Hey let's talk about the Leafs

overthere · February 17, 2015

Point is, though, there's no evidence at all he'll ask for the 6x6 treatment.

Of course he will.

So no proof, just supposition.

Edmonton Journal and everry local station was all over this with film of Larionov arriving in the middle of it all. His parents are really involved, he lives with them in Edmonton.

When it comes to assessing a player's potential, of course it matters. Stupid to pretend otherwise.

Three years of scary-bad play is plenty of time to notice that the #1 overall pick is -64 and has little clue of the pro game despite intense tutelage.. Would you hang on to him until he is 34 and then make the call, that the team made a mistake?

Sorry, is there a point to this Suban comparison?

Have you ever actually watched a game, do you have any awareness of NHL contracts and how they work?

The question you should be asking is: would Yak be as bad as he's been on a team with decent teammates and management? I doubt that very much.

Unless he turns into Alex Ovechkin overnight I think we're going to find put when he plays somewhere else. It would actually be less embarassing to the Oilers if he went to the KHL. At least then they would not have to admit that he was an awful choice. They should have picked Murray, Reilly, Trouba- all players who would have contributed far more.

Oh, and note that EVERY #1 overall pick goes to a shitty team. Of course.

Yakupov has set a new low for lack of talent, he's the worst #1 since perhaps Patrik Stefan in 1999.

guyser · February 17, 2015

But this is the richest team in the league.

Doesnt matter a whit. There is a sepnding cap and lots of teams can afford to go to that cap.

But there are other things in play, one of which a young man can secure his financial future by electing to go the RFA route.

...or use it it to leverage his payday and re-sign where he supposedly likes playing (altho that likely has changed- he is from my old league BCJHL)...

PrimeNumber · February 17, 2015

Yakupov has set a new low for lack of talent, he's the worst #1 since perhaps Patrik Stefan in 1999.

I wouldn't go that far, not yet. That 1999 draft was probably the worst draft class in history . Vancouver absolutely stole the only two legitimate stars in that draft by a crazy long shot. There are a few others later on but wow..

There is no way Yakupov can be worse than Stefan or Dipietro or Daigle. They just rushed his development, like Edmonton always does. When you look at the shortened season when he was rookie 31 points in 48 games is not so bad. Considering how terrible his team is. I almost guarantee you if you get this kid on a different team he does far better. I personally would have left him in the AHL for a bit but of course most people sitting in their living rooms have a better clue what to do than Edmontons management.

Black Dog · February 18, 2015

Of course he will.

:rolleyes: In that case, I predict he will score 40 goals.

Edmonton Journal and everry local station was all over this with film of Larionov arriving in the middle of it all. His parents are really involved, he lives with them in Edmonton.

Still no evidence a trade demand was made. And another thing: if you had to side with anyone, do you side with the agent and the player or the worst management team in hockey, a management group that has dicked around and undervalued a veritable who's who of NHL players over the years?

Three years of scary-bad play is plenty of time to notice that the #1 overall pick is -64 and has little clue of the pro game despite intense tutelage..

That you cite plus/minus like it means something shows you're out of your element on this. As for "intense tutelage": :lol:

Look I'm not gonna argue that the kid has been great or anything. But there's talent there, that's obvious to anyone, and only a complete moron would suggest a player is all he'll ever be at age 21.

Would you hang on to him until he is 34 and then make the call, that the team made a mistake?

Hmmm if only there were some kind of middle ground between trading a player who is 21 with fewer than 200 NHL games and keeping him forever. :rolleyes:

Have you ever actually watched a game, do you have any awareness of NHL contracts and how they work?

I have. Still don't see what Subban has to do with things.

Unless he turns into Alex Ovechkin overnight I think we're going to find put when he plays somewhere else. It would actually be less embarassing to the Oilers if he went to the KHL. At least then they would not have to admit that he was an awful choice. They should have picked Murray, Reilly, Trouba- all players who would have contributed far more.

Yakupov was the consensus #1 pick. Picking one of those other players would have been a joke . Also, it's funny that you include a guy who has barely played since his draft year (Murray) and exclude the only guy from 2012 who is far and away the best of the bunch (Alex Galchenyuk). Finally, I guarantee none of those players amount to anything if they ended up in the shitshow that is Edmonton with a coach like Eakins.

Oh, and note that EVERY #1 overall pick goes to a shitty team. Of course.

There's a difference between being shitty and being the Oilers.

Yakupov has set a new low for lack of talent, he's the worst #1 since perhaps Patrik Stefan in 1999.

You're trolling is just sad at this point.

Michael Hardner · February 18, 2015

zoom goes New Jersey passing us in the standings.... next in the rearview mirror is Carolina...

overthere · February 18, 2015

I wouldn't go that far, not yet. That 1999 draft was probably the worst draft class in history . Vancouver absolutely stole the only two legitimate stars in that draft by a crazy long shot. There are a few others later on but wow..

There is no way Yakupov can be worse than Stefan or Dipietro or Daigle. They just rushed his development, like Edmonton always does. When you look at the shortened season when he was rookie 31 points in 48 games is not so bad. Considering how terrible his team is. I almost guarantee you if you get this kid on a different team he does far better. I personally would have left him in the AHL for a bit but of course most people sitting in their living rooms have a better clue what to do than Edmontons management.

I did not say he was worse than Daigle, but he is clearly the worst since Stefan in 1999, 15 years ago.

DiPietro was a good goalie that was crippled by injury, almost every year.

Yakupov scored many of his rookie year points at the end, when nothing mattered. Since then, he has shown nothing that would indicate inmprovement, other than a few points recently. Despite being #1 overall, he was never in the running for the Calder. The only thing he has excelled at since was having the worst plus/minus. He still has little clue of the defensive game. Watch where he is when he does not have the puck..... He likes to goalsuck, which costs us goals. When the play turns around, he is very often well behind the play and often on the wrong side of the puck.

He has another problem, which others have commented on and is obvious if you watch the Oilers. He is slow. he is quick, but slow. He gets to top speed quickly, in a few strides, but his top speed is average. It was enough to blow around defence in junior. Not in the bigs.

Where he could make some happy times is by emulating Brett Hull, Find open space and use his excellent shot to score often. Of course, you cannot do that loafing on the halfwall, at a bad angle- where he often can be found.

It won't matter soon. He won't be in Edmonton longer than another season unless a) his play improves dramatically and Edmonton gives him big and long term money. a) has to happen before and it won't.

Bust. Move on.

Black Dog · February 18, 2015

It won't matter soon. He won't be in Edmonton longer than another season unless a) his play improves dramatically and Edmonton gives him big and long term money. a) has to happen before and it won't.

Bust. Move on.

When Yak signs a reasonable bridge deal this off season, will you promise to never speak about hockey again?

overthere · February 18, 2015

When Yak signs a reasonable bridge deal this off season, will you promise to never speak about hockey again?

He'll probably sign a one year deal for about $4 million, on condition that he gets moved to somewhere that appreciates his talent . In hockey terms, that is good bye soon. He hasn't forgotten that he's been told his whole life how good he is, and reinforced by being #1 overall. See Franson above, same deal, same result.

Glad to see your admission that Yakupov will not get the same deal all the other first overall picks (and Eberle) got at this exact point in their careers. Could it be because he is not very good? You think he'll be happy about being fourth donkey on a crap team?

I feel a bit sorry for him. He has never been obliged to learn anything about defence until now.

The_Squid · February 18, 2015

Franson was the Leafs best D-man... they are idiots not to pay him what he's worth. This talk about free agency is by people who don't know much about hockey... the Leafs should never have let him become a UFA in the first place! But he has gone to much greener pastures... he was lucky to be out of there!

overthere · February 18, 2015

Franson was the Leafs best D-man... they are idiots not to pay him what he's worth. This talk about free agency is by people who don't know much about hockey... the Leafs should never have let him become a UFA in the first place! But he has gone to much greener pastures... he was lucky to be out of there!

Or they learned from their Phaneuf experience......

UFA money is not often indicative of value.

Or do you think David Clarkson was a good deal?

Edited February 18, 2015 by overthere

The_Squid · February 18, 2015

Or they learned from their Phaneuf experience......

UFA money is not often indicative of value.

Or do you think David Clarkson was a good deal?

They've had Franson for years... he was never a threat to be an UFA if they would have signed him to a few years...

Signing an older Phaneuf and making him captain was a flop.

Not signing a young Franson to a longer term was a flop...

Clarkson was a flop...

I see a pattern emerging...

The_Squid · February 18, 2015

They blew it big time on Franson.

They played hardball with Franson that summer – doing the same a year earlier and again a year after – finally reaching the second of three consecutive one-year deals towards the end of training camp.

"A one-year [deal] was the most reasonable way for us to find a middle ground," Franson said upon signing.

Franson was bumped higher in Toronto's lineup in the year that followed and though he struggled some with increased competition, the underlying numbers (again) suggested that Toronto was a better team with the former third round pick on the ice. He again led the club's defence in scoring and was among the best possession players on a bad possession team.

But again, the Leafs weren't buying – even reportedly pitching the defender to Montreal in a failed (and potentially disastrous) deal for Josh Gorges. They inked him for one year at $3.3 million in late July.

Franson joined the Leafs top pairing four games into this 2014-15 campaign where he's remained since, blossoming into a valuable asset or the kind Toronto never envisioned him becoming and one they ultimately could not afford. He was flipped back to Nashville on Sunday – alongside Mike Santorelli – in exchange for a late first round pick, a prospect and the expiring contract of Olli Jokinen.

Leaf management did well to recoup a pair of (potential) assets in the transaction, but in the end they missed the boat on Franson.

Management (now mostly gone) failed to forecast where the 6-foot-5, offensively-gifted defender was going. Indicators of his upside were mostly ignored while other members of the roster were locked up to exorbitant contracts that will presumably be moved out in the coming months, if not weeks. Franson would have signed an extended deal after that breakout 2013 campaign, one that would have offered the club value, but instead he was edged slowly out the door.

http://www.tsn.ca/maple-leafs-missed-the-boat-on-franson-1.208326

Black Dog · February 18, 2015

He'll probably sign a one year deal for about $4 million, on condition that he gets moved to somewhere that appreciates his talent.

Bet you're wrong. Terms as above.

Glad to see your admission that Yakupov will not get the same deal all the other first overall picks (and Eberle) got at this exact point in their careers. Could it be because he is not very good?

Uh, I've been saying all along he wouldn't get 6x6, nor would he even ask. I don't think he's put up the numbers to justify that kind of deal, which is why I expect a two year bridge contract. I expect he and his agent know it. I doubt 6x6 even crosses their minds.

You think he'll be happy about being fourth donkey on a crap team?

I think he likes Edmonton and probably would like the chance to succeed there. If the Oilers give up on him, I have no doubt he'll succeed elsewhere, just as so many others have. Hell, if anything I like the player so much I almost hope he does go to a franchise that has a clue about developing young players like Montreal.

I feel a bit sorry for him. He has never been obliged to learn anything about defence until now.

Yeah, lots of offensive prospects struggle with two way play. Stevie Yzerman was almost traded away by the Wings because of his lack of commitment to the other side of the puck. Big deal.

overthere · February 18, 2015

Not signing a young Franson to a longer term was a flop...

Maybe.

Be wary of overvaluing assets, everybody does it but Toronto is notorious for this. The Leafs were splattering money everywhere except on Franson. They knew a longterm contract for big money was what he wanted, and they did not like him enough. Maybe the Leafs knew if they were going to overspend, they could do it on a better player. They did do it on Phaneuf.

He might be the best on the team, that does not mean he is a great player.

overthere · February 18, 2015

Bet you're wrong. Terms as above.

what terms? Bridge contracts are never long term. They are the deal between the entry and UFA deals.

Hell, if anything I like the player so much I almost hope he does go to a franchise that has a clue about developing young players like Montreal.

Like Subban, the guy whose contract situation I mentioned and that you dismissed?

Black Dog · February 18, 2015

what terms? Bridge contracts are never long term. They are the deal between the entry and UFA deals.

He signs and stays, you never speak of hockey again.

Like Subban, the guy whose contract situation I mentioned and that you dismissed?

I didn't dismiss it. I asked why it was at all relevant, a question you abjectly fail to answer.

Shady · February 18, 2015

Yakapov is too young to be considered a bust yet. Plus, he's been in a bad situation in Edmonton. If he were in a more stable franchise, I think you'd see a lot more from him.

PrimeNumber · February 18, 2015

Yakapov is too young to be considered a bust yet. Plus, he's been in a bad situation in Edmonton. If he were in a more stable franchise, I think you'd see a lot more from him.

Shady is right. The kids has played 169 games as of today. Two full 82 game seasons is only 164. The kid has literally just barely played his second full NHL season in terms of games and has 74 points on a terrible team. By camparison Nathan Mckinnon has played 139 games on a better team and has 95 points which is roughly a .25 more points per game pace than Yakupov. Would you consider him a bust?

Edmonton will sign Yakupov to a $3 mill most likely 3 year deal, I doubt they bridge him. To risky and there's no way he goes for a 2 way deal. At this point he's not a bust but he hasn't proved himself. It's far to early. Saying a player sucks because they don't turn it on until the later part of the season is just silly. The Ovechkin's (not this year) and Iginla's of the world say hello to you Overthere. Some guys are just late season scorers weather they are making a playoff run or not.

Edited February 18, 2015 by PrimeNumber

poochy · February 19, 2015

Keep the tank rolling.

kimmy · February 19, 2015

I think getting rid of Dallas Eakins has made a huge difference for Yakupov, and other guys too.

It's no wonder MacTavish and Lowe were so impressed with Eakins, he's the only guy in hockey who thinks the game at their level-- which is somewhere between "Protozoa" and "Inanimate Object"

-k

Black Dog · February 19, 2015

Another beauty goal for Yak city last night. Thing that's stood out for me with Yak's play these past 20 or so games is he's finding those open areas of the ice where he can get his shot off. But more importantly, his teammates are looking for him now. It sounds like he's got a good relationship with Derek Roy (at one point, Nelson had Yak with RNH and Eberle in practice and Yakupov asked to stay with Roy). I mean who could have predicted putting a 21 year old with a veteran centre instead of a teenager would produce results?

As to the team, I'm a little torn. Nice to see them getting some wins post Eakins, but they've looked worse in some ways under Nelson (Hall being out no doubt contributes). Plus, playing themselves out of the McEichel sweepstakes, they are. That said, if this season ends with progress from some of the young players and a top 5 pick in a loaded draft, I guess that's fine. they still need MacT to make some moves he's probably not capable of making (sign Petry, trade or buyout Ference and/or Nikitin, acquire another vet D and C) before they can even think of taking a step forward next season.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Black Dog

Shady · February 19, 2015

As a Leaf fan, the more Edmonton wins, the better. I just wish Buffalo would toss in a few wins now and again.

PrimeNumber · February 19, 2015

Buffalo is well equiped with anti-tank missiles. Good luck. They're rolling out the entire fleet now

Edited February 19, 2015 by PrimeNumber

Shady · February 19, 2015

Buffalo is well equiped with anti-tank missiles. Good luck. They're rolling out the entire fleet now

That's ok, with the lottery system, there's always a chance!

BubberMiley · February 19, 2015

The NHL should have an equal lottery system for all teams that don't make the playoffs. There's enough parity with the salary cap and free agency that it's not essential that finishing last should get the very best draft pick, and it's completely unacceptable that fans should be hoping for their team to lose. I realize they're improving that situation, but they should get rid of all incentive for tanking completely.

And while they're at it, they should also make all games worth three points. It's ridiculous that some games are worth more than others.