Rampant antisemitism remains prevalent

[Rue]

8 hours ago, marcus said:

Because our governments in the West don't support (politically and economically) those countries but they support Israel. 

This is similar to Apartheid South Africa. An African government that was initially supported by Western governments, despite their blatant abuse of a group of people. The only reason that was stopped was because people spoke out against it and it started with cultural and economic boycotts. 

Your mantra that Israel is an apartheid nation is by inherent nature an attack on Jews for being Israeli.

Because you defend the right for Muslim states to be Muslim and impose discriminatory Muslim sharia law on non Muslims states and  support terrorist groups who want to violently impose sharia law on non Muslims and destroy Israel you are challenged.

You label the state of Israel apartheid because, it is Jewish. You don't hold Muslim states to the same standard.

That's why you have no credibility ands that is why you are challenged.

You don't criticize specific Israeli policies. If you did that no one could care less.

You are only challenged because you don't do that but instead attack and smeer Jews for existing as Israelis and Israel for being Jewish by identity.

Your whining changes nothing. Your comments attacking Jews for being Israel and Israel choosing to be a Jewish state speak for themselves-so does your selective silence as to Muslim nations and Muslim terrorists.

Pull the victim crap with someone else.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Rue

[Rue]

16 hours ago, hot enough said:

I disagree with your first statement. 

You'd be more credible if you came down out of the tree and took the banana out of your orifice when responding.

[Michael Hardner]

16 hours ago, hot enough said:

Gee, thanks, Michael. We never would have known all this if you hadn't brought it forward for the express purpose of, "Hey look folks, I'm not anti-Jewish!"

If you mean 'we' plural, then there are definitely posters on here who don't seem to know about this trope.

[Rue]

16 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I can't even mention Israel without being called 'anti-semite'.

Your constant whining is pathetic. You got caught red handed parsing words to engage in a smeer against all Israelis and you want to resurrect this thread and whine?

You think your repeat denials and whining erases what you did? Lol.

Your repeat whining and looking for sympathy for what you did is past pathetic.

Grow some petunias and take responsibility when you engage in a smeer that blows up in your face.

Kaboom,.

[hot enough]

45 minutes ago, Rue said:

You are only challenged because you don't do that but instead attack and smeer Jews for existing as Israelis and Israel for being Jewish by identity.

It's SMEAR, Rue, not 'smeer'.

The above is more Rue BS. Rue engages in these personal attacks using the trope/propaganda that is used in an attempt to stifle discussion on pertinent issues. Go away with your phony "smeers", Rue.

And talk about tropes, Michael. Rue is king at these nutty tropes. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by hot enough

[hot enough]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If you mean 'we' plural, then there are definitely posters on here who don't seem to know about this trope.

Then address those particular "posters", don't add your own silly trope to give Rue phony ammunition to be used to stifle discussion. 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, hot enough said:

Then address those particular "posters", don't add your own silly trope to give Rue phony ammunition to be used to stifle discussion. 

I have done so in individual cases.  It's not my responsibility if particular posters think that my general comments apply.

It doesn't seem that you doubt that there is an element of anti-Semitism out there, given your comments on the familiarity of the trope.  So we agree on that.

[GostHacked]

16 hours ago, Argus said:

Untrue. I can criticize Israel. There is much to criticize. But I rarely find a point in doing so because... like, it's another country, a small one, far away and not very important to us. I don't bother that much. Anything you care to criticize Israel about you could see anywhere from a dozen to fifty nations doing worse. Why doesn't anyone criticize them? Why, because they don't care. Who cares what stupid thing the stupid, corrupt, burtal government of Nigeria is doing now? Nobody here.

 

 It seems that you can criticize and not get flack for it. When I do....  

[GostHacked]

36 minutes ago, Rue said:

You'd be more credible if you came down out of the tree and took the banana out of your orifice when responding.

Mike is this the kind of shit that is acceptable around here??

[GostHacked]

33 minutes ago, Rue said:

Your constant whining is pathetic. You got caught red handed parsing words to engage in a smeer against all Israelis and you want to resurrect this thread and whine?

You think your repeat denials and whining erases what you did? Lol.

Your repeat whining and looking for sympathy for what you did is past pathetic.

Grow some petunias and take responsibility when you engage in a smeer that blows up in your face.

Kaboom,.

Mike, is this acceptable behavior on this forum?

[hot enough]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I have done so in individual cases.  It's not my responsibility if particular posters think that my general comments apply.

 

It is your responsibility as a moderator to moderate, not take sides. 

Quote

It doesn't seem that you doubt that there is an element of anti-Semitism out there, given your comments on the familiarity of the trope.  So we agree on that.

Do you agree that there is rampant anti-Muslimism out there? I haven't seen you write of the myriad Muslim tropes, the myriad tropes denigrating all the countries that the US/UK/... have illegally invaded.

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Mike is this the kind of shit that is acceptable around here??

Report it, and ignore is my advice.

[hot enough]

52 minutes ago, Rue said:

9 hours ago, marcus said:

This is similar to Apartheid South Africa. An African government that was initially supported by Western governments, despite their blatant abuse of a group of people. The only reason that was stopped was because people spoke out against it and it started with cultural and economic boycotts. 

Rue: Your mantra that Israel is an apartheid nation is by inherent nature an attack on Jews for being Israeli.

Because you defend the right for Muslim states to be Muslim and impose discriminatory Muslim sharia law on non Muslims states and  support terrorist groups who want to violently impose sharia law on non Muslims and destroy Israel you are challenged.

That's a dandy piece of propaganda, Rue, right out of that racist right wing website, the Rebel.

You label the state of Israel apartheid because, it is Jewish. You don't hold Muslim states to the same standard.

That's crap. The world constantly chastizes and penalizes these states but never Israel or the US for their myriad crimes. 

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, hot enough said:

Do you agree that there is rampant anti-Muslimism out there? I haven't seen you write of the myriad Muslim tropes, the myriad tropes denigrating all the countries that the US/UK/... have illegally invaded.

Yes, of course.  I have posted quite a bit on anti-Muslim sentiment as well.  Xenophobia impacts these groups and others also.  There is a thin line between commenting on a religion, generalizing about the members of a religion, blaming them, and then denoting them as irredeemable ie. inhuman.  I look at the purpose behind any statement, and as such the first two types of comments are game, and the last two are not productive IMO.

[hot enough]

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Report it, and ignore is my advice.

If you were subjected to the constant false barrages of a Rue, you would not ignore it. Why do you tolerate people being labeled anti-Semite but you won't allow people to be called 'racist'. Isn't anti-Semitism racist?

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

and then denoting them as irredeemable ie. inhuman.  

And that is what GostHack has been accused of doing by Rue. When he has never done any such thing to my knowledge. Why allow this manner of calling a person a racist?

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, hot enough said:

....Isn't anti-Semitism racist?

I would say so, yes.  If you encounter insults, please report them and the moderator will look at it.

[hot enough]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 I have posted quite a bit on anti-Muslim sentiment as well.

All you commented on was that there are anti-Semitic tropes out there. There is much much much more anti-Muslim sentiment on MLW than there is anti-Semitic sentiment.

It just doesn't have the socially redeeming value/bonus points that commenting on anti-Semitic comments does, right?

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, hot enough said:

1) All you commented on was that there are anti-Semitic tropes out there.

2) There is much much much more anti-Muslim sentiment on MLW than there is anti-Semitic sentiment.

3) It just doesn't have the socially redeeming value/bonus points that commenting on anti-Semitic comments does, right?

1) On this thread, that was all I commented on.  See the OP.

2) Agreed.

3) Some posts I have made on the topic:

 

 

 

[hot enough]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) On this thread, that was all I commented on.  See the OP.

2) Agreed.

3) Some posts I have made on the topic:

 

 

 

Good on ya, Michael. Let's make anti-Muslim tropes as socially abhorrent as being anti-Semitic. They are equal forms of virulent racism. 

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, hot enough said:

Good on ya, Michael. Let's make anti-Muslim tropes as socially abhorrent as being anti-Semitic. They are equal forms of virulent racism. 

Indeed, let's do this.  How to do it, IMO, is to be vigilant about what constitutes acceptable dialogue and evangelizing that to all thinking members of "the" public.

That means that you can talk about the defining aspects of a group, and even generalizations about the group.  However in the latter case, you risk drifting into 'blame' territory which drifts towards painting groups of innocent people as unchangeable, irredeemable, or even 'threats' to our way of life.

But our way of life allows for the American ideal of 'pursuit of happiness' in a pluralistic and tolerant society.  We owe the brilliant American Founding Fathers a huge debt for devising this system.  Those who paint groups as villains are not interested in the Western way IMO.

[hot enough]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

But our way of life allows for the American ideal of 'pursuit of happiness' in a pluralistic and tolerant society.  We owe the brilliant American Founding Fathers a huge debt for devising this system.  Those who paint groups as villains are not interested in the Western way IMO.

Nice little diversion, Michael. The founding fathers, in and of itself a brilliant piece of propaganda, were greedy terrorists who saw a way to gather unto themselves all the vast wealth the UK was taking. They were nothing more than terrorists, using fancy language that they knew was necessary to validate their crimes. They were purveyors of genocide, they were deeply amoral human beings, self admitted so. 

Since that initial crime the US has been on a Nazi like rampage, murdering and stealing, committing crimes that have no place for a country of such, supposedly, high ideals. 

In point of fact, it is precisely folks like you who debase these noble ideals by providing unqualified support to those who have been debasing the ideals since the beginning. They are like Mafia, pretending they are beneficent.

[hot enough]

16 hours ago, Argus said:

Untrue. I can criticize Israel. There is much to criticize. But I rarely find a point in doing so because... like, it's another country, a small one, far away and not very important to us. I don't bother that much. Anything you care to criticize Israel about you could see anywhere from a dozen to fifty nations doing worse. Why doesn't anyone criticize them? Why, because they don't care. Who cares what stupid thing the stupid, corrupt, burtal government of Nigeria is doing now? Nobody here.

 

You don't criticize because criticism of Israel has been made into a smear campaign and you don't have the cojones to do so. 

[Argus]

11 hours ago, marcus said:

Because our governments in the West don't support (politically and economically) those countries but they support Israel. 

Drivel. The West supports lots of unsavoury governments around the world.

11 hours ago, marcus said:

This is similar to Apartheid South Africa. 

Again, drivel. The situations are not the least bit comparable. 

[hot enough]

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

Drivel. The West supports lots of unsavoury governments around the world.

Again, drivel. The situations are not the least bit comparable. 

And you never say anything about that yet you like to pass yourself off as a moral individual.

 

Quote

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/16/is-israel-an-apartheid-state-this-u-n-report-says-yes/?utm_term=.fbfe10dbfa30

 

Titled, “Israeli Practices Toward the Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid,” the report was written by Richard Falk, a former U.N. special rapporteur to the Palestinian territories known for harsh criticisms of both Israel and the United States, and Virginia Tilley, professor of political science at Southern Illinois University.

The two concluded that Israel has established an apartheid regime aimed at dominating the Palestinians. Their recommendations include reviving the U.N. Center Against Apartheid, which closed in 1994 after South Africa ended its apartheid practices. The report also urges support for a boycott, divestment and a sanctions campaign against Israel.

Dividing the Palestinian people into four distinct groups, the authors write that although they are treated differently by Israel, they all face “the racial oppression that results from the apartheid regime.”

The first group identified is the roughly 1.7 million Palestinians who are full citizens of Israel, but who, the report found, live under “martial law” and are subjected to oppression because they are not Jewish.

The second group highlighted in the report is the estimated 300,000 Palestinians who live in East Jerusalem, a mostly Arab area. The report said these Palestinians “experience discrimination in access to education, health care, employment, residency and building rights.”

The third group includes the 4.6 million Palestinians who live in the West Bank and Gaza. In the West Bank, the Jewish residents known as settlers are governed by Israeli civil law, while Palestinians live under military rule.

“This dual legal system, problematic in itself, is indicative of an apartheid regime,” said the authors.

The last group discussed in the report are the millions of Palestinian refugees who live outside Israeli territory and who are prohibited from returning to their homes in Israel or the occupied Palestinian territory.

“Israel defends its rejection of the Palestinians’ return in frankly racist language: alleging that Palestinians constitute a 'demographic threat' and that their return would alter the demographic character of Israel to the point of eliminating it as a Jewish state,” wrote Falk and Tilley.

The report also attempts to refute Israeli explanations as to why this situation exists, namely its claims that Israel has the right to remain a Jewish state or that Israel does not owe Palestinian noncitizens equal treatment precisely because they are not citizens. Some Israelis also claim the country's treatment of Palestinians reflects no intention to dominate, because it is a temporary situation derived from the realities of ongoing conflict and security requir

“The report shows that none of those arguments stands up to examination,” wrote the authors.