Hey let's talk about the Leafs

[The_Squid]

Toronto had a fine coach. I'd be surprised if Babcock goes there. Their management sucks. The players suck. The coach was fine.

[Black Dog]

Toronto had a fine coach. I'd be surprised if Babcock goes there. Their management sucks. The players suck. The coach was fine.

I think you'll see the coach was most of the problem.

[Shady]

I think you'll see the coach was most of the problem.

The coach was part of it. Cripes, they couldn't even change lines properly under Carlyle. Which reared it's ugly head again tonight against Washington. Shannahan brought in several new front office people in the summer. But it's effects won't be felt for another season or so unfortunately.

[Michael Hardner]

It's hard to understand the dynamics of a team that was riding so high a short time ago, and now seems to be completed gutted out. I have been a fan for many decades, but the last 10 years or so have been utter failure - hardly ever making the playoffs etc. I feel like a sucker now when I watch.

[guyser]

Big fish can play anywhere they want.

Correct, but they mainly like to play on the biggest stage possible.

You have not answered the question of why Babcock would seriously want to play in a place where life is hell for a coach, win or lose.

The challenge, pure and simple.

To be the one is what most of them strive for. He is out of real challenges and as such may welcome the biggest challenge of his career. Not syaing he will but he might.

Im guessing a bigger challenge would be Edmonton, but I dooubt he will go there.

He can coach anywhere he wants, why wouldn't he pick a place where he can have a life outside the rink, which is impossible in Toronto?

Contrary to what some think, a player and coach can live here relatively easily and without hassle. Plenty of players have said that some places the anonymity of players etc is a hindrance.

Why wou;dn't he pick a place where he can win a Cup, a place that has a core of better players?

Ego?

Pride?

Challenge?

To be the one?

But why would he want the relentless nonsense of the Toronto(or Montreal) media when he can get a better job elsewhere for big money and far less grief??

Oh thats easy.

Tim Liewicke

Brendan Shanahan

Brian Burke

Joel Quenville (was to get the job but overuled in favour of Carlyle)

....the stage is bigger, the risk are bigger, the rewards for success are bigger. Why not?

In Liewicke's case, he was somewhat duped and /or his wife really cannot take the cold. Who knows.

I can tell you a team that he would like to coach and that would like to have him: St Louis. They have better players than Toronto, non corporate management, and he could enjoy a personal life away from the rink.

How is this known?

St Louis mngmt would dump Hitch, with his record for Babcock? Interesting but defies logic.

But in the end, Detroit will pay him $3 to $3.5 million and everybody will be happy.

But will they pay him 4 or $5M ? Toronto just might.

Except the Toronto media, who will run stories for years on 'the coach who got away'.

First report in the media I saw was from Edmonton advocating this may happen.

Yes, sportswriters across Southern Ontario are wanking on and on about the Leafs. Now there is a surprise. Shanahan played for him once. Big deal.

You should really expand that wanking to every single newspaper in this country, they all want to talk about the Leafs since Leaf fans are everywhere. Maybe the cold out west kept the writers in wanking to the tune of 'Whos next'...I dunno.

Shanahan has had some really bizarre management moves since he started. Fired assistant GMs but kept the GM. Fired assisatnt coaches but kept the coach. Now he has fired the coach but will hire somebody else behind the back of Nonis? Weird stuff.

Some may call it weird, some call it planned.

Fire the Asst Coach and put in your guys.....when you fire the coach your guy is there.

Nonis is NOT calling the shots and he too may be gone very soon. His demeanor and inability to be convincing at any presser since Tues morn assures that.

[Shady]

It's hard to understand the dynamics of a team that was riding so high a short time ago, and now seems to be completed gutted out. I have been a fan for many decades, but the last 10 years or so have been utter failure - hardly ever making the playoffs etc. I feel like a sucker now when I watch.

They're kind of like a rudderless ship. Sometimes their talent can carry them when they get hot. But either way, it's always big peaks and big valleys. No consistency.

[Michael Hardner]

Did anybody hear Talk640 Andy Frost last night ? There were several callers calling for Mike Keenan to be hired !

[overthere]

Correct, but they mainly like to play on the biggest stage possible.

Babcock has nothing to prove there, he has won Cups in an original 6 city and has two Olympic Gold medals.

Unfortunately, Torontonians think their stage matters more than any other in the NHL. It does not. The NHL dream CUP matchup would involve Rangers, Chicago, LA. Toronto would be second tier. Sorry to tell you that reality.

Contrary to what some think, a player and coach can live here relatively easily and without hassle. Plenty of players have said that some places the anonymity of players etc is a hindrance.

Nonsense. Nobody likes to be bothered outside their workplace by loser fans and stupid media, and that is the situation in TO. Anonymity is impossible.

How is this known?

St Louis mngmt would dump Hitch, with his record for Babcock? Interesting but defies logic.

with his record of what? Failure in the playoffs? It is entirely logical. St Louis has lots of very good players but cannot get far in the playoffs. Exit Hitchcock. Enter another high quality coach that has had far more success with less talent.

First report in the media I saw was from Edmonton advocating this may happen.

Me too. Written by a Post media flack from Toronto.

Fire the Asst Coach and put in your guys.....when you fire the coach your guy is there.

No, what Shahanhan has done is bizarre. Coaches like Babcock would not tolerate being handed managements choices for assistants.

[Shady]

Babcock has nothing to prove there, he has won Cups in an original 6 city and has two Olympic Gold medals.

Unfortunately, Torontonians think their stage matters more than any other in the NHL. It does not. The NHL dream CUP matchup would involve Rangers, Chicago, LA. Toronto would be second tier. Sorry to tell you that reality.

Nonsense. Nobody likes to be bothered outside their workplace by loser fans and stupid media, and that is the situation in TO. Anonymity is impossible.

with his record of what? Failure in the playoffs? It is entirely logical. St Louis has lots of very good players but cannot get far in the playoffs. Exit Hitchcock. Enter another high quality coach that has had far more success with less talent.

Me too. Written by a Post media flack from Toronto.

No, what Shahanhan has done is bizarre. Coaches like Babcock would not tolerate being handed managements choices for assistants.

I'm sorry, but Shanahan hasn't done anything bizarre. He's actually made some very good front office moves, that have gone relatively unnoticed. Regardless, if Babcock wanted to stay in Detroit, he had every opportunity to sign the contract extension they offered him last summer.

[Shady]

Did anybody hear Talk640 Andy Frost last night ? There were several callers calling for Mike Keenan to be hired !

That would certainly be interesting. I can't say that I'd be in favour of that though.

[Michael Hardner]

That would certainly be interesting. I can't say that I'd be in favour of that though.

I never liked him as a coach. He did win a cup, but former players just scorched his coaching abilities and he had frequent run-ins. Then again, it would distract Leaf fans from the constant losing.

[guyser]

Babcock has nothing to prove there, he has won Cups in an original 6 city and has two Olympic Gold medals.

Hmm....then why not retire? Right? He has nothing to prove.

But he has passion, and with that he looks for the biggest stage. Its right here in Trawna.

Unfortunately, Torontonians think their stage matters more than any other in the NHL. It does not.

It doesnt matter more, its just a shitload bigger than the rest. Not just Torontonians, but people all over Canada and the States that follow the Leafs.

Ya know, those ones that fill the rinks when the Leafs are in town. Those owners are happy, including Eugene.

The NHL dream CUP matchup would involve Rangers, Chicago, LA. Toronto would be second tier. Sorry to tell you that reality.

Nonsense. Nobody likes to be bothered outside their workplace by loser fans and stupid media, and that is the situation in TO. Anonymity is impossible.

Careful, your insecurities are showing through ! LOL

Second tier.....Ok.

with his record of what? Failure in the playoffs? It is entirely logical. St Louis has lots of very good players but cannot get far in the playoffs. Exit Hitchcock. Enter another high quality coach that has had far more success with less talent.

Ok, may happen, doubt it big time but IMHO thats ok.

No, what Shahanhan has done is bizarre. Coaches like Babcock would not tolerate being handed managements choices for assistants.

He would not be handed anything like you suggest. The Leafs started the season w Carlyle, his asst coaches were given to him so that when they got rid of him the asst's were there in place. None of them are long term.

Babcock will , likely if he is to pursue this option, demand his own picks, his own way of running th team and his 4 or 5 million.

Everyone knows that if you bring success to the Leafs after this horrible decades long run youll be a savouir !

Look at the Cubs....and who moved there.

Look at Joe Madden in Florida .

Methinks your petty jealousy of Toronto is making you think silly things.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Guyser2

[Black Dog]

The NHL dream CUP matchup would involve Rangers, Chicago, LA. Toronto would be second tier. Sorry to tell you that reality.

I like to rip on Toronto's self-absorption as much as anyone, but that's insane. Toronto is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, markets in the league. A long playoff run by the Leafs would be big money. Save the second tier business for some of the struggling U.S. teams.

[overthere]

Methinks your petty jealousy of Toronto is making you think silly things.

The silliest thing of all is to think anybody on the planet is jealous of a team that has gone 47 years without getting to a final, much less won!. Crazycrazy

Nobody overvalues their players like TO fans.

A long playoff run by the Leafs would be big money.

It would be big money and a big deal in TO, but wouldn';t earn the league a dime in the markets where they want to grow and earn.

The NHL head office likes big market US matchups.

Same in the NBA and MLB.

[PrimeNumber]

I like to rip on Toronto's self-absorption as much as anyone, but that's insane. Toronto is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, markets in the league. A long playoff run by the Leafs would be big money. Save the second tier business for some of the struggling U.S. teams.

Truth, the leafs are the richest Canadian sports team, and the richest NHL team. Toronto in the Stanley Cup finals would rake in more money than the league could even imagine. Way more than any LA, NY, Chicago teams could ever hope to bring in.

[overthere]

I'm sorry, but Shanahan hasn't done anything bizarre.

I'm not sorry, but Shanahan has been weird often.

The usual NHL practice is for the team president(Shanahan) to come in and fire the GM(Nonis) and replace him with his own guy. The new GM fires the coach and staff andf replaces him with his guy, who brings some assistants. It's a pretty clear line of authority. The new GM and coach are repsonsible for their choices.

Instead, Shanahan effectively demotes Nonis instead of firing him, fires Nonis' assistants and hires new ones of Shanahans choice, extends a leftover coach(Carlyle) for two years, fires the assistant coaches and hires new ones of the presidents choosing, then fires Carlyle while keeping Nonis. That is bizarrre, the whole thing. So ow no doubt Shanahan will hire a new coach, which leaves Nonis with exactly zero subordiantes that he has chosen while remaining responsible for everyhthing they do. Odd in the extreme as management style.

[guyser]

The silliest thing of all is to think anybody on the planet is jealous of a team that has gone 47 years without getting to a final, much less won!. Crazycrazy

Nobody said you nor anyone else was jealous of the Leafs.

But you do exhibit that funny western jealousy of Toronto the city and the east in particular. Hate us , love us, dont really care that much, but your arguments on this are weak and full of venom that isnt true.

Seriously.....Toronto in the Cup would be second tier?

Hey if so, there are a thousand suits downtown praying, wishing hoping begging to get a second tier final.

Nobody overvalues their players like TO fans.

There are so many of them only means theres a larger idiot base. No different anywhere you go.

It would be big money and a big deal in TO, but wouldn';t earn the league a dime in the markets where they want to grow and earn.

So? Neither would an LA Nashville final earn a dime where they want to grow the game. Huh?

Not to mention the league would love to make some money from Merch sales if the Leafs ever....ever....got into the finals.

Hell, Sportsnet, like CBC, loved when the LEafs at least made a first round appearance in the playoffs. The ratings, and profit were huge amd SN would love some of that dough.

The NHL head office likes big market US matchups.

Same in the NBA and MLB.

No, they like money.

The top rated game is still Mtl vs Chicago

NBA is switching around a few games to get the Raps on the tube. I wonder why? Could it be......money?

[Black Dog]

It would be big money and a big deal in TO, but wouldn';t earn the league a dime in the markets where they want to grow and earn.

Money has no postal code.

The NHL head office likes big market US matchups.

Which doesn't mean they'd turn their noses up at the windfall a Leafs playoff run would bring.

[Michael Hardner]

Money has no postal code.

It kind of does. And both 'money' and the postal code in question start with M.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M_postal_codes_of_Canada

[Black Dog]

It kind of does. And both 'money' and the postal code in question start with M.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M_postal_codes_of_Canada

Smart arse.

[overthere]

Methinks your petty jealousy of Toronto is making you think silly things.

is what you before you said this:

Nobody said you nor anyone else was jealous of the Leafs.

Despite your self-deprecation, I don't think you are a 'nobody'.

Seriously.....Toronto in the Cup would be second tier?

From the NHL viewpoint, yes it would be. Everybody who loves the Leafs already watches the Leafs. Nobody in Orange County is going to watch Leafs vs Nashville because the Leafs are playing. If it is Bruins vs Kings, there is a shot at picking up some new viewers, the ones they want. It is retard marketing 101 to try to sell your product again to people who already buy it. You have to sell it to people who have not previously bought in to grow revenue.

[overthere]

But you do exhibit that funny western jealousy of Toronto the city and the east in particular. Hate us , love us, dont really care that much, but your arguments on this are weak and full of venom that isnt true.

I don't hate and certainly am not jealous of the Leafs, Toronto or 'the east'(actually the center).

But from time to time I present facts that you are very uncomfortable with. I'm sure you'll get over it if you are capable of stepping back just a wee bit and thinking objectively instead of emotionally.

[Black Dog]

From the NHL viewpoint, yes it would be. Everybody who loves the Leafs already watches the Leafs. Nobody in Orange County is going to watch Leafs vs Nashville because the Leafs are playing.

Nobody in Orange County is going to watch the final if the Ducks aren't in it either and very few would watch if they were.

[overthere]

Nobody in Orange County is going to watch the final if the Ducks aren't in it either and very few would watch if they were.

First part correct, second part not correct. And the NHL brass counts on the second part to grow the brand.

Anyway, Gawd Bless the Leafs and their march to glory.

[guyser]

I don't hate and certainly am not jealous of the Leafs, Toronto or 'the east'(actually the center).

Ok. Prob best you dont write like you are then.

I mean 'second tier"...?.....thats laughable and very far from any recognizable wisdom as respects hockey.

But from time to time I present facts that you are very uncomfortable with.

I have no issue with facts, of which none are presented here of course , so who knows what you are getting at.

I'm sure you'll get over it if you are capable of stepping back just a wee bit and thinking objectively instead of emotionally.

LOL !

Objectively.....says the 'second tier' guy.

Wanna see the ratings when the Ducks were in the cup? Ill leave this tidbit right here....they didnt pull as many viewers as the WNBA All Star game. Less than half a million people in the USA. (by end of series they were up higher)

In Canada it drew 2.6m . No surprise there.

The NHL is concerned with money first, growing the game second.