Cheney cancels speech in Canada due to safety concerns ‎

[Guest American Woman]

Yes Canada did go to war in Afghanistan.

Canada was also involved in the war in Iraq, just on the hush-hush. No matter what one thinks of Cheney, at least he was upfront about what he thought and what he did. Can's say the same for Chretien. I just don't understand why Canadians would be more upset over what Cheney did than what their own government did - but the focus always seems to be on the U.S. Guess it's easier to criticize others and pretend all's right within. This thread is a perfect example. Even as some admit that there are security concerns for Cheney speaking in Canada, the trend among several here seems to be to focus on Canada as some sort of Camelot while criticizing - making fun of - Cheney for his decision.

I feel there are enough legitimate reasons to criticize Cheney; I don't have to invent them where they don't exist. I also feel that the problem of shutting speakers down in Canada might be of some concern to these Canadians, but again, Canada is 'oh-so-safe,' and pushing that notion seems to take presidence over concern for the protesters shutting down voices they personally don't want to hear - resulting in a loss of opportunity for those who do.

I know, I know. You agree with me - as you agree with how hilarious it is that Cheney "cannot handle [you] Canadians," which really sounds rather ignorant under the circumstances. As I said, it took police in riot gear several hours to "handle [you] Canadians" last time Cheney spoke in Canada.

Edited March 23, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

No different than Nickleback getting booed off stage, really.

I think people might have a bit more to gain from hearing Cheney speak, for having the opportunity to question his policies, than from hearing a Nickleback concert. That you would compare the two is a bit mind boggling.

[dre]

I think people might have a bit more to gain from hearing Cheney speak, for having the opportunity to question his policies, than from hearing a Nickleback concert. That you would compare the two is a bit mind boggling.

But I wasnt comparing the value of those two things, I was comparing the publics reaction, so you let your mind get boggled for nothing.

[GostHacked]

Canada was also involved in the war in Iraq, just on the hush-hush.

It's possible, but I doubt it. Some Canadians did go into Iraq, because of the exchage program going on at that time between the US and Canada. Those Canadian servicemen had the option to come home, or go into Iraq.

If you want a good book on Canada's shady past, I do suggest reading 'Imperialist Canada' by Todd Gordon.

[Moonlight Graham]

No matter what one thinks of Cheney, at least he was upfront about what he thought and what he did.

Cheney wasn't upfront at all! Crown that idiot for being one of the all-time lying, deceptive, & crooked politicians in the history of liberal democracies. Everyday it was more BS, and he'll keep it up to his grave.

Can's say the same for Chretien. I just don't understand why Canadians would be more upset over what Cheney did than what their own government did - but the focus always seems to be on the U.S. Guess it's easier to criticize others and pretend all's right within.

Chretien was a liar and an arrogant crook throughout his time as PM. The reason Canadians are more upset about Cheney over Chretien is how many more people Cheney killed as a result of his policies. Chretien is no perfect saint re: Iraq, but we don't really know the details of what, if any, covert support he provided the US. Yes the Chretien gov should be investigated 100%.

I don't apologize for going after Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and co. far more vigorously. Your government LIED to my government re: intelligence, and every other gov in the world in trying to build their war case and to get Canada & everyone else on-board. That should be a massive crime in itself. The US is lucky that Canada didn't fully join the coalition and many Cnd soldiers didn't die over the lies, or there would be hell to pay in Cnd/US relations. Bush/Cheney/Rummy etc. should be in The Hague, rotting. I've always stated that one of the biggest travesties of the Iraq war is that none of the key perpetrators were held legally accountable, and no new significant laws/procedures were put in place in the US to prevent such a monstrous deception from happening again. Iraq 2 could happen tomorrow, and could even happen with Iran.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[bush_cheney2004]

Chretien was a liar and an arrogant crook throughout his time as PM. The reason Canadians are more upset about Cheney over Chretien is how many more people Cheney killed as a result of his policies. Chretien is no perfect saint re: Iraq, but we don't really know the details of what, if any, covert support he provided the US. Yes the Chretien gov should be investigated 100%.

So why hasn't PM Chretien been arrested yet?

I don't apologize for going after Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and co. far more vigorously. Your government LIED to my government re: intelligence, and every other gov in the world in trying to build their war case and to get Canada & everyone else on-board. That should be a massive crime in itself.

It's not....lying is not a crime. Eisenhower lied to the Germans before D-Day too.

The US is lucky that Canada didn't fully join the coalition and many Cnd soldiers didn't die over the lies, or there would be hell to pay in Cnd/US relations.

Hell to pay? You mean no more Canadian TV?

Bush/Cheney/Rummy etc. should be in The Hague, rotting. I've always stated that one of the biggest travesties of the Iraq war is that none of the key perpetrators were held legally accountable, and no new significant laws/procedures were put in place in the US to prevent such a monstrous deception from happening again. Iraq 2 could happen tomorrow, and could even happen with Iran.

The USA never ratified the treaty, but Canada did. And Chretien the war criminal remains a free man, just like Cheney.

[Guest American Woman]

Cheney wasn't upfront at all! Crown that idiot for being one of the all-time lying, deceptive, & crooked politicians in the history of liberal democracies. Everyday it was more BS, and he'll keep it up to his grave.

I always knew exactly who he was and what he was doing.

Chretien was a liar and an arrogant crook throughout his time as PM. The reason Canadians are more upset about Cheney over Chretien is how many more people Cheney killed as a result of his policies. Chretien is no perfect saint re: Iraq, but we don't really know the details of what, if any, covert support he provided the US. Yes the Chretien gov should be investigated 100%.

I would think there would be a lot of anger because you don't know. That was my point. However, there seems to be no question that Canada was pledging support as the public was being told Canada was not going to be involved. Holier-than-thou while lying, and so many still believe it. And I truly doubt why that's the reason so many Canadians are more upset about Cheney over Chretien - we sure didn't see that kind of "upset" when Iraqis were dying at Saddam's hands.

I don't apologize for going after Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and co. far more vigorously.

I know you don't, and that's what really has me puzzled.

Your government LIED to my government re: intelligence, and every other gov in the world in trying to build their war case and to get Canada & everyone else on-board.

Oh, puleeze. Your government knew that the UN wasn't sanctioning the war. Your government knew all it needed to know. I would be embarrassed to use that excuse if I were a Canadian. Chretien was publicly all about criticizing the U.S. - and now you want me to believe that Canada's involvement was because it believed Bush-Cheney et al? My God. You all talked about how stupid the American public was for believing the WMD claims - and now you say the Canadian government was taken in by it?? It's exactly this type of mindset that I don't understand at all - except it allows you to keep up the pretense of the moral high road.

That should be a massive crime in itself. The US is lucky that Canada didn't fully join the coalition and many Cnd soldiers didn't die over the lies, or there would be hell to pay in Cnd/US relations.

You can't be serious. Your false bravado aside, Canada does whatever Canada needs to do - for Canada. That's why Canada was involved - and your government was in the U.S. talking up how Canada was more involved than most in the coalition of the willing when contract time came along. You have no moral high road - and as long as all of your energy is focused on the U.S., the more your government can get away with.

Bush/Cheney/Rummy etc. should be in The Hague, rotting. I've always stated that one of the biggest travesties of the Iraq war is that none of the key perpetrators were held legally accountable, and no new significant laws/procedures were put in place in the US to prevent such a monstrous deception from happening again. Iraq 2 could happen tomorrow, and could even happen with Iran

I notice how you are suddenly focused all on Iraq now, while the previous comments were about Iraq and Afghanistan. This is just another way of focusing on the U.S. and not holding your own country to the same accountability. Switch the talk to Iraq, and Canada and Afghanistan are conveniently forgotten.

Since you are so concerned about Bush/Cheney/Rummy {sic} getting their comeuppance, you must be thrilled that Saddam is dead. You do realize many, many Iraqis were dying at his hand, right? Those deaths are just as upsetting, right?

At any rate, I'll start having respect for all the outrage over the U.S. when y'all start holding your own country, your own government, to the same accountability - and when the upset masses are just as upset over deaths that have nothing to do with the U.S.; and while you're at it, you might want to try holding your commonwealth nations to the same standards as the U.S. - and that includes the nation that provides your head of state.

[eyeball]

At any rate, I'll start having respect for all the outrage over the U.S. when y'all start holding your own country, your own government, to the same accountability -

I agreed with pretty much everything else you said but I call bullshit on this. If planes slammed into the CN Tower and the Parliament Buildings tomorrow and it was suggested we had it coming just like you did on 9/11 for the same reasons you'd get all noble and pissy at the thought of us being compared to you.

[dre]

At any rate, I'll start having respect for all the outrage over the U.S. when y'all start holding your own country, your own government, to the same accountability

Lots of Canadians hold their government accountable for all the stupid shit it does. Just like lots of Americans do. The problem is that unfortunately here in Canada, much like in the United States, the people who have realized its not sustainable to police the world with borrowed money, and fight elective wars ever 3 years are still a minority.

I dont know what you expect really. I dont know much about Canadas involvement in Iraq, but you talk about so often that we clearly must have been major players over there. If thats the case I fully support you in this. Lets FROG MARCH Chretien and others in front of public tribunals, shake that tree good and hard and toss them in prison if they lied us into war.

Round em up! I might even subscribe to cable TV again if we can get that happening

Edited March 24, 2012 by dre

[stopstaaron]

AW & BC get so riled LOL

Canadas involvement in Iraq was minimal. We helped at the start and that was mostly it. AW you make it sound like we were all in.

Which is a lie. We helped because we are part of NATO and your biggest trading partner and neighbour not because we believed

Saddam had WMDs. And don't you dare pretend it was about Saddam killing his people. Thats not why you invaded Iraq

[stopstaaron]

Lots of Canadians hold their government accountable for all the stupid shit it does. Just like lots of Americans do. The problem is that unfortunately here in Canada, much like in the United States, the people who have realized its not sustainable to police the world with borrowed money, and fight elective wars ever 3 years are still a minority.

I dont know what you expect really. I dont know much about Canadas involvement in Iraq, but you talk about so often that we clearly must have been major players over there. If thats the case I fully support you in this. Lets FROG MARCH Chretien and others in front of public tribunals, shake that tree good and hard and toss them in prison if they lied us into war.

Round em up! I might even subscribe to cable TV again if we can get that happening

This is what we did to help the US

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8110

contrary to what AW claims, we helped at the start and that was it

[Guest Derek L]

It's possible, but I doubt it. Some Canadians did go into Iraq, because of the exchage program going on at that time between the US and Canada. Those Canadian servicemen had the option to come home, or go into Iraq.

If you want a good book on Canada's shady past, I do suggest reading 'Imperialist Canada' by Todd Gordon.

Some Canadians? I guess you could say that……….Our current CDS was more than just “along for the ride” though………Ole Walt has quite the “record” and in turn, respect from the troops and his leadership style was more “leading from the front” then other CDS past, whom appeared to rely more on “witty sound bites” and being a political eunuch.

[stopstaaron]

Some Canadians? I guess you could say that……….Our current CDS was more than just “along for the ride” though………Ole Walt has

quite the “record” and in turn, respect from the troops and his leadership style was more “leading from the front” then other CDS past, whom appeared to rely more on “witty sound bites” and being a political eunuch.

35 canadian ground troops according to the link i posted which is the link AW and BC go by

[bush_cheney2004]

Lets FROG MARCH Chretien and others in front of public tribunals, shake that tree good and hard and toss them in prison if they lied us into war.

War criminal Chretien earned his "FROG MARCH" in NATO's Operation Allied Force against Serbia in 1999. I guess lies about human rights are more popular than lies about WMD in Canada.

[stopstaaron]

War criminal Chretien earned his "FROG MARCH" in NATO's Operation Allied Force against Serbia in 1999. I guess lies about human rights are more popular than lies about WMD in Canada.

Jesus christ Chretien a war criminal?! hes a lot of things but a war criminal he is not

[bush_cheney2004]

Jesus christ Chretien a war criminal?! hes a lot of things but a war criminal he is not

He's as much a "war criminal" as Dick Cheney. Arrest him at once and send him to The Hague for trial.

[Guest Derek L]

35 canadian ground troops according to the link i posted which is the link AW and BC go by

General Natynczyk was the deputy Commander of III Corps……..Second in command of over 30k troops…….hardly something to sneeze at………..And Canadian ships and Auroras took part in Operation Apollo, in the Persian Gulf, concurrently with Operation Iraqi Freedom……..hardly a fluke.

[dre]

AW & BC get so riled LOL

Canadas involvement in Iraq was minimal. We helped at the start and that was mostly it. AW you make it sound like we were all in.

Which is a lie. We helped because we are part of NATO and your biggest trading partner and neighbour not because we believed

Saddam had WMDs. And don't you dare pretend it was about Saddam killing his people. Thats not why you invaded Iraq

AW & BC get so riled LOL

Its the CDS... Canada Derangement Syndrome. Believe or not, despite the fact that very few Americans even give Canada a second thought, and could care less about what Canadians do or think, there is a miniscule percentage of the US population that are actually EXTREMELY concerned about it.

I mean... these are Americans that spend a considerable percentage of their lives trolling forums about Canadian politics. Driven. Dedicated. Focused.... Ever watchfull, and ever vigilante. Ready to answer the call if some smug Canadian critisizes anything about the US, or GHASP: uses American statistics as part of an argument!

Somebody has to watch that northern border, and with major conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan tying up large ammounts of resources... AW, and BC were all they could spare

[dre]

This is what we did to help the US

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8110

contrary to what AW claims, we helped at the start and that was it

I dunno what we did. But it wouldnt suprise me if it was stupid.

[stopstaaron]

General Natynczyk was the deputy Commander of III Corps……..Second in command of over 30k troops…….hardly something to sneeze at………..And Canadian ships and Auroras took part in Operation Apollo, in the Persian Gulf, concurrently with Operation Iraqi Freedom……..hardly a fluke.

true but its not like we did more than brits or aussies or americans

we did all we could afterall we were in Afghanistan

[dre]

He's as much a "war criminal" as Dick Cheney. Arrest him at once and send him to The Hague for trial.

Ya know... we could each cut our defecit by couple thousand bux if we put them on the same flight and went halfers.

[stopstaaron]

Its the CDS... Canada Derangement Syndrome. Believe or not, despite the fact that very few Americans even give Canada a second thought, and could care less about what Canadians do or think, there is a miniscule percentage of the US population that are actually EXTREMELY concerned about it.

I mean... these are Americans that spend a considerable percentage of their lives trolling forums about Canadian politics. Driven. Dedicated. Focused.... Ever watchfull, and ever vigilante. Ready to answer the call if some smug Canadian critisizes anything about the US, or GHASP: uses American statistics as part of an argument!

Somebody has to watch that northern border, and with major conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan tying up large ammounts of resources... AW, and BC were all they could spare

Thats a good way to describe it

[Guest Derek L]

true but its not like we did more than brits or aussies or americans

we did all we could afterall we were in Afghanistan

During the initial invasion of Iraq, we happened to have several naval deployments in the Gulf overlap, which translated into 5 of our Destroyers and Frigates (or 1/3rd our navy) being in the Gulf during the start of the war…..A much larger naval commitment than the RAN.

[dre]

true but its not like we did more than brits or aussies or americans

we did all we could afterall we were in Afghanistan

Yeah... but we clearly did enough for desperate people to latch on to our involvement as some sort of wierd post hoc rationalization for their own Thats SOMETHING right?

[bush_cheney2004]

I mean... these are Americans that spend a considerable percentage of their lives trolling forums about Canadian politics. Driven. Dedicated. Focused.... Ever watchfull, and ever vigilante. Ready to answer the call if some smug Canadian critisizes anything about the US, or GHASP: uses American statistics as part of an argument!

Then it's not very Canadian at all! Hell, this "Canadian" forum is hosted in Texas and runs on an American forum engine. Some Canadians apparently spend all their time worrying about what Americans are doing, trolling American politics because their own are so damn boring.