Rampant antisemitism remains prevalent

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, hot enough said:

In point of fact, it is precisely folks like you who debase these noble ideals by providing unqualified support to those who have been debasing the ideals since the beginning. They are like Mafia, pretending they are beneficent.

You sound like a 'glass half-empty' type of guy.  If you can't recognize the value that the American idea added to the world then aren't trying to be objective, and maybe you just can't be.

[hot enough]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You sound like a 'glass half-empty' type of guy.  If you can't recognize the value that the American idea added to the world then aren't trying to be objective, and maybe you just can't be.

If you can't recognize what a hypocrite you are being, then there is no hope for objectivity from you. If you think it was such a grand idea/ideal, then why do you sit silent and allow it to be so thoroughly abused? If it is so grand, why do you sit stone cold silent about the hundreds of millions/billions that have not had this ideal brought to them. In fact the opposite. Tens of millions slaughtered, Micheal, hundreds of millions having had their lives destroyed and their wealth stolen, and you dance about showing off your rousseau. 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, hot enough said:

1) why do you sit silent and allow it to be so thoroughly abused?

2) If it is so grand, why do you sit stone cold silent about the hundreds of millions/billions that have not had this ideal brought to them. In fact the opposite. Tens of millions slaughtered,

3) Micheal, hundreds of millions having had their lives destroyed and their wealth stolen, and you dance about showing off your rousseau. 

1) We have already established on this thread a pattern of you calling me out for NOT posing (ie. about Muslims being discriminated against) and me easily finding counter examples.  I am not going to search out my many posts on the topics of Western freedom.  Just use the search feature yourself and find an example of a post of mine that you disagree with, then respond and continue the discussion.  I think we're closer on our opinions than you think.  As with the Muslim issue you called me out on, you are just not familiar with my take.

2) Search my posts and find an example where I expressed support for such slaughter.

3) This is a strawman argument.  The ideals that countries represent can always be held up against the reality.  Canada, The USSR, The British Commonwealth... the examples of the abuse of power at the expense of people are myriad.  Unless you're saying that we should destroy all governments, I don't know what to do with this.  

 

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2) Search my posts and find an example where I expressed support for such slaughter.

3) This is a strawman argument.  The ideals that countries represent can always be held up against the reality.  Canada, The USSR, The British Commonwealth... the examples of the abuse of power at the expense of people are myriad.  Unless you're saying that we should destroy all governments, I don't know what to do with this.  

 

Your silence is support for these slaughters.

Of course you know what to do. You would do what any just, sane individual would do, demand that those who perpetuate these crimes are held to account. But you don't do it. If you are cognizant of these things, why would you be so silent? There is plenty of evidence, in fact, it is overwhelming but the propaganda, some which you have just advanced, is overwhelming. Iraq, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Guatmala, Chile, Angola, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, ... , all likely within your lifetime, or your ken. 

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, hot enough said:

1) Your silence is support for these slaughters.

2) Of course you know what to do. You would do what any just, sane individual would do, demand that those who perpetuate these crimes are held to account. But you don't do it. If you are cognizant of these things, why would you be so silent? There is plenty of evidence, in fact, it is overwhelming but the propaganda, some which you have just advanced, is overwhelming. Iraq, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Guatmala, Chile, Angola, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, ... , all likely within your lifetime, or your ken. 

1) You haven't proven my silence.  The onus on you is to find an example where I defended slaughter or otherwise posted on the topic not acknowledging that it's wrong.  Beyond that, these are imaginary opinions of mine that you are making up in your head.

2) Again, you have no proof of my silence.  Find some proof and I will respond.   I have been against the human rights violations perpetuated by powerful nations in the past since a very young age and have actually protested in person so you're off base again.

[hot enough]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) You haven't proven my silence.  The onus on you is to find an example where I defended slaughter or otherwise posted on the topic not acknowledging that it's wrong.  Beyond that, these are imaginary opinions of mine that you are making up in your head.

 

Your silence proves your silence. Your silence allows the slaughters to continue. I have never once seen you address anyone on any of these myriad slaughters. They have come up time and again, in fact the defenders of the US war criminals love to throw up the fact that their good guy is getting gored. 

Quote

2) Again, you have no proof of my silence.  Find some proof and I will respond.   I have been against the human rights violations perpetuated by powerful nations in the past since a very young age and have actually protested in person so you're off base again.

Again, your silence of these topics is proof in and of itself. What's holding you back now that you are an old guy?

This is the same silly type of meme everyone used when face with irrefutable proof that the USGOCT was garbage - "go back and research all the "evidence". Odd that none was ever brought forward. Is this the same for your "proof"?

Edited July 27, 2017 by hot enough

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, hot enough said:

1) I have never once seen you address anyone on any of these myriad slaughters.  

2) Again, your silence of these topics is proof in and of itself. What's holding you back now that you are an old guy?

1) It's not up to me to serve you with web searches and cater to unfounded allegations.

2) You haven't given an example of me being silent.  If I thought that answering your question would end these baseless allegations I would probably do it but as with your accusation of my position on Muslim discrimination, you didn't acknowledge that you were wrong.  You just went to another allegation.  I'll respond if you find an example of me defending these crimes, but you won't.  You won't even look.

Can we get back to the OP now ?  Your inability to let such things go, and cluttering up the thread with baseless allegations is really getting tiresome again.  

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2) You haven't given an example of me being silent.

That is completely illogical but then I've read your posts on many things. Here's an example of you being silent, Michael. 

Michael H: " .... ..... ..... ...... "

I'm done with you. 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

20 hours ago, hot enough said:

I disagree with your first statement. 

You don't prefer people like you, even slightly? 

[hot enough]

12 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

You don't prefer people like you, even slightly? 

I prefer people who are honest, warm, loving, kind, generous to others and so far that has been a wide ranging number of ethnicities. 

[taxme]

On 7/26/2017 at 4:32 PM, Argus said:

Untrue. I can criticize Israel. There is much to criticize. But I rarely find a point in doing so because... like, it's another country, a small one, far away and not very important to us. I don't bother that much. Anything you care to criticize Israel about you could see anywhere from a dozen to fifty nations doing worse. Why doesn't anyone criticize them? Why, because they don't care. Who cares what stupid thing the stupid, corrupt, burtal government of Nigeria is doing now? Nobody here.

 

The globalist elite and their puppet on a string politicians get to pick and choose as to who will be next to get attacked over their policies or bombed. Canada had no problem putting sanctions against another country over their so-called apartheid program. Saudi Arabia beheads their prisoners and Canada says and does nothing. Why?

Most likely those fifty odd brutal and corrupt countries are never attacked or bombed is because their politicians are on the puppet strings of the globalists. Israel is just a nothing country in the middle of a desert, and is of no significance to Canada or the Canadian people. But Canadians are forced to kiss their butt because we are pretty much told that we have to by our fearless political leaders because they are our ally. In what way is Israel Canada's ally? What is Israel doing for Canada that is good for Canadians? Anyone here can tell me why Canada needs Israel?  

[marcus]

15 hours ago, Rue said:

Your mantra that Israel is an apartheid nation is by inherent nature an attack on Jews for being Israeli.

What garbage. Pull out the anti-semite card again, why don't you.

Israel is a racist state that has established an apartheid system that persecutes the Palestinian people.

Their actions, when compared to the 1973 International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid, which defines the crime of apartheid as “inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them.”, clearly shows that Israel is an apartheid state.

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 2017-07-27 at 2:43 PM, Argus said:

Drivel. The West supports lots of unsavoury governments around the world.

Again, drivel. The situations are not the least bit comparable. 

The situation in the WB does have some similarities to RSA. The lives of people, where they can live and work, are determined by their ethnic origin and security is a common theme as well. One supporter of the status quo preferred to call it segregation, unaware of the connotations of that word. Whatever you call it, you have tribal separation. I don't think the Israelis set out with the same intent as Hendrik Verwoerd and his friends but the current product is not that far off. Quality of life-wise, fair to middling: a long way from either Congo at the bottom or the likes of Norway at the top.

Clearly, the world is full of tribal conflict far worse than Israel/Palestine; one thing the Israelis get is access and approval at the highest level in the US. Even the Saudis don't get this treatment:

 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/24/obama-binyamin-netanyahu-congress-speech-boehner-leaks

One of the people in the audience for that speech was Arnon Milchan who spied on the US and is still allowed unrestricted access there, a very unusual situation:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/film-mogul-power-broker-ex-spy-arnon-milchan-is-central-to-netanyahu-graft-probe/

http://original.antiwar.com/smith-grant/2017/05/10/how-to-smuggle-us-nuclear-triggers-to-israel/

http://www.israellobby.org/krytons/05032017_Heli_Release.pdf

 

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[Argus]

12 hours ago, marcus said:

What garbage. Pull out the anti-semite card again, why don't you.

Israel is a racist state that has established an apartheid system that persecutes the Palestinian people.

And yet Palestinian-Isrealis have more political and human rights than any other Arabs in the world.

Curious that, for an 'apartheid state'.

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Apartheid South Africa was less of an outlier than we like to think. Its mistake was to rigidly codify and legislate the ethnic segregation that existed in many other countries at the time, and still does. PJ O'Rourke had great fun with this selective outrage in his hilarious book 'Holidays in Hell'. 

Edited July 29, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[marcus]

9 hours ago, Argus said:

And yet Palestinian-Isrealis have more political and human rights than any other Arabs in the world.

Curious that, for an 'apartheid state'.

Israel's policies for the past several decades fits perfectly with the definition of the convention which defines apartheid. If you feel that other states fit the same definition of the convention, let us know who they are and how our governments in the west are allowing them to continue their actions. Instead of trying to cover for Israel's atrocities with the weak argument that we should shut up, because there are shittier places for people around the world. 

Edited July 29, 2017 by marcus

[OftenWrong]

On 2017-07-27 at 0:57 PM, hot enough said:

The founding fathers, in and of itself a brilliant piece of propaganda, were greedy terrorists who saw a way to gather unto themselves all the vast wealth the UK was taking. They were nothing more than terrorists, using fancy language that they knew was necessary to validate their crimes. They were purveyors of genocide, they were deeply amoral human beings, self admitted so. 

Since that initial crime the US has been on a Nazi like rampage, murdering and stealing, committing crimes that have no place for a country of such, supposedly, high ideals.

You sure do hate the USA, hot enough, that's abundantly clear. When will you start your jihad?

[Argus]

12 hours ago, marcus said:

Israel's policies for the past several decades fits perfectly with the definition of the convention which defines apartheid.

I just pointed out to you how they do not. Your only basis for even suggesting they do is by equating non-Israelis with Israelis and demanding they have the same rights - even while insisting their territory is not part of Israel and does not belong to Israel. You are sucking and blowing at the same time.

 

 

[marcus]

9 hours ago, Argus said:

I just pointed out to you how they do not.

You most certainly did not point out anything that counters that Israel is an Apartheid State. All you gave was some general comment. I really don't want to get into a back and forth with you, when it seems like you don't even know the background of what you're trying to argue. 

If you want to have a debate, you first need to understand what you're trying to debate. If you care to understand the situation better, here is an analysis of Israel and their Apartheid policies: https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2017/03/31/israel-is-an-apartheid-state-even-if-the-un-report-has-been-withdrawn/

 

[bush_cheney2004]

On 7/28/2017 at 10:57 PM, marcus said:

Israel's policies for the past several decades fits perfectly with the definition of the convention which defines apartheid. If you feel that other states fit the same definition of the convention, let us know who they are and how our governments in the west are allowing them to continue their actions.

 

Okay....please start with Canada, where the system of reserves were developed by the racist, imperialist government and adopted as a great idea in South Africa...not Israel.    The reserve system remains in place to this day.

Edited July 30, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[hot enough]

23 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

You sure do hate the USA, hot enough, that's abundantly clear. When will you start your jihad?

I don't hate the US, I hate what the US has been doing since its inception, murder and mayhem. I know you love the hypocrisy and the evil that the USA did, does and will do. 

Why don't you try to address the facts for once instead of your constant obfuscation and often wrongness?

[bush_cheney2004]

Please hate the USA if you wish, because it is not going to change, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Israel is a very good ally of the USA, don'tcha know.

Edited July 30, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Okay....please start with Canada, where the system of reserves were developed by the imperialist government and adopted as a great idea in South Africa...not Israel.

Canada followed the lead of the grand purveyors of genocide, the USA. Why don't you want to talk about US evil when you love it so much?

The US made over 500 treaties with Native Americans and broke them all. The US put 4 butt ugly presidents/war criminals/terrorists on the sacred grounds of Native Americans. 

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Please hate the USA if you wish, because it is not going to change, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Israel is a very good ally of the USA, don'tcha know.

You love the evil of the USA because it is in your genes; you are a war mongering people, an evil people, a people of genocide and no, it won't change with deeply evil people like you supporting the deep evil. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada has no "moral" standing when it comes to lecturing Israel about stolen land.

The very idea is laughable.   Same for the USA, which is why we support Israel with lots of foreign aid instead of pretending to be "aboriginal" saviors.