee]

Wild Bill makes a some good pionts, Canada's finicial situation is going to take a major hit. Assuming that the rest of Canada stays together, and all the Quebec questions get answered by diplomatic means. ( if they don't then our money sit is going to be in the crapper) We are still not going to have the postion we once had, major changes will have to be done to accomadate what we enjoy right now.

Just saying nothing will change, we will go on without Quebec like we do today is just sticking your head in the sand. I think Bill is right joining the US might not seem that bad of an idea after some time has passed.

Any 'Canadian' who wants to is free to join the US right now!

Seriously folks, East-West split makes so much more sense.

[Army Guy]

Why? Our GDP per capita would actually increase...not that I ever endorse the idea of separation.

Your assuming Quebec is producing exactly the same amount as it's capita, your also assuming everything is going to be the same the day after, and everyone is just going to wake up the next day hoist the new flags and carry on, but what if there is a problem, what if Canada does not want Quebec using our currency, or what if there is a problem with our new borders, nobody has even said what they are yet, everyone assumes everything is going to be OK and yet can anyone name when a separation went OK......but what about the other things such as the drop in our dollar, Quebec even talks about separation our dollar drops, one can only imigine if it did separate what effects it would have. And if the separation goes rough, meaning force is required for some reason, then would our dollar bottom out, so would our trade, not many countries interested in trading with a nation in conflict or troubles...

[Army Guy]

Any 'Canadian' who wants to is free to join the US right now!

Seriously folks, East-West split makes so much more sense.

Very few Canadians want to separate, However may be forced to in order to maintain our current standard of living. But everything will change....And Joining the US is one option. You'll have to explain to me how you'll get Quebec to join the eastern half, as i don't think there is a way in hell to do that, making this more of a multi break thing.

[Smallc]

Your assuming Quebec is producing exactly the same amount as it's capita,

[Wild Bill]

I'm proposing that Ontario stay with Quebec and the Maritimes, and we cut the whiny west loose.

The chronic complaining about Quebec comes from the west. With them out of the picture, it's possible the rest of us could get along. We're all comfortably bilingual provinces and take pleasure and pride in it.

I don't like the ethnic prejudice that emanates from the west - as represented here - don't want to be associated with it.

We don't need to go to the US, except shopping!

You always talk from the heart, jaycee. Never from the head.

Right now Albert's oil money is the only thing keeping us afloat! Ontario is in a deep economic depression. Manufacturing is dead and plant closures abound.

Factory workers in their 50's have been slowly exhausting their EI benefits and have finished those training courses to make a guy who operated a rolling machine become a heating and air conditioning technician, only to find there are already a surplus of such technicians out there.

So how about answering a practical question for once, jaycee. After your proposed east/west split, where will we work? How are we gonna pay the mortgage and feed our kids?

Look around you right now! Just how well are we doing under the status quo? Which way is the trend going?

It was only a year or two ago that we were told Ontario was going to get rich making windmills!

How's that working out?

[Smallc]

Right now Albert's oil money is the only thing keeping us afloat!

No, that's an argument from the heart, since it isn't based on any kind of economic data.

[Wild Bill]

No, that's an argument from the heart, since it isn't based on any kind of economic data.

You may be technically right, Smallc. Perhaps I should have said "one of the things".

I am sure that most would agree that it is no longer Ontario's economy that keeps Canada afloat!

My point that if we separated in an east/west split would HURT economically still stands!

[Smallc]

My point that if we separated in an east/west split would HURT economically still stands!

Probably...but not because of Ontario. Ontario is about break even on a Canadian stage now. It would be on it's own. Everything to the east is below break even.

[Wild Bill]

Probably...but not because of Ontario. Ontario is about break even on a Canadian stage now. It would be on it's own. Everything to the east is below break even.

I'm not so sure about Ontario being at break even, Smallc. Remember, I live here. From my perspective the province is hurting very badly economically.

Perhaps my perception is coloured by living in Hamilton, which has been particularly hard hit by steel plant closings and that of all the associated industries with that.

There's also Niagara area and Windsor that are sinking fast.

Back in the spring I took a job for a couple of months at a call centre, phoning businesses around Ontario to try to get them to sponsor Shriners Circus tickets and other charity stuff. The poor response and the number of sob stories I got from those I phoned was literally frightening!

This wasn't just lies to get rid of a charity call. The computer showed the history of most calls over the past few years. Companies gave MUCH more in past years! It would appear that this year is far worse than previous.

Plus, we are now officially a have-not province. Not surprising, with the high unemployment. Hell, there's stiff competition between older factory workers for jobs as greeters at WalMart! And I couldn't begin to count the number of ex-factory guys I meet at box stores like Home Depot and Lowes. Before you say that at least they've found a job remember that they are now making perhaps a third of their former income.

The only area I hear positive things from is Northern Ontario, from the mines and such.

So I dunno, Smallc. It's hard to get a clear official picture. It's not as if policians want bad news to be easily heard. Still, from those areas I CAN get some info it's not looking very healthy in Ontario today.

If Quebec were to separate and joining America was an option, I think a strong majority of Ontario would go for it!

You can't keep your house and feed your kids with patriotism.

[guyser]

...And Joining the US is one option. .

No it is not.