Your Toronto Blue Jays

Big Guy · October 24, 2015

Anybody want to purchase tickets to the World Series between Blue Jays and Mets?

Moonlight Graham · October 25, 2015

It was not very well played IMO, not by the Jays. More accurately, poorly managed.

The 8/9 innings were an example of how not to manage a close playoff game. The Royals scored from first base on a single by being bold, and the Jays were every fortunate that Osuna did not get completely crushed in that situation.

Meanwhile, we get runners first and third, nobody out with a blazing fast runner on third and...... Gibbons sits on his hands and watches the season dribble away. You just absolutely have to score a run in that situation, and better managed teams do just that. Or.... shorten up your swing and get a ball on the gropund, give Pompey a chance to score. Even if Navarro fails and the out is made at home, Pillar would be third with one out. Next up, Revere is swinging for the fences to strike out- and opposing pitchers get him out every time with a dirt ball.

The 8th inning was played horribly by the Jays, and the 9th inning was managed horribly by them (except for pinch-running with Pompey). Osuna blew it. He's the closer, he has filthy stuff, but he gave up the go-ahead run on 2 hits and a walk in just 1.0 innings pitched. Unacceptable. Bautista should have worried less about the guy at 1st going to 2nd than the lead runner headed to 3rd, that's his priority, and Bautista didn't even look to where he was throwing (though he was trying to get rid of the ball quickly to prevent the runner going to 2nd), but hard to blame him since he was responsible for all the Jays runs that game.

You're right, in the 9th you HAVE to get the ball in play. No outs and a blazing-fast runner as the tying run on 3rd, he needs to score. They put Navarro in to pinch-hit, but they should have brought in a guy who could bunt, although Navarro can put the ball in play very well so that's obviously what Gibbons was thinking. Same with Revere, an excellent guy at putting ball in play, very few K's, but geez bunt!! Like you said, if Pompey didn't score then you still have the runner behind him moved over to 3rd. Royals' Davis is possibly the sickest pitcher in the game, 0.94 ERA this year, 1.00 ERA last year, tons of K's, the odds of hitting the ball off him is extremely slim, Revere was 0-6 career against him. Oh well, credit to Davis for getting the 3 K's he needed. Small ball isn't the Jays' game anyways lol.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Moonlight Graham

bush_cheney2004 · October 25, 2015

Nobody expected Cain to try and score from first on a single with no outs, so Bautista did the expected thing, even if Cain did it against Houston.

Can't fault him for that in hindsight.

Boges · October 25, 2015

Jays couldn't hit with runners in scoring position. That was the true difference in the game. Revere hits a double in the first and they don't score? Only Bautista was clutch.

Big Guy · October 25, 2015

Unfortunately for Jays fans, the better team won and they played better. That is the way it should be.

Boges · October 29, 2015

Looks like AA is out.

Not surprising when you consider they brought in a new president that probably didn't want AA to have full control of baseball decision. Even if they offered AA more money, he'd probably see it as a demotion.

Can't see Gibby surviving this.

I've heard that the new President Mark Shapiro actually scolded AA for giving up so many prospect. If that's the case, I can't see the new guy selling the farm to try and keep David Price.

Michael Hardner · October 29, 2015

?

Sorry. How did this happen ? They had an overachiever, and brought in a boss he didn't like ? Is that it ?

Is this just the final act in another Shakespearean Toronto flame out ?

Boges · October 29, 2015

?

Sorry. How did this happen ? They had an overachiever, and brought in a boss he didn't like ? Is that it ?

Is this just the final act in another Shakespearean Toronto flame out ?

Paul Beeston, the president, was on the way out. They actually tried to replace him last year with Baltimore's GM but the Oriole owner wouldn't let him out of his contract with out the Jays giving up an important player.

So Beeston had to stay an extra year but the search was on for a new President. Beeston only took care of the business end and left the baseball stuff up to AA.

During the summer Rogers hired the former Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro as President and CEO. We don't know his plans for the team but it's obvious he wouldn't just cede 100% of baseballs decision up to AA.

A contract extension was offered to AA but reports are he turned it down.

I heard on the radio this morning that Shapiro actually scolded AA for giving up so many prospects in the lead up to the trade deadline.

I'm not panicking like some Bandwagon fans are. AA has provided this team a great base to work on. We'll see what the new management team can do to build on what he did.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Boges

overthere · October 29, 2015

I am going to put it out there that they disagreed about money and term for AA. He won't have trouble finding a job, and he knows that Rogers won't open their wallets much wider for him to buy free agents. Gibbons will have trouble finding a job.

Shapiro is right in that AA emptied the larder in getting the team into the playoffs. The Jays have no pitching at any level really including MLB level, some free agents they will have to offer the moon to keep, no pitching prospects left and a corporate owner that is not in love with much except the bottom line. Do they want to p[ay Price $200 million? Do they want to pay Estrada perhaps $75 million after the first decent season in his career?

AA made a deal with the devil in a one shot effort to win it all and came up just short. The new GM has few options- one only really. He'll have to trade for pitching. Luckily, he has some good pieces that he can likely afford to move- the bats in the middle of the order.

overthere · October 30, 2015

I am wrong about term and money.

It was about Shapiro.

AA has had a free hand with baseball decisions for years, Beerton has been on cruise control for years and occasionally helped him out dealing with the suits at Rogers.

Now Shapiro enters the scene, is an alpha type, and hands AA a new job description along with an offer of money and term. But the new contract starts and ends with 'Shapiro has first and last call on everything'. The golden leash around AAs neck went from virtual to pretty snug.

Exit AA, His phone is ringing from other organizations anyway.........

Now the heat is really on Shapiro. They will give him a pass on being responsible for losing a very popular manager. But only if Shapiro puts lots of bums in seats next year. And that means winning.

Boges · November 1, 2015

Rogers can't blame Shapiro. They brought him in to change the culture. No one could have predicted AA's firesale of prospects would have been as successful as it was.

This was going to happen regardless once Shapiro was hired.

overthere · November 1, 2015

Rogers can't blame Shapiro. They brought him in to change the culture. No one could have predicted AA's firesale of prospects would have been as successful as it was.

This was going to happen regardless once Shapiro was hired.

I don't think Rogers does blame Shapiro, since they just came out with statements that they had offered AA a generous contract with term.

But AA knows that Shapiro and Beeston are very different animals. there is a new sheriff, AA would actually now have a boss, and that his own value will never be higher in the GM market.

Just as free agents like to test the waters, so do managers. I think they all want jobs like Shapiros, which are far less public and much more secure.

It is still a kick in the nuts for Shapiro. He is under the gun right now despite surprisingly inheriting a very different situation than that which he was hired for in August. Expectations are much much higher now, and today si his official first day of work.

If the Jays had gone on to flop as was their norm in the regular season, he could just not hire AA or Gibbons and nobody would hardly notice much less give a shit. Now there are plenty of people watching, and many of them think he is off on the wrong foot.

Do you see Gibbons surviving this process? I don't.

Boges · November 2, 2015

I don't think Rogers does blame Shapiro, since they just came out with statements that they had offered AA a generous contract with term.

But AA knows that Shapiro and Beeston are very different animals. there is a new sheriff, AA would actually now have a boss, and that his own value will never be higher in the GM market.

Just as free agents like to test the waters, so do managers. I think they all want jobs like Shapiros, which are far less public and much more secure.

It is still a kick in the nuts for Shapiro. He is under the gun right now despite surprisingly inheriting a very different situation than that which he was hired for in August. Expectations are much much higher now, and today si his official first day of work.

If the Jays had gone on to flop as was their norm in the regular season, he could just not hire AA or Gibbons and nobody would hardly notice much less give a shit. Now there are plenty of people watching, and many of them think he is off on the wrong foot.

Do you see Gibbons surviving this process? I don't.

If it's the case that Shapiro does experience pressure, it's from uninformed bandwagon fans that don't realize the reality of the situation.

A majority of this pitching staff is not under contract for the coming season and AA gave away much of the farm team to bolster the lineup for a run in 2015. If, for whatever reason, Shapiro can't rebuild the pitching staff in a single off season, the fans that see this move as same old Rogers and Blue Jays should blame AA and not Shapiro. Just as much as AA should receive credit for having a pretty strong lineup of everyday players under contract and not Shapiro.

AA was not fired and he didn't quit. His job description changed and he decided to see if he could get a better gig elsewhere. Which, might I add, is not a guarantee. There are only 29 of these jobs left and currently none are vacant.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Boges

Boges · November 2, 2015

So Apparently Gibby will be back next year as per Shapiro.

overthere · November 3, 2015

So Apparently Gibby will be back next year as per Shapiro.

Baffling, but that can change in a heartbeat.....

The interim manager is just that, and the new guy when found may fire Gibbons and bring in his own man. That gives Shapiro an out, since getting rid of both AA and Gibbons in his first 48 hours on the clock might have been a bit much.

The last two playoff series confirmed that Gibby is not up for the task of using the tools that he has in hand.

Yost showed him how it is done. IMO an essential element is pressure, as in putting pressure on teams to make good pays to get you out. Gibby does not gamble much, or rather gambles on the wrong horse. You'll know the culture has changed when we see Bautista or Encarnation laying down a squeeze to win a game. KC wouldn't think twice about getting Cain or Hosmer to do just that. It would never cross Gibbons mind.

What AA didn't get was the control he had with a disinterested Beeston nominally his boss. He will have trouble finding that situation again anywhere in baseball. Shapiro told him that he intended to be involved in personnel, which Beeston was not..Did I hear correctly that the term was actually only 2 years? That is a square kick in the sack to AA if true. Five is more common, unless Shapiro and Rogers are wondering if 3 months of success vs a few years of futility was worth only 2 years.

The Jays are also not going to repeat unless they buy and trade for pitching, and lots of it. Will Rogers open their wallets and increase their payroll for pitching? Is Estrada worth monster money, knowing that he is 32 and has had exactly one very good season preceded by several mediocre years? Which of their roster players can they give up to trade hitting for pitching?

Boges · November 6, 2015

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-extend-qualifying-offer-to-estrada/

Jays extended a $15.8 million qualifying offer to Marco Estrada today.

So I guess they're serious about keeping him. If he gets more from another club the Jays get a draft pick from that team.

I guess this is good news. It means Shapiro and management are serious about keeping and/or looking for starting pitching help.

overthere · November 6, 2015

It doesn't mean they are serious about keeping him, they are just trying to get something anything back if he leaves, which he almost certainly will. They'll get a draft pick back.

Why would Estrada- at his age and with his record- take a one year contract when he knows he will get certainly get multi year offers for more total money?

and Term is big for players his age.......and so is total bucks because this could well be his last contract.

Boges · November 13, 2015

I'm hearing that the Jays a really close to inking Estrada for 2 years $26 million. I guess that's more than I would have done, but if he's a one hit wonder they'll only have an extra year of dead money.

overthere · November 13, 2015

I'm surprised if he signs for so little term and cash.

Pitchers are always overpaid in free agency , and he knows the Jays are absolutely desperate for pitching

overthere · November 20, 2015

colour me surprised.

rotation so far is Stroman, Dickey, Estrada. If they could add an ace (like Price which is very unlikely) plus another average pitcher, they'd be OK. They also need at least two more upgrades to the bullpen.

And a new GM.

I still think they need to and will trade somebody like EE or Bautista for pitching. They need to do it soon though, their value drops rapidly as they enter the last years of their bargain basement contracts. They could manage without one of those bats , but would miss Bautista in the field. It's been great EE.....

Boges · November 21, 2015

Jeff Blair on Sportsnet mocks the idea that Bautista would snag a pitcher. With only a year left I doubt he can get anything more than an average pitcher.

There's a rumour that Cleveland would part with a quality arm for an outfielder like Revere. Saunders should be back and Pompey should be on the team again.

Last night the Jays traded Hendricks to the A's for starter Jessie Chavez.

His numbers this year were average to bad, but he was on a really bad team. In 2014 his numbers were a lot better.

Sad to see Hendricks go, he was solid middle relief this year but you can't build a team on the Bullpen.

overthere · November 21, 2015

You cant build a team on the bullpen? Tell that to Kansas City!

Chavez is a depth guy for the starting rotation, I reckon Shapiro is hoping he is another Estrada, a late bloomer. The Jays only get one year before free agency out of Chavez vs a few from Hendriks, so Shapiro is playing for next year, not the future.

Pompey brings some skills, but like Goins and Pillar did this year has to bat his way into a starting position.

What do you think the Jays do with the Goins/Travis situation?

What encourages me is that the Jays actually have some viable depth in position players, a few options that could potentially bring them pitching.

2nd base, left field, right field, first base, SS, DH all have decent options.

Boges · November 21, 2015

When I say you don't build for the bullpen, don't trade or give FA money to a reliever. See BJ Ryan and Sergio Santos.

I think the fact that Travis just had surgery to deal with some weird rare condition and will be out for up to 5 months kind of puts the breaks on trading Tulo.

A healthy Travis would appear to be better than Goins, but I don't want to bank on that. I'd keep all 3.

Same for Saunders. We really don't know what he can do yet, so I'd only trade Revere for top of the rotation talent.

overthere · November 21, 2015

Yeah probably best to wait and see with Travis. He was (in a small sample size) a better hitter than Goins, but not a better fielder. We have to be careful not to overvalue Travis, he has played about 1/3 of one season in MLB.