Protest against the LCBO -- Liquor Control Board of Ontario

[Black Dog]

Even the wiki page, presumably written by the CB of Ont still says 5% and my link frtom the OCB assn says up over 10% from last year.

Wiki is probably using the same (old) numbers from 2010.

As for sales here's a couple of links:

news.ontario.ca/medt/en/2012/07/ontario-microbreweries-thriving.html

newswire.ca/en/story/1266507/give-cheer-this-holiday-season-with-unique-gifts-from-the-lcbo

From the last link:

Craft beer sales have grown by more than 335 per cent in the past five years, while sales of Ontario craft beer grew 28 per cent over last year.

[guyser]

Wiki is probably using the same (old) numbers from 2010.

Hmm...something aint right.

Gary McMullen is the pres of the Assn and his quotes grace both links and Wiki so I must assume that numbers are current since they do reference this past years sales.

[The_Squid]

The figures are a year old... use some common sense... craft beer consumption didn't tripel (get what I did there?) in one year! In 2012 it was 3.2%. At best, it's 5%. You think it suddenly jumped to 10% overnight? All your percentage increases do not add up to a 200% increase in a year.

Edited February 12, 2014 by The_Squid

[Black Dog]

The figures are a year old... use some common sense...

The 5% market share figure is from 2010.

What other figures are you questioning? The links are right there.

[The_Squid]

The 5% market share figure is from 2010.

What other figures are you questioning? The links are right there.

"in 2012, craft brewers sold 19% more than they had in 2009. This represents a 3.2% share of the Ontario market."

So clearly, whether 5% or 3.2%, craft beer is not 10% in 2013.

Edited February 12, 2014 by The_Squid

[Black Dog]

"in 2012, craft brewers sold 19% more than they had in 2009. This represents a 3.2% share of the Ontario market."

So clearly, whether 5% or 3.2%, craft beer is not 10% in 2013.

Source?

[The_Squid]

Source?

look back in my posts... I already gave this...

[Boges]

Mired in scandal and an OPP investigations claiming they brought in an outsider to wipe clean computers presumably to erase evidence of corrupt behaviour, the Ontario Liberals decide to RE-ANNOUNCE! a plan to put LCBOs in grocery stores.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2013/09/18/ontario_liquor_sales_lcbo_preparing_for_big_changes.html

With a new chief and an ambitious growth plan, big changes are ahead for the LCBO.

The Liquor Control Board of Ontario’s strategic plan aims to improve customer service by building dozens of new stores and expanding existing ones — while continuing to provide billions of dollars to the province’s coffers.

The liquor agency’s strategic plan for 2013 to 2016 calls for 34 new stores, after determining through customer research that shoppers like the lighting and design of the new facilities.

The 34 new outlets don’t include 10 “express” stores announced late last year that are set to roll out in the middle of next year as part of a pilot project. The plan is to locate them in or near large grocery stores in the province. These express stores are smaller versions of the stand-alone LCBO outlets, so the stock won’t be as comprehensive.

Still, the goal is more access points for its customers, according to LCBO spokesperson Heather MacGregor.

“As an organization we’re trying to enhance the customer experience,” she says, adding that the agency wants to outperform the retail growth of other businesses such as books or clothing.

The LCBO’s network of stores currently totals 638.

Anyone who thinks this is progress of any kind whatsoever are the worst kind of gullible. They already have these weak-ass Wine Racks in select Grocery Stores.

The convenience would be if you could make your alcohol purchase WITH your groceries. But who can trust a cashier making less than $15/hour. Only unionized workers making $20 plus an hour can safely protect the youth of this province from the horrors of alcohol.

[guyser]

Anyone who thinks this is progress of any kind whatsoever are the worst kind of gullible. They already have these weak-ass Wine Racks in select Grocery Stores.

The convenience would be if you could make your alcohol purchase WITH your groceries. But who can trust a cashier making less than $15/hour. Only unionized workers making $20 plus an hour can safely protect the youth of this province from the horrors of alcohol.

Not sure if serious

[Boges]

Not sure if serious

Of course not. I'm being sarcastic. I thought the eyeroll emoticon would have sufficiently illustrated that.

People with a vested interest in the Lickbo and it's Union will say that having the LCBO will make it less likely underage users will get Alcohol. It's such a blatant lie. Up there with pricing alcohol high to promote "social responsibility".

[bleeding heart]

Fair point. Low-wage employees can sell cigarettes (arguably a more damaging product than alcohol)...and police their own behavior about selling to minors.

[Boges]

Fair point. Low-wage employees can sell cigarettes (arguably a more damaging product than alcohol)...and police their own behavior about selling to minors.

I would say they're more likely to not sell to underage users. I would be confident in saying that IF an LCBO employee was fired for selling to an underage customer, the Union would grieve that dismissal no matter what.

With convenience stores, you could, in theory, lose your right to sell the controlled substance. An LCBO will never lose that right so there are no consequences for selling to underage people.

[Topaz]

All it takes is one person having too many and driving to the grocery store to get some more beer or whatever they fancy and running down someone. After, there are far more people in a grocery store parking lot with kids than in a beer store or LCBO parking lot. Now, the question is besides the driver, who gets sued the grocery store or LCBO?

[guyser]

All it takes is one person having too many and driving to the grocery store to get some more beer or whatever they fancy and running down someone. After, there are far more people in a grocery store parking lot with kids than in a beer store or LCBO parking lot. Now, the question is besides the driver, who gets sued the grocery store or LCBO?

Driver of the car, no one else. Nor should there be anyone else sued.

[Boges]

All it takes is one person having too many and driving to the grocery store to get some more beer or whatever they fancy and running down someone. After, there are far more people in a grocery store parking lot with kids than in a beer store or LCBO parking lot. Now, the question is besides the driver, who gets sued the grocery store or LCBO?

It's clear you've never been to a Lickbo at about 5:15 on a Friday evening.

Also many LCBOs are in plazas with large Supermarkets.

I heard on the radio yesterday that the stipulations the LCBO puts on having one of these stores located in a grocery store are so restrictive, there probably aren't any grocery stores in the province that qualify.

http://www.thestar.com/business/2014/04/02/no_easy_task_to_qualify_for_lcbo_kiosk_analysts.html

Stores must offer at least 2,000 square feet of retail space for the kiosks; it must not be within half a kilometre of an existing LCBO locations; employees must have access to the store’s washroom and if its further than 45 metres from the kiosk, they must have space for a new one; and the store itself must be at least 15,000 square feet with 12,000 of that dedicated to food products.

The deal breaker there is obviously the fact that 12k sq f of a 15k sq f store has to sell food. Any grocery store of that size also has other things like a pharmacy, dry cleaner, electronics section, walk-in clinic, clothing, housewares etc etc etc. Clearly a Walmart is never going to get one of these kiosks.

This was a waste of everyone's time, and another bit of evidence of how loathsome the LCBO is.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Boges

[eyeball]

The deal breaker there is obviously the fact that 12k sq f of a 15k sq f store has to sell food. Any grocery store of that size also has other things like a pharmacy, dry cleaner, electronics section, walk-in clinic, clothing, housewares etc etc etc. Clearly a Walmart is never going to get one of these kiosks.

I've noticed that booze is always cheaper in unionized stores and there are often tip jars in the private liquor stores where non-union workers struggle to get by.

This was a waste of everyone's time, and another bit of evidence of how loathsome the LCBO is.

It's the economy and it's management that's loathsome...it seems to have the effect of making many of the players in it loathsome too.

[Boges]

I've noticed that booze is always cheaper in unionized stores and there are often tip jars in the private liquor stores where non-union workers struggle to get by.

You mean the Wine Racks? The LCBO only allows those outlets to sell a small selection of Ontario wines where the price is set by the LCBO. You can get cheaper imported wine at the LCBO any day. It's an unfair comparison.

It's the economy and it's management that's loathsome...it seems to have the effect of making many of the players in it loathsome too.

It's a case of different parties scratching eachother's back. The government gets to control the supply and price, the LCBO and the Beer Store get a monopoly on where the alcohol gets sold, the profit margain and what the hours are, and the union gets the ability to pay cashiers and stocking clerks $20+/hour.

[eyeball]

You mean the Wine Racks?

I mean the little private liquor stores I see in BC. The one in our town sells beer, wine, hard liquor...I don't think they sell tobacco but they sell all sorts of smoking paraphernalia interestingly enough.

I have no doubt things get unfair when the price is set by the same monopoly that also regulates and governs. Governments seem to lack the moral or ethical background for just about anything they do.

If you're going to rip people off to maximize profits, at least do it properly you idiots. It's a wonder why people hate government organizations.

At the same time, it shouldn't be a wonder that by allowing governments to act as our purchasing agent we'll stand to get a better collective discount, that's why we have government insurance plans for example.

It's a case of different parties scratching eachother's back. The government gets to control the supply and price, the LCBO and the Beer Store get a monopoly on where the alcohol gets sold, the profit margain and what the hours are, and the union gets the ability to pay cashiers and stocking clerks $20+/hour.

It sounds like a case of not everyone getting scratched more or less equally (especially private store clerks) or more importantly, in an above board process that is transparent and clear for all to see. Do that and maybe the wage disparity will narrow and prices will come down.

I'm betting the government and Big Alcohol won't be to interested in that sort of transparency.

[Boges]

I can't comment on how things are done in BC.

Right now in Ontario there's a move to have some beer and wine be available in corner stores. It was discussed earlier in this thread.

Lots of fear-mongering going on by parties that have a vested interest in a government-run monopoly. It's all infuriatingly dishonest.

[eyeball]

I can't comment on how things are done in BC.

Right now in Ontario there's a move to have some beer and wine be available in corner stores. It was discussed earlier in this thread.

I know. There's similar discussions going on here in BC but it all seems bogged down in moral panic.

Lots of fear-mongering going on by parties that have a vested interest in a government-run monopoly. It's all infuriatingly dishonest.

Tell me about it. And now we expect these clowns to somehow usher in the legalization/criminalization of pot?

It's enough to drive you to heroin.

[Boges]

Tell me about it. And now we expect these clowns to somehow usher in the legalization/criminalization of pot?

It's enough to drive you to heroin.

Pretty much, I don't oppose legalized MJ but if they're going to regulate it like they do alcohol and tobacco then it'd be better to just have a tacit decriminalization.

[guyser]

So what do people want?

The govt is NEVER going to give up the supply side of distribution/purchasing leaving only the retail.

And based on what I know and hear about Alta's same price or more expensive/less choice as Ontario already has, why are we even going down that road?

Its not like its uniquely CDN either as we all should know.

[Boges]

The govt is NEVER going to give up the supply side of distribution/purchasing leaving only the retail.

They should, and proposing it would be a vote winner. At least make the distribution more convenient and allow the retailer to determine the profit margain and not a Union.

And based on what I know and hear about Alta's same price or more expensive/less choice as Ontario already has, why are we even going down that road?

It seems to me people in this thread have vigorously debated you on this issue.

Its not like its uniquely CDN either as we all should know.

I dunno, Europeans don't seem to have this ridiculously puritan view of alcohol like we have in Canada. The US certainly doesn't. I think only the Kiwi's and Aussies have similar, if not worse, policies.

[guyser]

18 US states control alcohol.

Alberta suffers from less choice on average than LCBO customers do, drunk driving charges went up, under age drinking charges went up (well duh, private owner doesnt want to lose $)

And Mike Harris didnt do it, likely because he too saw the money the province collected

[Boges]

You're going to have to cite all that.

Even if States control alcohol, you can still buy alcohol at any Walmart or Grocery store anywhere in the States. That type of convenience is what we're looking at to start. Baby Steps.

And the underage drinking thing is simply fear mongering. The LCBO has no real consequence for selling to underage people. A private retailer would. An LCBO would NEVER get shutdown if they did sell to someone under 19.

Restaurants routinely get their alcohol licenses yanked for selling to underage people. Ditto with Convenience stores and tobacco.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Boges