Rick Posted March 18, 2012 Report Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) I commend the pilots for essentially giving Lisa Raitt and Air Canada's management the finger. We need more of this type of action to beat the right wing fascist government and the anti labour group to a bloody pulp and eradicate them from this country. Edited March 18, 2012 by Rick Quote “This is all about who you represent,” Mr. Dewar (NDP) said. “We’re (NDP) talking about representing the interests of working people and everyday Canadians and they [the Conservatives] are about representing the fund managers who come in and fleece our companies and our country. Voted Maple Leaf Web's 'Most Outstanding Poster' 2011
MACKER Posted March 18, 2012 Report Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) The difference between a baggage handler and stewardess strike as opposed to a pilot strike is much different. Pilots can pay the fines or lawyers to fight the fines, baggage handlers, postal workers and stewardesses don't get paid nearly as much as pilots. Pilots can move even if the government puts legislation to the same extent in. They are also small in number of and highly skilled. They would kill Air Canada, the Conservative Party is risking the airline in interfering. All it takes is one overstressed pilot to fly their plane into sussex drive or parliament and there you have it. There is a clear issue ongoing since it is a plethora of job actions at air Canada, there is something in the future of the airline staff. Air Canada is not a monopoly there are other airlines to fly, I don't see how stopage the this single company constitutes stoppage for the economy when there are alternative (and often lower cost) flights. Forcing people back to work does not resolve the issue it only amplifies it. This is why the conservatives and the Labour minister are clearly wrong in how they are going about these things. People should understand that there are issues and book on alterntive airlines, they should not expect uninterrupted air service, and should look into the solvency and operational issues of an airline before booking if their trip is important to go as schedule. Also the government hiring partisan adjudicators is very unethical. http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1146322--canada-post-lisa-raitt-s-new-arbitrator-in-labour-dispute-ran-twice-for-tories?bn=1 There can be no expectation of due and fair process when the man has clear ties to the corporation - having previously been their representative, as well as also previously been a candidate for the Conservative Party. It is clearly not a reasonable selection for the role of a neutral unbiased arbitrator. The guy is a walking conflict of interest. I am very surprised the union did not find this issued. "Dufort's name was on a short list of names of potential bilingual arbitrators put forward by the union in November 2011" Very surprising they would put forward a candidate for the party that created the legislation that forced them to arbitration, in what they consider illegal and a violation of their rights. Edited March 18, 2012 by MACKER Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 18, 2012 Report Posted March 18, 2012 Actually unionized workers in most cases are very happy and productville bringing the quality standard to much higher levels! When costumers have a choice they usually pick the high quality of service for each dollar spent.This is called getting the most bang for your buck! WWWTT Well, perhaps that's been your experience. Mine has been quite different. I find people usually don't think that deeply about union workers being happy, or non-union workers either. They simply want their product or service and couldn't care less about any union/management dispute. Worse yet, most people seem to want the cheapest deal yet demand the highest service! That of course makes no sense at all. It is the whining of a child wanting the impossible. Still, people are the way they are. Me, I consider labour disputes to be none of my business. Even more, I resent it when they try to make it MY business! Nothing infuriates me more than being held up for 20 minutes by an information picket. Especially when for most of my life the workers involved were making much more than me! I consider them to be fascist tactics and treat them as such. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
CPCFTW Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Actually unionized workers in most cases are very happy and productville bringing the quality standard to much higher levels! When costumers have a choice they usually pick the high quality of service for each dollar spent.This is called getting the most bang for your buck! WWWTT This is completely untrue. Unionized customer service workers are far ruder than their non-unionized private sector equivalents. In the private sector you get fired for being too rude... meanwhile, TTC employees sleep on the job, berate, and sometimes assault their clientele only to receive a slap on the wrist. Quote
stopstaaron Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 When the government takes away your right to strike you have to get inventive. The hypocritical thing here is the Conservatives prorogued parliament twice in two years during the economic recovery to suit their own survival. A smart person would think parliament is an essential service. So when they force these workers back to work out of the guise "essential service", "damaging to the economy", we realize they are liars. Quote Don't ban me bro. Oh behave, I'll behave. I'll be a good little boy.
Battletoads Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 This is completely untrue. Unionized customer service workers are far ruder than their non-unionized private sector equivalents. In the private sector you get fired for being too rude... meanwhile, TTC employees sleep on the job, berate, and sometimes assault their clientele only to receive a slap on the wrist. Reminds me of a certain conservative MP Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Bryan Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 A smart person would think parliament is an essential service. Parliament not sitting for a few weeks is not going to interfere with Canadians' daily lives. Parliament takes long breaks all the time. It only legally has to sit once every 12 months. Not only can people go about their daily activities when parliament is not in session, very few people would even know when it is or is not sitting. Even when it is sitting, there are often long drawn out stalemates where nothing gets done (especially under a minority). Proroguing to reset a session that's going nowhere is a long standing mechanism that has been employed many times by previous governments. It's been done 105 times. Sir John A MacDonald did it, Chretien did it 4 times. Quote
Boges Posted March 19, 2012 Author Report Posted March 19, 2012 Parliament not sitting for a few weeks is not going to interfere with Canadians' daily lives. Parliament takes long breaks all the time. It only legally has to sit once every 12 months. Not only can people go about their daily activities when parliament is not in session, very few people would even know when it is or is not sitting. Even when it is sitting, there are often long drawn out stalemates where nothing gets done (especially under a minority). Proroguing to reset a session that's going nowhere is a long standing mechanism that has been employed many times by previous governments. It's been done 105 times. Sir John A MacDonald did it, Chretien did it 4 times. Which is why the outcry when the Government prorogued before the 2010 Vancouver Olympics was pretty funny. Quote
WLDB Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Which is why the outcry when the Government prorogued before the 2010 Vancouver Olympics was pretty funny. Not really. In 2008 they prorogued to avoid a confidence vote which had never been done before. In 2009 they prorogued to avoid embarassing themselves over the Afghan detainee case, also hadn't been done before. Both times it worked though. Quote "History doesn't repeat itself-at best it sometimes rhymes"-Mark Twain
Shady Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Anyways, getting back to the orginial topic. Yes, it's a firing offense. Their a$$es should all be fired. Ronald Reagan/air traffic controller style. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Anyways, getting back to the orginial topic. Yes, it's a firing offense. Their a$$es should all be fired. Ronald Reagan/air traffic controller style. They're not that stupid... everybody knows you can't fire them for calling in sick... this is tactical. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
huh Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Anyways, getting back to the orginial topic. Yes, it's a firing offense. Their a$$es should all be fired. Ronald Reagan/air traffic controller style. Prove they coordinated the sick call..you cant. They get fired, they sue, they win, simple as that. If you wont let people collectively bargain you are going to pay for it in the long run, I fully expect more delays, more lost baggage and worst service in general, the government didn't do the public any favors, it doesn't matter if you condone these actions, they are as inevitable as human nature. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 They're not that stupid... everybody knows you can't fire them for calling in sick... this is tactical. Sure it is... And you can't fire someone for being sick...Especially when it could be a matter of "public saftey"! It's also as "tactical" as the Minister of Management...er...Labour,hiding behind the pretext of "public safety" to interject herself into the collective bargaining process... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
capricorn Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Prove they coordinated the sick call..you cant. They get fired, they sue, they win, simple as that. Spot on huh. It matters not if their actions played into their agenda to stick it to Air Canada. Who am I to know if they were sick or not. I doubt that the pilots will be challenged on the motive behind their claim of being too ill to fly. Edited March 19, 2012 by capricorn Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Jack Weber Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Prove they coordinated the sick call..you cant. They get fired, they sue, they win, simple as that. If you wont let people collectively bargain you are going to pay for it in the long run, I fully expect more delays, more lost baggage and worst service in general, the government didn't do the public any favors, it doesn't matter if you condone these actions, they are as inevitable as human nature. Completely correct on the disallowing people to collectively bargain thing... The minister has made her bed with management and they both have to lay in it.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Boges Posted March 19, 2012 Author Report Posted March 19, 2012 Completely correct on the disallowing people to collectively bargain thing... The minister has made her bed with management and they both have to lay in it.... Most worker can't collectively bargain. Falsely calling in sick could be considered a firing offense if not a punishable offense in most jobs. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Most worker can't collectively bargain. Falsely calling in sick could be considered a firing offense if not a punishable offense in most jobs. The fault of those workers who can't collectively bargain is their fault,and their fault alone... I'm certain pilots might have a few sick days they can use,collectively bargained,of course... And they can use them...Public safety,and all....The minister should be pleased to no end that the pilots are taking public health and safety so seriously... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Boges Posted March 19, 2012 Author Report Posted March 19, 2012 The fault of those workers who can't collectively bargain is their fault,and their fault alone... I'm certain pilots might have a few sick days they can use,collectively bargained,of course... And they can use them...Public safety,and all....The minister should be pleased to no end that the pilots are taking public health and safety so seriously... So what would you say if each pilot was asked to produce a doctor's letter? Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 So what would you say if each pilot was asked to produce a doctor's letter? Produce the letter... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
fellowtraveller Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Gee ... maybe they'd better learn some new strategies for dealing with people then. Agreed. One of them should be to immediately set up an eligibility list and hire many hire new pilots. If the existing crew of AC pilots is not physically or mentally up to the task of coming to work, they are easily replaced. They will surely agree that the safety of passengers is paramount and if the stress is too much for them, they have no choice but to step aside immediately. Anything less would be irresponsible if not criminal. They can negoatiate medical leave and retirement benefits from the insurance company and everybody is happy. Quote The government should do something.
cybercoma Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Most worker can't collectively bargain. Wrong. All workers have the right to bargain collectively. Quote
Shady Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 Wrong. All workers have the right to bargain collectively. They have the right to withdraw their labour, and conversely, the opposition has the right to fire them. Like I said, they're a$$es should be fired, Reagan/air traffic controller style. Quote
The_Squid Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 It comes just days after the federal government passed back to work legislation .... This is the consequence of messing with someone's "right" (privelege?) to strike. Companies assume the government will step in so they don't bargain in good faith. Employees see their (so-called) rights taken away. The consequence is "wild-cat" strikes and walkouts. This leads to further disruptions. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 19, 2012 Report Posted March 19, 2012 This is the consequence of messing with someone's "right" (privelege?) to strike. Companies assume the government will step in so they don't bargain in good faith. Employees see their (so-called) rights taken away. The consequence is "wild-cat" strikes and walkouts. This leads to further disruptions. Welcome to the wonderful world of openly siding with management,government sponsored,antagonistic labour relations.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
jacee Posted March 20, 2012 Report Posted March 20, 2012 They have the right to withdraw their labour, and conversely, the opposition has the right to fire them. Like I said, they're a$$es should be fired, Reagan/air traffic controller style. It's so much fun watching authoritarians foam at the mouth when someone stands up to them and they can't afford to blow them away! Sure, fire all the pilots. That'll stop the disruption! I'm sure pilots are easy to replace. Quote
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